Update: Labrum tear

[Jules]

So, a little while back I posted on here about shoulder pain in my left that has been bothering me for the last couple of months, with pain and popping sensations and not being able to lift my arm above my head or behind my back. I went to my massage therapist yesterday ( Who is also an R.N.) and she could feel all the inflammation in my rotator cuff and suggested I had a labrum tear from a few months back when my dog pulled on his leash hard, pulling my shoulder. I basically have just been doing the ice and ibuprofen and just trying to keep my shoulder immobilized.

Since I know that this isn't specifically mind-body, I still have a question about the exasperation of symptoms. For instance, a couple weeks ago I went to San Francisco with my husband and daughter and walked 4 miles a day even with the shoulder pain. I tried to distract myself enjoying the sights, but when I came back home, the pain seemed to increase again, even though I am also walking on the treadmill every other day for 25 minutes. So, my question is, have any of you dealt with an injury such aa a labrum tear or anything pathological, and yet been able to heal it emotionally or at least help the symptoms come down? I feel TMS has used that area now, even though I know it takes time for the tear to heal completely, it is distracting me from stressful emotions. In particular last night, my daughter-in-law's mother posted on Facebook about us needing a whooping cough vaccination before my granddaughter is born in a couple weeks, which invited her friends to talk about vaccinations and how they're poison to the body, etc. etc. My son commented that they were going to be vaccinating their little girl and that it's safe and it's saved millions of children. My daughter-in-law's mother went on a rampage against him, which raised my hackles, being his mother. Anyway, it really got me churned up inside to where I was hurting worse and I was nauseous, because I was so worked up. Also, it didn't help that I probably need more physical therapy and possibly even surgery if the tear doesn't heal. Irregardless, it is still going to take 5 to 6 months to heal, which of course is very upsetting.

So, any suggestions or advice would be helpful at this time. My doctor suggested an MRI, but I do know if it is a tear there's nothing they can do except for physical therapy, ice, anti-inflammatories, and immobilization to help it heal.

TIA.

 

[Steve Ozanich]

We are not that frail that a dog pulling on a leash could hurt us. It was more likely a trigger for TMS to come pouring out. That's a pretty good massage therapist to feel swelling, or a tear. This is why we advocate "silent massages."

Just know that labrum tears are one of the most misdiagnosed causes of pain. Everyone has those tears and meniscus tears, arthritis, etc. An injury will of course heal quickly, it shouldn't go on for months. You need to raise all the red flags for TMS in order march toward victory. Sp piece it all together to see the entire puzzle.

SO

 

[Jules]

Thank you for letting me know, I just want to scream right now. This is so frustrating and it is going on 20 years off and on in trying to deal with TMS and not getting well. This is also my third round of working with TMS healing, in the last 4 1/2 years. I am doing everything that every book that I have ever read has said to do. I have been in therapy for the last 2 years plus in fact, and I have been journaling, have been talking to myself, and have been meditating and just going on, doing things, despite the pain.

I don't know what else to do at this point. This pain has totally incapacitated me and every time that I move my arm. it pops. How can TMS cause a physical popping sensation and extreme pain afterwords, if there is no injury? I mean, I can't even reach my arm around in back or raise my arm above my head.

 

[Steve Ozanich]

If you got the list of mistakes in healing from TMS on my website you would know that trying to heal is the #1 mistake made in recovery. It looks to me like you're trying. Also, you cannot check off everything in my Appendix B and still be in pain, it's not possible. You can't heal by intellect alone, just as man cannot live by bread alone.

My shoulders were locked in pain so bad that I had to have people feed me, and yet it was TMS. The brain is powerful, and you can reverse the need if you have the correct information. But you can't get to the right destination on the wrong path. If you've read all the books out there then you are confused because they sometimes say different things. Your brain wants you to think there is an injury, that's its intent. Then the hidden can remain as hidden. Take a look at the emoticons you just used here. They tell the story of you. You are not angry because of your pain, you are in pain because you are angry. Cart before horse Jules.

Work on your heart not your head.

SteveO

 

[Jules]

That's just it, I don't know why I'm angry. Going to my therapist, we worked out my anger issues, and pain went away but then it moved to the other side. I'm trying to figure out what is causing it. The only thing I can think of is my granddaughter will be born in two weeks and I'm a little nervous about that, but I really don't have a ton of stress. I'm an empty-nester, so it's just me and my dog at home all day because I don't have a job.

I really have to say I'm angry at my brain for protecting me for so long, and then not listening to me when I'm trying to tell it I don't need protection. That is the source of where my anger is coming from right now. Not being able to use my left arm, having it pop if I move wrong, which is excruciatingly painful, and I have to rely on my husband to pick up groceries or other heavy objects for me, is angering.

I just feel like I'm at an impasses, and if I'm not trying to get well, then why am I doing all this emotional work?

 

[MWsunin12]

That's just it, I don't know why I'm angry. Going to my therapist, we worked out my anger issues, and pain went away but then it moved to the other side. I'm trying to figure out what is causing it. The only thing I can think of is my granddaughter will be born in two weeks and I'm a little nervous about that, but I really don't have a ton of stress. I'm an empty-nester, so it's just me and my dog at home all day because I don't have a job.

I really have to say I'm angry at my brain for protecting me for so long, and then not listening to me when I'm trying to tell it I don't need protection. That is the source of where my anger is coming from right now. Not being able to use my left arm, having it pop if I move wrong, which is excruciatingly painful, and I have to rely on my husband to pick up groceries or other heavy objects for me, is angering.

I just feel like I'm at an impasses, and if I'm not trying to get well, then why am I doing all this emotional work?

I often feel that "impasse," Jules. I feel like I do one symptom Imperative after another. And, each time I have to talk myself into remembering that it's nothing. I don't think you have to be under tremendous stress. I think, for myself, it's a mourning of missed opportunities from having pain issues and mostly FEAR issues for so long. It's a decades long habit for me.

In light of the neuropaths in our brains, the "trying" only paves the neuropathway of pain one more time. I think that's what Sarno and SteveO mean about ignoring it all, truly NOT checking in with the pain, and going on about the day. It's not easy, but it's the only way to change the course of our brains which are creating the pain.

Maybe stop doing "the work" of it all. Seek pleasure instead.

I have to remind myself of this ALL the time. I believe we can change.

Marcia

 

[Jules]

True, thanks. For me, the symptom imperative is constantly at work and it seems as if the pain moving to another location gets worse, if you understand my meaning. For many years, it would move, almost on a daily basis, but now, it hits one place and stays there for months; and this time, these places are new. I had never had shoulder, arm, or wrist pain, with numbness and tingling, until just a few years ago, which has switched from the right to now its to the left. The pain has been about and 8 or 9' at its worst and my arm pops. When that happens, I can barely move it, especially to move it over my head or behind my back.

My massage therapist thinks its a tear, which of course scared me. At this point, I can't sleep on it and I have to be very careful how I move it so it doesn't pop.

Its very frustrating.

 

[plum]

That's just it, I don't know why I'm angry. Going to my therapist, we worked out my anger issues, and pain went away but then it moved to the other side. I'm trying to figure out what is causing it. The only thing I can think of is my granddaughter will be born in two weeks and I'm a little nervous about that, but I really don't have a ton of stress. I'm an empty-nester, so it's just me and my dog at home all day because I don't have a job.

I really have to say I'm angry at my brain for protecting me for so long, and then not listening to me when I'm trying to tell it I don't need protection. That is the source of where my anger is coming from right now. Not being able to use my left arm, having it pop if I move wrong, which is excruciatingly painful, and I have to rely on my husband to pick up groceries or other heavy objects for me, is angering.

I just feel like I'm at an impasses, and if I'm not trying to get well, then why am I doing all this emotional work?

Jules,

I've suffered problems with my right shoulder on and off for years. At one point it even used to pop out of it's joint and it looked pretty weird. I once saw a massage therapist for a back massage and I never mentioned my shoulder but she asked me "when did you break your shoulder?". I've never experienced either accident or trauma there so talk about a nocebo!

Over the years my shoulder has improved massively. It no lingers pops out, the bone spurs have gone completely and I can mostly move it through the whole range of motion. All this without paying it much regard at all. The one boon of trigeminal neuralgia is that it monopolised my attention and other aching and sore body parts got short shrift. Says a lot about TMS and it's greed for attention.

Here are some emotional aspects I have teased out which I believe have helped (my shoulder):

*Look at where you feel you are constantly “shouldering the burden”. Are you taking on other people's problems? Do you give too much in relationships?
This breeds resentment and anger.

*Related to this, do you feel stuck in your current circumstances? Are you being too rigid in your thinking? Are you trying to control things? (Such as an unruly dog. The unconscious loves symbology and metaphor. Be curious about any apparent incident that triggers pain).

*This next one relates to a previous exchange we had on the subject of being bitchy. Are you engaging in too much negative self-talk? What do you say when you talk to yourself?

In the healing path of my background we would look to the spiritual anatomy and the chakra system. The shoulders are governed by the 4th chakra, the heart.

The sublime lesson of the heart chakra is love and the opening of your heart to receive love. Look to where you are not open to receiving. The ultimate truth that resides in the 4th chakra is Love is Divine Power.

Love, both giving and receiving. Sinking deeply into your juicy feminine nature. Celebrating beauty. These are ways of tending to the heart.

With love,

Plum x

 

[EileenS]

but I really don't have a ton of stress. I'm an empty-nester, so it's just me and my dog at home all day because I don't have a job.

That's when I often find it hardest Jules, when it's just me and my dog at home all day. The subconscious mind gives us something to do with all that free quiet time. As well, in my soul searching, I discovered this time is what caused my TMS stress. I was no longer going off to work and my pain hit me just after I saw my youngest off to university. My conscious mind (and society) tell us we should be free of stress at this time, but my subconscious mind thinks otherwise because I feel deep down that I'm "out of the game", not contributing.
I would suggest re-reading "Healing Back Pain" in that spare time.

 

[Jules]

Jules,

I've suffered problems with my right shoulder on and off for years. At one point it even used to pop out of it's joint and it looked pretty weird. I once saw a massage therapist for a back massage and I never mentioned my shoulder but she asked me "when did you break your shoulder?". I've never experienced either accident or trauma there so talk about a nocebo!

Over the years my shoulder has improved massively. It no lingers pops out, the bone spurs have gone completely and I can mostly move it through the whole range of motion. All this without paying it much regard at all. The one boon of trigeminal neuralgia is that it monopolised my attention and other aching and sore body parts got short shrift. Says a lot about TMS and it's greed for attention.

Here are some emotional aspects I have teased out which I believe have helped (my shoulder):

*Look at where you feel you are constantly “shouldering the burden”. Are you taking on other people's problems? Do you give too much in relationships?
This breeds resentment and anger.

*Related to this, do you feel stuck in your current circumstances? Are you being too rigid in your thinking? Are you trying to control things? (Such as an unruly dog. The unconscious loves symbology and metaphor. Be curious about any apparent incident that triggers pain).

*This next one relates to a previous exchange we had on the subject of being bitchy. Are you engaging in too much negative self-talk? What do you say when you talk to yourself?

In the healing path of my background we would look to the spiritual anatomy and the chakra system. The shoulders are governed by the 4th chakra, the heart.

The sublime lesson of the heart chakra is love and the opening of your heart to receive love. Look to where you are not open to receiving. The ultimate truth that resides in the 4th chakra is surrender personal will to divine will. Are you endlessly and fruitlessly trying to control life? Could you let go of the reins a bit? And then a bit more?

Surrender. Letting go. Receiving. Sinking deeply into your juicy feminine nature. Celebrating beauty. These are ways of tending to the heart.

With love,

Plum x

Thank you so much for your insight, that is really helping me see things in a different perspective. Yes, I guess you could say I've been dealing with shouldering responsibilities that I shouldn't have to shoulder anymore.

My youngest is a free spirit and she's just finishing her first year of college and is wanting to move out permanently in the summer, which of course is making it hard on me as her mother, because in a way, I don't want her to leave the nest just yet, even though she's two hours away in college eight months of the year and when she does come home for any extended period, we clash big-time.

I feel like there wasn't much time between all my kids leaving, and in fact it was within a three-year span that they all left, one right after the other. I'm very happy for them and I know that they have to forge their own way, but it leaves me stuck with no purpose. I mean my job was being their mother, and it feels like I've been in retirement, very early retirement that is.

I have not held down a job for 25 years, well actually 23 years, and I don't know how to be in society in a job. Not only that, but I've had chronic pain for the last 20 years, even though I did do everything that a mother should do, it was still within my control and I didn't have to answer to anybody. I am petrified of getting a job, mainly because the only thing I have really known is writing, and I never went to college just self-taught skills so that I could do it at home, which I've been very successful at.

I do know that something has to change though, because staying at home and just doing minimal stuff is not cutting it. I mean there's only so much housework you can do before you go crazy, or stare at the four walls, or watch Netflix. Lol.

 

[Jules]

That's when I often find it hardest Jules, when it's just me and my dog at home all day. The subconscious mind gives us something to do with all that free quiet time. As well, in my soul searching, I discovered this time is what caused my TMS stress. I was no longer going off to work and my pain hit me just after I saw my youngest off to university. My conscious mind (and society) tell us we should be free of stress at this time, but my subconscious mind thinks otherwise because I feel deep down that I'm "out of the game", not contributing.
I would suggest re-reading "Healing Back Pain" in that spare time.

Yes, being by myself sometimes is not very good, because I overthink everything and over analyze and then it triggers the pain. I notice that when I am kept busy, even challenging my pain, if you will, I do so much better. Like, a few weeks ago, me and my husband and daughter drove to California, which is about a 12+ hour trip from where I live in Utah, and I drove for three hours, which is very unusual for me.

When we were there, I barely had shoulder pain, and if I did, I either put on cream and ignored it or just set the mantras to myself over and over again, and kept myself distracted by other things. While I was there, I walked 8 1/2 miles. When I got back home again, and had nothing else to do, that's when the loneliness snuck back in and the worrying, hence the pain.

My son is going to have his first baby in a few weeks, and right now there's a big issue about immunizations, especially on my daughter-in-law's side. Her mother thinks her own two kids with autism were affected by immunizations and therefore doesn't want my son to immunize his daughter. I, of course, think it's ludicrous. Also, she will be in the delivery room because my daughter-in-law is getting induced, due to gestational diabetes. I worry that she's going to push my son away, because she is a drama queen. She has to be center of attention. I know what that's like, because my own mother did it to me and my husband, almost breaking up our marriage in the first two years we were married.

Also, and this is a big one, I left my church that I have been a member of four decades, and it really hurt my family. Because of that, my husband and I don't have that in common anymore. In fact, our marriage was done religiously, in an LDS temple, where there were serious covenants made. I lost my faith due to disturbing facts and truth about my religion, a few years ago, which gave me my first mental break down. But interestingly enough, it also freed me and because of that, took some of the pressure off of me. Of course, it ratched up my pain because of the guilt and shame I still feel.

I've been seeing a psychotherapist for the last two years, and we have uncovered some major emotional repression, which has helped, it's just not enough to do undo this cycle of conditioned response to pain.

 

[MWsunin12]

Yes, being by myself sometimes is not very good, because I overthink everything and over analyze and then it triggers the pain. I notice that when I am kept busy, even challenging my pain, if you will, I do so much better. Like, a few weeks ago, me and my husband and daughter drove to California, which is about a 12+ hour trip from where I live in Utah, and I drove for three hours, which is very unusual for me.

When we were there, I barely had shoulder pain, and if I did, I either put on cream and ignored it or just set the mantras to myself over and over again, and kept myself distracted by other things. While I was there, I walked 8 1/2 miles. When I got back home again, and had nothing else to do, that's when the loneliness snuck back in and the worrying, hence the pain.

My son is going to have his first baby in a few weeks, and right now there's a big issue about immunizations, especially on my daughter-in-law's side. Her mother thinks her own two kids with autism were affected by immunizations and therefore doesn't want my son to immunize his daughter. I, of course, think it's ludicrous. Also, she will be in the delivery room because my daughter-in-law is getting induced, due to gestational diabetes. I worry that she's going to push my son away, because she is a drama queen. She has to be center of attention. I know what that's like, because my own mother did it to me and my husband, almost breaking up our marriage in the first two years we were married.

Also, and this is a big one, I left my church that I have been a member of four decades, and it really hurt my family. Because of that, my husband and I don't have that in common anymore. In fact, our marriage was done religiously, in an LDS temple, where there were serious covenants made. I lost my faith due to disturbing facts and truth about my religion, a few years ago, which gave me my first mental break down. But interestingly enough, it also freed me and because of that, took some of the pressure off of me. Of course, it ratched up my pain because of the guilt and shame I still feel.

I've been seeing a psychotherapist for the last two years, and we have uncovered some major emotional repression, which has helped, it's just not enough to do undo this cycle of conditioned response to pain.

Jules, Have compassion for yourself. That's not just "any" religion to leave, LDS is a lifestyle and community. Of course you're in pain. I'm not LDS, myself, but have worked with many Mormons and have friends who also chose to leave it behind.

I would say, "don't throw out the baby with the bathwater." Is there another type of spiritual community you could go to on Sundays? Or even a philosophical society that does group meditations?

I left my Lutheran upbringing, as well. What helped me was to remember that Jesus didn't establish a particular church on earth. Humans are the ones who called it Catholic, Latter Day Saints, Episcopal, etc. Humans made up the "rules" of each church. LDS, in particular, has years of patriarchy and deep indoctrination through shame, or not living a life the Savior would want. But, think about it: Jesus hung out with real people. He didn't sit in a temple all day. Just my thoughts, but I could totally see how leaving would cause self-pain.

I think you were very brave. Trust yourself.

 

[sadams824]

If you got the list of mistakes in healing from TMS on my website you would know that trying to heal is the #1 mistake made in recovery. It looks to me like you're trying. Also, you cannot check off everything in my Appendix B and still be in pain, it's not possible. You can't heal by intellect alone, just as man cannot live by bread alone.

My shoulders were locked in pain so bad that I had to have people feed me, and yet it was TMS. The brain is powerful, and you can reverse the need if you have the correct information. But you can't get to the right destination on the wrong path. If you've read all the books out there then you are confused because they sometimes say different things. Your brain wants you to think there is an injury, that's its intent. Then the hidden can remain as hidden. Take a look at the emoticons you just used here. They tell the story of you. You are not angry because of your pain, you are in pain because you are angry. Cart before horse Jules.

Work on your heart not your head.

SteveO

Steve would you say the same of hip labral tear? in the doc all the rage dr sarno is talking to a patient about an achilles tear, and she is asking if it is TMS and he adamantly says no an achilles tear is an achilles tear. I have been dx with an a hip labral tear and surgery has been suggested. before I go down that road i am wondering if it could be TMS. i firmly believe i have TMS (i also have other back pain/severe burning that comes and goes) and meet the profile criteria to a T.

 

[mrsciatic]

Please pardon me as a lurker and occasional commenter on this forum, but I should mention something. I have chronic sciatic pain. However, one night I awoke with an incredible shoulder pain. Heart attack? No. After lots of PT and inconclusive MRIs the orthopedic guy did surgery and there was no help. Later I went to see a neurologist regarding my long term sciatic problem. I mentioned the shoulder. He brought up Parsonage Turner Syndrome and he was correct based on a nerve conduction study. It has gotten better over time as the diagnose indicates however whenever I get a flare up of sciatic pain the shoulder pain also increases, my interpretation of all this is that for some reason my pain response system goes into extra duty sometimes. The shoulder surgery like my fusion at L5S1 was of no value so try to exhaust all the other possibilities first, not to mention Sarno effect.

 

[James53]

Thank you so much for your insight, that is really helping me see things in a different perspective. Yes, I guess you could say I've been dealing with shouldering responsibilities that I shouldn't have to shoulder anymore.

My youngest is a free spirit and she's just finishing her first year of college and is wanting to move out permanently in the summer, which of course is making it hard on me as her mother, because in a way, I don't want her to leave the nest just yet, even though she's two hours away in college eight months of the year and when she does come home for any extended period, we clash big-time.

I feel like there wasn't much time between all my kids leaving, and in fact it was within a three-year span that they all left, one right after the other. I'm very happy for them and I know that they have to forge their own way, but it leaves me stuck with no purpose. I mean my job was being their mother, and it feels like I've been in retirement, very early retirement that is.

I have not held down a job for 25 years, well actually 23 years, and I don't know how to be in society in a job. Not only that, but I've had chronic pain for the last 20 years, even though I did do everything that a mother should do, it was still within my control and I didn't have to answer to anybody. I am petrified of getting a job, mainly because the only thing I have really known is writing, and I never went to college just self-taught skills so that I could do it at home, which I've been very successful at.

I do know that something has to change though, because staying at home and just doing minimal stuff is not cutting it. I mean there's only so much housework you can do before you go crazy, or stare at the four walls, or watch Netflix. Lol.

Hi Jules...I lost my job when I was 50. No one would hire me because I was too old. I was CEO of a company with over 400 employees. So I started selling real estate. If anyone had ever told me that I would be a realtor I would have laughed in their face. But I’m 65 now, my wife and I own our own real estate company in a NW ski town, and I make more money than I did as CEO of that company. My point is...there are things you can do...and you can do that thing pain-free. You can be productive, have fun, make an income and you don’t need a degree in anything. I’m not pain free every day, but every day I know why I have the pain. So I pray, talk to my unconscious mind, and work the TMS stuff. You are a hero for staying home to raise your kids. Now do something for yourself. Good luck!

 

[MariaK]

We are not that frail that a dog pulling on a leash could hurt us. It was more likely a trigger for TMS to come pouring out. That's a pretty good massage therapist to feel swelling, or a tear. This is why we advocate "silent massages."

Just know that labrum tears are one of the most misdiagnosed causes of pain. Everyone has those tears and meniscus tears, arthritis, etc. An injury will of course heal quickly, it shouldn't go on for months. You need to raise all the red flags for TMS in order march toward victory. Sp piece it all together to see the entire puzzle.

SO

Omg, you clearly don't have dogs! A dog can totally jerk a person's arm intensely, if they see a squirrel or another dog. I used to walk a friend's Boxer and was constantly surprised to not see the dog running down the trail with my disembodied arm trailing behind him, with my hand still clutching the leash! They can pull incredibly strongly and suddenly. Add to that being out of shape from TMS chronic fatigue and it could totally cause some ongoing soreness at least. It's good to remember, once in a while, that not everything is TMS. And there's a real reason for the disclaimer on this website to not take everything on here as medical advice. That's not to say that Jules doens't have TMS. But that it could be a combination of factors. Even people with TMS get soreness or injuries. They aren't immune to them.

MariaK

 

[intense50]

Bump