Weird question ... almost there ... help!

[hodini]

Hi Steve,

Sounds like you might be TT's doubles partner. I am surprised you had never heard of the term "nerve tension", more commonly known as Neural Tension. It has only been around for a century or so. Prior to the many imaging machines we have today, studies were mostly done on cadavers. This leaves little doubt as to the physicality of the issue. Below are just a few papers delineating its meaning, and debating causes, testing, and modalities of healing and their efficacy over a period of time. As Sarno asked of his colleagues, to criticizes his work at will, validate it at will, but do anything but ignore it.

dune.une.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1007&context=pt_studcrpaper


http://ac.els-cdn.com/S0004951414605110/1-s2.0-S0004951414605110-main.pdf?_tid=05a0d044-879d-11e7-816e-00000aab0f6c&acdnat=1503449593_dbb0892f843640505b5b1266f8a75f7f (Adverse Mechanical Tension in the Nervous System: A Model for Assessment and Treatment - ScienceDirect)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2582423/ (Upper Limb Neural Tension and Seated Slump Tests: The False Positive Rate among Healthy Young Adults without Cervical or Lumbar Symptoms)


http://aaompt.org/aaompt_data/docum...rodynamic_Testing_and_Treatment-Shacklock.pdf

https://www.omicsonline.org/open-ac...nd-hip-flexor-muscle-length-2165-7025-244.pdf

http://www.ijramr.com/sites/default/files/issues-pdf/124.pdf

https://yogasynergy.com/blog/nerve-tensioning-lengthening-and-untangling-nerves-to-improve-their-function/ (Benefits of Lengthening and Untangling Nerves - Yoga Synergy)

https://musculoskeletalkey.com/neurodynamic-mobility-and-mobilizations/ (Neurodynamic Mobility and Mobilizations | Musculoskeletal Key)




Being an amateur magician, I recognize the subtle linguistic attempt of slight of hand as below;

"I was involved in many early pain forums in the 90s. But I can see clearly now that my goal was never to heal my pain, it was all about loneliness, and connecting with others who felt the same. Almost all the questions at this site are answered in the many TMS books, but people by their nature need to feel connected and safe and heard by others who are going through the same thing."

While a truth for yourself which I do not question, in the second sentence you link it to everyone "people".
Most likely a half truth. Many of those I have found here while certainly by nature as you said want to connect and feel safe, does not speak to their loneliness necessarily. All of that I see for many as being secondary. Many here have come to gain information as their primary goal. To suggest otherwise does them a disservice in MHO.

"The good doctor knew this early on when he started his panels. But there is also a down side to it, as he soon learned. Sufferers can lose sight of the goal which is to feel better because they get locked in the minutia of "trying to heal" which is the #1 reason they can't get better. IOW, they are TMSing in their obsession to heal. I believe this is because they don't understand TMS at the deeper level. Once they do understand, they stop trying and they heal. But in the interim they need to ask, learn, talk, and satisfy their mind. It's a fundamental step in the process. Knowledge leads to wisdom, and then love. Love is the only answer but it is invariably preceded by knowledge. "

Here, you appear to be speaking for Sarno, but then you slide subtly into your own views. Please correct me if I am wrong, but I do not recall Sarno speaking of sufferers "...obsessing to heal". Those types of emotionally laden words usually catch my attention as they have now.

What I see as potentially more detrimental is your creating out of the fabric woven of a variety of suffering two distinctly separate suits, one made of silk and the other common cloth.

An "us" and "them". mentality as I pointed out to TT on another thread. The us in this case being you un-suffering because you "get it" and those caught up in thier misunderstanding and not being privileged as yet to seeing the "light" you are shining.

Plain and simple, you are blaming the victims of the suffering.

 

[Ewok]

@hodini ,

May I ask what exactly is your purpose in visiting the TMSWiki website?

You have stated in other threads that you don't have TMS and you seem to spend most of your time trying to discredit it through polite but calculated questioning.

If you don't have TMS and you don't believe in TMS, then why are you here?

 

[hodini]

@Ewok,
Hi Ewok,
TT asked me a similar question on the thread "Is TMS an Incurable disease" , I tried to put the link here but I am having trouble navigating the site due to downloading issues. You will find my answers to your questions there. Please feel free to PM me if you have any more questions in that regard.

 

[stradivarius]

Thank you Un0wut2du for telling us about your success. Particularly interested to hear about your numb arms as I have a nerve thing happening in my arms and legs. Have you posted in the success forum?

 

[Click#7]

TMS produces real physiological changes in the body, grinding, cracking, popping, burning, swelling, numbing, etc., but the problem is not from the body. The symptom is only the effect of a deeper need that is not currently being filled. As long as you obsess on what your body is doing your symptoms will continue. Your brain's intent is to create something that you might believe is "real" hoping you obsess on it, in OCD fashion. If you obsess then your brain has done its job nicely. This is called TMSing. The more you talk about what your body is doing, and think about it and pay attention to the details of the sensations the better job your brain is doing in keeping you running away from the true cause.

The brain is good at its job too, it will create something that feels structural. If you don't believe the symptom is structural then your brain will alter the symptom/sensation to make it feel more structural in order to keep you obsessed. So as you go back and forth trying to decide if this or that is real/structural your brain has done its job in keeping you preoccupied with your body and away from what's bothering you, which is fear of course.

SteveO

Steve...when you were in such severe pain that it was almost impossible to think psychological vs. physical what did you do to overcome it ? I read the part in your book about sitting and how you got over that which was great, but you must have had more back pain even after you finally jumped that hurdle. I am finally able to sit for at least an hour....but when I am in so much pain otherwise it is difficult to focus on psychological issues. My lower back and and hip is giving me fits. It's crazy how the mind works. Giving me some relief, but not all the way to home plate.

 

[karinabrown]

Hi,

I think here'a a fine example of why communication is so important, or is it just me ? At : Hodini : read these articles you put in your post but seems to me its not what the post was about !
You are talking about range of motion in muscles/ nerves as PT's sometimes test ? Which in my opinion says nothing at all by the way ! This
Neural tension ' in these articles and what was mentioned in post here are not the same.

I think nervepain and tension in nerves as mentioned here on this wiki is one and the same. Range of motion is something else. Example ? I had severe shoulder nerve / muscle (they are related ) and stiffness while according to the PT i had a normal range of motion in that shoulder.
(When a PT did the tests : not when i did them on my own, i hardly could use that arm or shoulder )

So Hodini : i feel you are comparing different things. From a PT's point of vieuw it seems to me. And i guess a whole lot of members here tried that path and found no cure.

But really how we call it is one thing how we get better is the more interesting part. The tms path for many here i hope

Karina

 

[hodini]

Hi Karina,

I do agree that many of the examples cam from the PT area, more specifically England or Australia. Both countries are more accepting of mind body issues, especially Australia. If you went beyond the abstracts in a couple of the studies they describe autopsies in which nerves were found to be entrapped, unfortunately, imaging still does not show this as far as I know.

Perhaps because I did not mention any of my unsatisfactory experiences with PT's I gave a misimpression. I had been through many of those experiences. When I finally found one I trusted and they "got" me as far as working together as a team was when I saw the most improvement. So I can totally understand how one could be disillusioned from being treated by PT's, etc. It is difficult in todays times to find a medical professional that helps to make one feel included in their healing. If I do not find that in a doctor right off when I interview them they are out of the running. Not an easy process, but it has yielded rewards for me. That people have found relieve through TMS recovery methods is great. Feeling better is a good thing! I am pro- placebo, pro suggestion as mind body techniques. However, I feel that there are ways to improve on informing one on the dynamics that are at work without diminishing the results.

 

[karinabrown]

Hi Hodini,

Well the dynamics as you call it are clear i think here on the tmswiki and in the books about tms.
What to think of it and do with it : is up to us. I am not anti PT : but when i did : the explaining the dynamics part' there is not really good i thought. They hardly agree on stuff most the time.
Reminds me of my old family doctor i once saw with the flue : i was complaning about not being able to go to work etc (i was young at that time ..) and he said to me : if i give you some pills it will last 7 days. But : if i send you home to get well natureally it will take a week .. Lol
that for most stuff my feeling with PT too, exept the '7 days part'

Have a question for you : just cause i am curious by nature : read some of your posts: and you mentioned you do not have pain, but visit this wiki just in case you once would have chronic pain ?
That is remarkeble to say the least.
Like i would go to a wiki for blind people when i can see just fine, just in case one day i would be blind ...
are you that scared ? And why ? Care to explain? Not to judge at all just interesed, i am pretty fearfull myself too.

Greetings
Karina

 

[hodini]

Hi Karina,

I will try and keep this short. Not because your questions and viewpoints do not deserve more but because this thread was started by Stephanie who was having issues. I was the one which initially took the thread sort of off topic so it is not your fault. I did so because I felt based on my perception of Stephanie and others who addressed her problems in a sincere and compassionate manner, Steve came in in what I consider to be an abusive and insensitive way . I find it so especially because he presents with a title of TMS consultant. I simply felt it necessary to call itlike I saw it.

That said, when I say that I need to find a medical professional who will be on my team, I do not mean one who will yes me to death. The opposite. Just because someone is a doctor, lawyer, accountant, specialist, does not mean they have to be yessed to death either. I appreciate someone who will tell me what I do not want to hear in that respect. I do not expect to agree with them all the time, the iportant thing is a communication which leads to a common direction. That also means I expect the possibility of them saying "I think you might be better off seeing someone else" at some point if our differenceces cannot be overcome.

Funny you should mention that about the blind people, I am legally blind without my glasses, since I knew that as a child, I often practiced moving around with my eyes closed; maybe I am just weird. Perhaps it was out of some sort of fear though I do not recall it as such, for me it is more like wanting to know what it would be like so I am better prepared to deal with it.

As I age, of course I expect to have my share of aches and pains. Seeing and hearing how others cope with it is helpful. That was not my original purpose for coming on the site, I have answered that in other places and if you don't feel like reading through my sometimes lengthy posts feel free to PM me and I will elaborate.

I hope that the thread can get back to Stephanies issues and I am sorry if I lead to the distraction in the thread but I could not stand by when I see clearly abusive behavior from one in "authority" any more then I would stand by and do nothing if I see a child being abused. Blaming the victim is never an acceptable practice, especially when it comes from those who put themselves forth as a protector.

 

[karinabrown]

Hi Hodini,

Don't know how blind 'without glasses' is the same as blind, i thought that was 'needing glasses' maybe because of english not being my own language i miss something there ?

The comment about Steve : i do not agree and don't understand. Will leave it up to him...

You are right about this being Stephany's topic and it should go back to that !

Karina

 

[karinabrown]

Hi Stephanie ,

So back to the topic !
You wonder if its tms or damage ?
I can relate to that : my story is different but filled with same issues ,
I had buttock and leg and footpain for years : they called it sciatica , priformispain etc etc : i was sure something was injured
Now 5 years later i have some footpain : now i am sure its not related to the buttpain : but that was my thought for 3 years. All the pt etc made it worse.
When i stopped that streching which a smart man told me was better : and started being more active slowly : this all went better
My leg is better now. The last part is my foot. So like you strugle with the last part. Trying to focus on stress reduction : so focus on my feelings instead of the structural stuff
The best thing that helped me was : no more streching, bit of bicycle, walking slowing building up strengh and trying get back to life and joy
Maybe the last part will leave on its own !
Greetings
Karina

 

[Ewok]

@Ewok,
Hi Ewok,
TT asked me a similar question on the thread "Is TMS an Incurable disease" , I tried to put the link here but I am having trouble navigating the site due to downloading issues. You will find my answers to your questions there. Please feel free to PM me if you have any more questions in that regard.

I read that thread and find your explanation quite odd. I genuinely hope you find the connection are looking for.

 

[Tennis Tom]

TMS produces real physiological changes in the body, grinding, cracking, popping, burning, swelling, numbing, etc., but the problem is not from the body. The symptom is only the effect of a deeper need that is not currently being filled. As long as you obsess on what your body is doing your symptoms will continue. Your brain's intent is to create something that you might believe is "real" hoping you obsess on it, in OCD fashion. If you obsess then your brain has done its job nicely. This is called TMSing. The more you talk about what your body is doing, and think about it and pay attention to the details of the sensations the better job your brain is doing in keeping you running away from the true cause.

The brain is good at its job too, it will create something that feels structural. If you don't believe the symptom is structural then your brain will alter the symptom/sensation to make it feel more structural in order to keep you obsessed. So as you go back and forth trying to decide if this or that is real/structural your brain has done its job in keeping you preoccupied with your body and away from what's bothering you, which is fear of course.

SteveO

Hi Hodini,

Is this the post by SteveO that you referred to? If so, please point out his words that you feel were abusive and insensitive.

 

[Tennis Tom]

Funny you should mention that about the blind people, I am legally blind without my glasses, since I knew that as a child,

Hi Hodini,

I assume you are familiar with the many mindbody modalities that deal with eye-sight--vision/VISION, such as by Dr. Roberto Michael Kaplan, who is a world renowned authority on the eyes and their interactions with the brain. There are some other vision/VISION practitioners who've made tapes for eye therapy who were legally blind and regained their eyesight. And, of course the founder of modern eye therapy, Dr. Bates.

Here's a thread from a quick search I did at this site about Dr. Kaplan and vision/VISION hope it's of some use to you, although I assume you've already explored this area :

http://www.tmswiki.org/forum/threads/vision-eyesight-improvement.5746/ (Vision - eyesight improvement)

 

[Stephanie71]

Thanks to everyone's replies and feedback on this forum - especially Steve. I am still struggling at times but gaining more perspective and exercising daily anyway, even though there is always some degree of discomfort/pain/symptoms. There was a period in my life in my mid-twenties where I still had all the pain and symptoms in my left leg but I never really thought about it or obsessed about it or feared it - I was just living. I am wondering if that is about as good as it gets. Because I notice I have become sort of obsessed again with having what I envision is a "perfectly-healed" body that never went through chronic pain in the first place, no clicking knee, no strange nerve symptoms and all these things that I still sometimes think are "structural." I think I need to let go of this idea. The truth is, I can live with the pain and strange symptoms, I think - what I can't live with is the fear/anger/self-pity/depression/terror/hopeless/guilt feelings around the pain or the fear/anger that there is something wrong with my body. Those are the feelings that make me feel like I'm a "freak," like I did something wrong to cause all this pain, like my life is forever doomed because of it... it's dark in there. So I am really trying to work with all of that.
I do think I have some kind of nerve damage or something in my left leg, either on the sciatic or peroneal nerve, because there is constant tingling when I touch nerve below knee or around outer ankle (I always feel it when I shave) and even when I am not at all focused on the pain, when I am lying in bed with my boyfriend and he brushes my leg I feel the tingly nerve stuff on my lower left leg, and my left foot/leg feels weird compared to my right - and it scares me, but I think it might just be what it is. The thought of going back to doctors and getting tests or possibly surgery just seems too overwhelming.
Is part of TMS recovery for some just learning to live with it, knowing it might be there forever?

 

[Tennis Tom]

there is constant tingling when I touch nerve below knee or around outer ankle

I feel the tingly nerve stuff on my lower left leg, and my left foot/leg feels weird compared to my right - and it scares me,

Please do a "SEARCH" here for "tingling" and you will find many, many threads and citations for it--it definitely can be a TMS symptom--I've had it too and it went away--no reason for you to be in fear of it--that's the TMS gremlin doing it's job of trying to PROTECT you.

Is part of TMS recovery for some just learning to live with it, knowing it might be there forever?

YES! It can be a first big plateau leading to the pain disappearing--in TMS lingo : "ACCEPTANCE"--"Pain is temporary--suffering is optional"--as they say around the ashram--or, is it the other way around?--I'm having a tms/memory moment.

 

[Tennis Tom]

I felt based on my perception of Stephanie and others who addressed her problems in a sincere and compassionate manner, Steve came in in what I consider to be an abusive and insensitive way . I find it so especially because he presents with a title of TMS consultant. I simply felt it necessary to call itlike I saw it.

Thanks to everyone's replies and feedback on this forum - especially Steve.

I have read SteveO's replies to Stephanie and do not see in them what Hodini did. SteveO gave a reply consistent with TMS theory, the OP Stephanie, was helped by it and did not take offense to its content or tone. No offense to anyone, I think it's just a TMS theory misunderstanding, which is quite common in this sometimes ethereal gray matter environment-- SteveO himself admits to having thrown his Sarno across the room the first time he opened it.

 

[karinabrown]

Because I notice I have become sort of obsessed again with having what I envision is a "perfectly-healed" body that never went through chronic pain in the first place,


The truth is, I can live with the pain and strange symptoms, I think - what I can't live with is the fear/anger/self-pity/depression/terror/hopeless/guilt feelings around the pain or the fear/anger that there is something wrong with my body


The thought of going back to doctors and getting tests or possibly surgery just seems too overwhelming.
Is part of TMS recovery for some just learning to live with it, knowing it might be there forever?

I could have written all of this myself !
Lately wondering if i better start to accept these facts for all of my life and stop all this trying and working on improving

 

[Steve Ozanich]

Stephanie it looks like classic TMS. Remember not to put the cart in front of the horse (assuming you have a horse). The anxiety and depression are causing the physical sensations and so they are the only thing to deal with. Also, you believe that you have nerve damage which is problematic. I had that same tingling sensation for years and a paralyzed leg but there was no damage; it was all TMS. Besides, nerves that are outside the skull and spine regenerate themselves, even if there was damage (which there is not) it would heal.

Never believe you have to live with pain or symptoms. If you do that then you create that particular reality. Also in GPD I said on the last page that this can all be summed up into one word, "guilt." So when you say you think you may have done something wrong to cause your pain you fall into your brain's scheme of diversion. You haven't done anything wrong except doubt in yourself.

Watch the TMS Healing Wall of Victory, each of those people was in very poor shape and are doing well now. You have to see yourself as healed before you can heal. The information is out there to re-balance again, read it, watch it, listen to it... then let it all go.

Rest easy,
SteveO