Whose program do you follow?

[Maobadger11]

I am new posting here and have tried to search for this question but haven't come up with a thread that (at least by title or what I have found) seems to answer this. And, it may be because there is no one answer. I have been struggling with some TMS symptoms since early this year. I have read a number of books (Dan Buglio, Howard Schubiner, Alan Gordon, Nicole Sachs) and have followed a number of other practitioners on-line (Jim Prussack, Tanner Murtaugh as well as a number of the previously mentioned ones). While they all seem to say they have come from Sarno, there seem to be enough differences amongst them all that it gets confusing to figure out who to follow. And/or, maybe it's a matter of personal preference.

I did try Journal Speak for sometime and it really actually just made me more depressed. I feel a number of practitioners really vary on that aspect in particular. Some use somatic tracking, others talk about going back to dig up prior emotional history, some say that's not necessary but just not to repress current emotions, etc. Some say to stop all treatment (although that is pretty consistent among most). Some stress meditation and mindfulness while others aren't quite as strong on that. Some talk about soothing self talk while others talk about firmly speaking to yourself (your brain). I'm sure I could go on as everyone here knows.

In the end, does everyone find it's just a matter of personal preference? Or, pick and choose what feels right to you? Is there any one program that most people have found beneficial? Sorry if I should have dug through more of the threads before posting! But, I know at a minimum one thing I am doing wrong is spending WAY too much time investigating and reading!! Thanks for any opinions or insights!

 

[Rabscuttle]

I dont really follow a program these days. I did a bulk of the SEP on this site, a month of journal speak, I’d say the person who gave me the most foundation was Dan Buglio, although I don’t watch his videos much these days, personally I think after a certain point consuming too much TMS content or adhering to strict rigid programs is doing more harm than good and may reinforce that there is something ‘wrong’ with us. At a certain point the training wheels need to come off. And we need to start living in spite of the symptoms. That could be jumping in the deep end or entering by the steps, but you gotta test the knowledge you’ve acquired and make adjustments as needed. Progress won’t be linear, I had 2 really good weeks a month ago, an awful week last week, and now some really good days. I responded awfully to my flare last week, but I had enough of a foundation to catch myself (After a few days lol) reground and detach from the symptoms, stop scanning/touching parts that hurt, and try to look inward about what’s actually on my mind and bothering me. Talking to myself is always helpful, at least when I’m compassionate and lifting myself up, praising what I am doing how far I’ve come, telling my brain that I’m ready to be pain free but if the pain is here so be it, I’m doing my best to live anyways.

am I where I want to be, work wise, relationship wise, pain wise? Absolutely not, but expectations and pressure are a killer, and I do my best to soften my opinions towards where I’m at and who I am. Because for much of my life (okay, all) I’ve loathed myself. I’m doing my best to change that, which is just going to take time. There are so many lessons to be learned through all this.

I think a consistent meditation practice is also super helpful, such a great skill to be able to have to push back against those thoughts telling us that everything is screwed and the future is doomed and full of pain.

 

[Saffron]

I stick with Dan. Read sarno many years ago. But badly written i thought. Done Alan. Georgie. Don't like journalling. So back to Dan. Stick with what you are comfortable with. It's an overcrowded market.

 

[Maobadger11]

I dont really follow a program these days. I did a bulk of the SEP on this site, a month of journal speak, I’d say the person who gave me the most foundation was Dan Buglio, although I don’t watch his videos much these days, personally I think after a certain point consuming too much TMS content or adhering to strict rigid programs is doing more harm than good and may reinforce that there is something ‘wrong’ with us. At a certain point the training wheels need to come off. And we need to start living in spite of the symptoms. That could be jumping in the deep end or entering by the steps, but you gotta test the knowledge you’ve acquired and make adjustments as needed. Progress won’t be linear, I had 2 really good weeks a month ago, an awful week last week, and now some really good days. I responded awfully to my flare last week, but I had enough of a foundation to catch myself (After a few days lol) reground and detach from the symptoms, stop scanning/touching parts that hurt, and try to look inward about what’s actually on my mind and bothering me. Talking to myself is always helpful, at least when I’m compassionate and lifting myself up, praising what I am doing how far I’ve come, telling my brain that I’m ready to be pain free but if the pain is here so be it, I’m doing my best to live anyways.

am I where I want to be, work wise, relationship wise, pain wise? Absolutely not, but expectations and pressure are a killer, and I do my best to soften my opinions towards where I’m at and who I am. Because for much of my life (okay, all) I’ve loathed myself. I’m doing my best to change that, which is just going to take time. There are so many lessons to be learned through all this.

I think a consistent meditation practice is also super helpful, such a great skill to be able to have to push back against those thoughts telling us that everything is screwed and the future is doomed and full of pain.

Thank you. This is very helpful and some great perspective. And you are right about living regardless of symptoms as I can tell already I have spent too much time researching (as we perfectionists do) which just makes it worse - I can tell it heightens my anxiety which is the last thing I need! I like the parts about being compassionate as I know that is one area I need to focus on as well as the other messaging. I hope you continue to do well on your healing path and take your messages about being compassionate to yourself to heart!

 

[Maobadger11]

I stick with Dan. Read sarno many years ago. But badly written i thought. Done Alan. Georgie. Don't like journalling. So back to Dan. Stick with what you are comfortable with. It's an overcrowded market.

I agree the market is very overcrowded which is where it gets overewhelming. Dan's messaging is really the easiest to grasp as I get overwhelmed by some of the others' practices. Thanks for your response!

 

[Cactusflower]

I follow Sarno - but used elements of Gordon, a lot of Schubiner and also the mindset work of Hanscom. I don't much like journaling either but I do it when I need it. Sometimes you need to be uncomfortable for awhile to do the work Sarno sets out for us.

 

[Maobadger11]

I follow Sarno - but used elements of Gordon, a lot of Schubiner and also the mindset work of Hanscom. I don't much like journaling either but I do it when I need it. Sometimes you need to be uncomfortable for awhile to do the work Sarno sets out for us.

What particular aspects of Sarno do you most follow? Do you do much emotional work as it relates to the repressed anger or other emotions?

 

[Cactusflower]

What particular aspects of Sarno do you most follow? Do you do much emotional work as it relates to the repressed anger or other emotions?

Yes. I believe doing the emotional work is essential - allowing us to accept the hidden rage we seem to deny or refuse to reflect upon as a possibility in our psyche.

 

[Diana-M]

Hi, @Maobadger11

I haven’t healed yet, so I’m not really the best person to answer you, but I’ll tell you what I know.

Sarno lays out the original concept of MindBody work. Everybody needs to know about his teachings, because he’s the foundation. Some people on this forum have healed within weeks by just reading Sarno’s books intensely and repeatedly, and doing what he says. But there are lots of people (like me) who have worked hard at what Sarno taught (I even got psychotherapy, like he suggested for stubborn cases), but still I’m not healed. No one can say why Sarno works for some and not others, because everyone’s past is different. Sarno said most TMS stems from childhood abuse. But many people have that hidden so deeply in their subconscious, they may never know.

There are newer methods, based on more scientific data than Sarno had 20 years ago (Alan Gordon is one), and some people get healed from that. In fact, there was a recent study that showed it was quite successful. Some people who heal from Sarno think that study is invalid and that method is “warm and fuzzy” and doesn’t work. But there is real data to prove it does. It’s controversial on this forum, for some reason.

For me, I healed from Sarno one time (a previous TMS episode I had, and my first exposure to Sarno). But this time, the only relief I’ve gotten at all in my condition is from what Gordon teaches. Particularly, this book, based on Gordon’s teachings, has helped me the most:

The Pain Reprocessing Therapy Workbook, by Vanessa Blackstone and Olivia Sonaiko.

People like to say this is a journey. From what I can tell, most people go on a quest to find what works best for them. Often it’s a combination of many things. It is a lot to work through, but pain motivates.

Here’s a recent debate on this question. https://www.tmswiki.org/forum/threads/how-far-we-have-gotten-from-sarno.30395/

I hope this helps. Good luck!

 

[BloodMoon]

Hi @Maobadger11,

In case it's of any interest to you I recently put together a daily plan and a weekly rotation plan for those who might want to cover most mind/body approach bases: https://www.tmswiki.org/forum/threa...to-cover-most-mind-body-approach-bases.30322/

My personal progress up to now (from being bedridden for a total of more than 18 months and housebound for many years to functioning really well by comparison) has involved these main things...

• Getting back to normal life, doing things as best I can, despite the symptoms (I have done this very very gradually by taking 'baby steps' and I continue to stick to that approach).
• Exercise/movement, despite the symptoms (e.g. when I started exercising I could only very slowly walk on the spot for circa 5 minutes and now I do 2 sessions a day of standing exercises lasting at least 35 minutes per session, whilst watching TV).
• Writing 'unsent letters' to people who piss me off and to those who have pissed me off in the past (I've done some other anger 'journaling' of various kinds but I don't know that that really helped me, so I don't do it now).
• Talking to my brain; in my case telling my brain in response to symptoms, e.g. "don't be bloody ridiculous!" or "you're being bloody stupid/ridiculous!" etc. (I experimented with what I said to my brain to include the intonation etc., to find exactly what my particular brain responds to.)
• Self-soothing... soothing, calming and slowing things down, e.g. by lengthening my out breaths.
• 'Setting the tone for the day' with visualising something positive (e.g. a beautiful, safe place) when I awake in the mornings and also 'setting an intention for the day', to approach things calmly or whatever (as I have always tended to awaken with troubling thoughts of doom and gloom).
• 'Somatic tracking'.

I haven't analysed it before now but, as you can see from the above, essentially I practise some Sarno but 'in the slow lane' (by that I mean that I haven't been able to push hard through symptoms as doing that caused my return to being bedridden, so, as previously mentioned, I've needed to endeavour to return to normal living gradually, by taking 'baby steps' instead).

However, I also practise 'somatic tracking', 'setting the tone for the day' and 'setting an intention for the day' as I do believe that my brain is generally fearful and my nervous system responses heightened/(temporarily) dysfunctional, and that in doing the things I am doing I am gradually reprogramming my brain through neuroplasticity.

Whatever path you take/method you use, I believe the key thing is believing that the symptoms are being created by the brain and that the brain can cause all manner of kinds of different symptoms and that those symptoms are not due to structural abnormalities ------ whether the brain does this because you are angry/rageful and it wants to protect you from experiencing and expressing that anger/rage because it considers it too 'dangerous' for you to do so.... and/or the brain is generally fearful and on high alert for danger ------ (I believe both scenarios have been at play with me).

It's ingrained, so the brain is liable to fight against us believing that the symptoms are being created by it, and to be 'sneaky' about it, so I have found that you need to have your wits about you so that you can nip any "thinking structural" thoughts in the bud.

Hope something I've said helps. Wishing you all the best.

P.S. The 'somatic tracking' I do these days is from the book that @Diana-M mentions above, i.e. The Pain Reprocessing Therapy Workbook, by Vanessa Blackstone and Olivia Sonaiko.

 

[Ellen]

But, I know at a minimum one thing I am doing wrong is spending WAY too much time investigating and reading!!

This is a wise insight. It can be a avoidance technique. This is why I always recommend that people just pick a program and follow it daily, spending about an hour a day. Add some reading about TMS and success stories, but don't go overboard. It's important to live your life and not make it about TMS. If at the end of your chosen program you still have TMS symptoms, pick another program and complete it. Or start a program you liked over again. It's the daily commitment and education that will get you to recovery. If you find yourself avoiding some techniques, lean into those, as it is often a sign of wanting to protect yourself from uncomfortable truths.

 

[Rusty Red]

You're going to get so much variation here in responses it may seem overwhelming. I'm fascinated by the neuroscience but tend to lean more into the Sarno aspects. As previously mentioned, pick one and see how it goes. You may end up finding aspects from various programs that work. Good luck!

 

[hmb]

Agree w/ you wholeheartedly on too much reading/investigating. It’s a tough balance with mind body work. I healed roughly 80% using Gordon’s book. However, I didn’t ever dive into the emotional (“repressed”) side of things and I’ve recently relapsed and it’s worse than before. Unsurprisingly, addressing the emotional underpinnings seem crucial to stave away TMS relapses. This time around I’m combining Gordon (specifically the Curable app), Buglio, and elements of Sarno. IMO, Sarno is harder to digest for me, particularly since I struggle with identifying my rage/anything repressed but I (and you) would be hugely remiss to exclude that work

 

[Maobadger11]

Hi @Maobadger11,

In case it's of any interest to you I recently put together a daily plan and a weekly rotation plan for those who might want to cover most mind/body approach bases: https://www.tmswiki.org/forum/threa...to-cover-most-mind-body-approach-bases.30322/

My personal progress up to now (from being bedridden for a total of more than 18 months and housebound for many years to functioning really well by comparison) has involved these main things...

• Getting back to normal life, doing things as best I can, despite the symptoms (I have done this very very gradually by taking 'baby steps' and I continue to stick to that approach).
• Exercise/movement, despite the symptoms (e.g. when I started exercising I could only very slowly walk on the spot for circa 5 minutes and now I do 2 sessions a day of standing exercises lasting at least 35 minutes per session, whilst watching TV).
• Writing 'unsent letters' to people who piss me off and to those who have pissed me off in the past (I've done some other anger 'journaling' of various kinds but I don't know that that really helped me, so I don't do it now).
• Talking to my brain; in my case telling my brain in response to symptoms, e.g. "don't be bloody ridiculous!" or "you're being bloody stupid/ridiculous!" etc. (I experimented with what I said to my brain to include the intonation etc., to find exactly what my particular brain responds to.)
• Self-soothing... soothing, calming and slowing things down, e.g. by lengthening my out breaths.
• 'Setting the tone for the day' with visualising something positive (e.g. a beautiful, safe place) when I awake in the mornings and also 'setting an intention for the day', to approach things calmly or whatever (as I have always tended to awaken with troubling thoughts of doom and gloom).
• 'Somatic tracking'.

I haven't analysed it before now but, as you can see from the above, essentially I practise some Sarno but 'in the slow lane' (by that I mean that I haven't been able to push hard through symptoms as doing that caused my return to being bedridden, so, as previously mentioned, I've needed to endeavour to return to normal living gradually, by taking 'baby steps' instead).

However, I also practise 'somatic tracking', 'setting the tone for the day' and 'setting an intention for the day' as I do believe that my brain is generally fearful and my nervous system responses heightened/(temporarily) dysfunctional, and that in doing the things I am doing I am gradually reprogramming my brain through neuroplasticity.

Whatever path you take/method you use, I believe the key thing is believing that the symptoms are being created by the brain and that the brain can cause all manner of kinds of different symptoms and that those symptoms are not due to structural abnormalities ------ whether the brain does this because you are angry/rageful and it wants to protect you from experiencing and expressing that anger/rage because it considers it too 'dangerous' for you to do so.... and/or the brain is generally fearful and on high alert for danger ------ (I believe both scenarios have been at play with me).

It's ingrained, so the brain is liable to fight against us believing that the symptoms are being created by it, and to be 'sneaky' about it, so I have found that you need to have your wits about you so that you can nip any "thinking structural" thoughts in the bud.

Hope something I've said helps. Wishing you all the best.

P.S. The 'somatic tracking' I do these days is from the book that @Diana-M mentions above, i.e. The Pain Reprocessing Therapy Workbook, by Vanessa Blackstone and Olivia Sonaiko.

Thanks for the detail! I feel I am doing a fair amount of what you outlined but really like the setting the tone for the day and visualizing. I am using the Pain Reprocessing Workbook and working with a pain reprocessing therapist as well. He has started with me on talking to my brain as well (similar to what’s in the pain reprocessing therapy workbook). I as well have done unsent letters. I have tried anger journaling and didn’t find that personally beneficial either. I’ll keep plugging away! Thanks again for your insights!