*** TMS or Structural? *** Out of hope; don’t know who to believe anymore. :(

[Kerrj74]

Oh my. I empathize with your grief and pain. What do you want the answer to your question to be? I often find when I make up my mind I find the evidence to support that decision. Also consider you have a long history and story that may be challenging to let go.

Thanks Lynn. I agree.

 

[Kerrj74]

So I am going to commit to the TMS diagnosis thanks to all of your help, but I had to go to the spine/pain doc today because I would have paid a penalty if I canceled. It was a new doc so I thought I would use the visit to pick his brain. Just like everyone else, he could not give me a confident diagnosis on why I was in pain!. He recommended another diagnostic lumbar facet joint medial branch nerve block to see if that would help, and if it did, then a nerve ablation would be the next step. I asked him “what is actually wrong though? Why is the only solution to burn a nerve? What is causing the pain?”. Like all the rest, he couldn’t answer me! I told him how I felt great for a week in May when I worked really hard in my back yard one weekend. I asked how that could be if I had something physically wrong? He couldn’t give me an answer! Then I told him my history of unexplained chronic body pains and anxiety and how they went away on their own eventually, and so couldn’t this mysterious unexplainable back pain be the same thing? He couldn’t answer me! I think this visit was very reassuring for me on this new commitment I am embarking on to fully believe there is nothing wrong with me.

I have to mention this crazy experience I had at my primary care physician last month. I was in there for a routine visit and I mentioned my back pain issues. Without asking me for any details or looking at an x-ray or anything, he literally said to me, “you probably need to have your back fused from top to bottom”. Can you believe that?!! I was stunned. I wish I had been recording it. This from a board certified MD in Internal Medicine! I am never going back to him after 10 years being a patient of his.

(....as I write this, there is a laser spine institute commercial on TV! Ha!)

 

[MindBodyPT]

Glad to hear you are feeling reassured with your beliefs! Doctors are good at many things but honestly 99% of them are TERRIBLE at handling chronic pain, so glad you came to that conclusion too. Unless there is an obvious, acute issue they will not have informed, up to date, TMS-centered information on why you are in pain. Many of them make comments and assertions that simply aren't true, or they aren't up to date on the most recent research, or they just have never looked deeper at some of these topics like your primary care MD. And remember that research in medicine is NOT without bias...much of it is fueled by funding from big pharma and other parties that have their own interests in mind. And many (if not most) orthopedic surgeries have NOT been thoroughly studied with randomized controlled trials and other good quality research. Just a few things to keep in mind as you strengthen your TMS beliefs!

 

[Steve Ozanich]

James when I read your words here it reminds me of something Fred Amir wrote that I quoted in GPD, "I was doing fairly well until I sought medical help." Well said Fred.

You did good by going in for your appointment, and you did better by realizing that they don't know what they're doing, forgive them. Dr. Sarno told me to go easy on them because they didn't know what they were doing. The large majority of those in the medical "industry" (it is not a community like people too often describe it) are good kind people who are trying their best. The better way of describing the industry as a whole is "lazy." They have fallen into a Dr. Knock state, trapped by the easy fix that the patient himself or herself desires. The pill, the surgery, the injection, and the fusing of spinal bones is a means of avoiding the cause of the suffering, and easy. It's also $$$. Everyone got lazy, both doctor and patient. The sad part is that the much easier way to freedom is by learning and understanding, or TMS. But the EPS has everyone confused in the Maya I referred to.

Suffering comes from not knowing, confusion, and conflict. But first...the person has to want to heal which very very few do. They say they do, but they do not, just like that say they believe in TMS 100%, but they do not. Self deception is one of three reasons I chose the word deception in GPD. See deeper and free yourself from yourself. All are welcome.

Don't forget to call Dr G. soon James, I was in a bold mood today,

SteveO

 

[Lainey]

So I am going to commit to the TMS diagnosis thanks to all of your help, but I had to go to the spine/pain doc today because I would have paid a penalty if I canceled. It was a new doc so I thought I would use the visit to pick his brain. Just like everyone else, he could not give me a confident diagnosis on why I was in pain!. He recommended another diagnostic lumbar facet joint medial branch nerve block to see if that would help, and if it did, then a nerve ablation would be the next step. I asked him “what is actually wrong though? Why is the only solution to burn a nerve? What is causing the pain?”. Like all the rest, he couldn’t answer me! I told him how I felt great for a week in May when I worked really hard in my back yard one weekend. I asked how that could be if I had something physically wrong? He couldn’t give me an answer! Then I told him my history of unexplained chronic body pains and anxiety and how they went away on their own eventually, and so couldn’t this mysterious unexplainable back pain be the same thing? He couldn’t answer me! I think this visit was very reassuring for me on this new commitment I am embarking on to fully believe there is nothing wrong with me.

I have to mention this crazy experience I had at my primary care physician last month. I was in there for a routine visit and I mentioned my back pain issues. Without asking me for any details or looking at an x-ray or anything, he literally said to me, “you probably need to have your back fused from top to bottom”. Can you believe that?!! I was stunned. I wish I had been recording it. This from a board certified MD in Internal Medicine! I am never going back to him after 10 years being a patient of his.

(....as I write this, there is a laser spine institute commercial on TV! Ha!)

Kerrj74
Thanks for this post. Your experience with the new doc reinforces my own experiences with the medical establishment and my lifelong distrust of doctors. I appreciate that many people have had positive experiences with the medical professionals and know that lives have sometimes been saved by the interventions of physicians and others. Modern medicine can sometimes offer amazing, positive outcomes. However, my experiences have not reinforced my trust in the profession, ever.

My remaining hip/buttock/thigh issue that is still a source of daily discomfort, and immobility is what I am dealing with now. Originally diagnosed as a hip joint with little or no cartilage. Yet, for a few years the pain subsided. Returning after a series of emotional upheavals, along with a few other pain sites adding to the syndrome. The other pains have subsided, this one remains. I know this strain can stop. A work in progress. Others see me limping along and have learned to hold their comments as to my medical prognosis, or what the docs are saying, etc. I sometimes feel like a fish swimming upstream. "Will I ever make its?" But, sites like this do give me hope.
Thanks again.
Lainey

 

[Dorado]

James when I read your words here it reminds me of something Fred Amir wrote that I quoted in GPD, "I was doing fairly well until I sought medical help." Well said Fred.

You did good by going in for your appointment, and you did better by realizing that they don't know what they're doing, forgive them. Dr. Sarno told me to go easy on them because they didn't know what they were doing. The large majority of those in the medical "industry" (it is not a community like people too often describe it) are good kind people who are trying their best. The better way of describing the industry as a whole is "lazy." They have fallen into a Dr. Knock state, trapped by the easy fix that the patient himself or herself desires. The pill, the surgery, the injection, and the fusing of spinal bones is a means of avoiding the cause of the suffering, and easy. It's also $$$. Everyone got lazy, both doctor and patient. The sad part is that the much easier way to freedom is by learning and understanding, or TMS. But the EPS has everyone confused in the Maya I referred to.

Suffering comes from not knowing, confusion, and conflict. But first...the person has to want to heal which very very few do. They say they do, but they do not, just like that say they believe in TMS 100%, but they do not. Self deception is one of three reasons I chose the word deception in GPD. See deeper and free yourself from yourself. All are welcome.

Don't forget to call Dr G. soon James, I was in a bold mood today,

SteveO

Agreed, SteveO. I remember when I initially began posting on this forum; multiple neurologists and several of the best medical institutions in the world, my family who saw the stress I had been under for quite some time, and fellow posters on here all agreed that the symptoms I was experiencing sounded like TMS (some of the doctors referred to it as an "overactive sympathetic nervous system caused by emotional trauma," which is the definition of TMS). I said I believed in the diagnosis, but I still had some doubts, and I continually got worse until I hit rock bottom. How could stress cause these bizarre symptoms (allodynia, excessive sweating, twitching, dry mouth, dry eyes and blurry vision, Raynaud's, wrinkled fingertips, skin that was easily dented by light objects such as paper, heavy limbs, swelling in my hands when walking, mottled skin, worsened symptoms upon exposure to alcohol and chemicals, unraised dermatographia, etc.)? I believed I had given myself alcoholic neuropathy from one particular weekend of binge drinking (simply impossible to occur so suddenly, and I had experienced a few of these symptoms to a lesser degree as a highly emotional child, well before I ever had a sip of alcohol). I proceeded to go from doctor to doctor, although every single test indicated nothing but healthy and undamaged nerve fibers.

I would Google my symptoms for endless hours, until one day I came across an article about wrinkled fingertips and how they're caused by the sympathetic nervous system; this phenomenon can be the result of/worsen during periods of extreme emotional stress. I started researching how the sympathetic nervous system can be behind plenty of bizarre symptoms. And then it hit me: whoa, all the symptoms I've been experiencing really are sympathetically-mediated! Everyone was right! This is what my doctors meant they said my symptoms didn't even match up with true neuropathy (example = hands and feet afflicted with true small fiber neuropathy will stop sweating, as small autonomic nerve fibers responsible for sweat output are damaged; my hands and feet were sweating excessively and more than ever before. I couldn't even type on the computer without my wet fingers sticking to the keys).

The fact that I ever thought a weekend of binge drinking gave me alcoholic neuropathy is beyond me. I went from believing without a doubt that I had alcoholic neuropathy to laughing at myself for ever believing such rubbish. Last spring, had someone asked me to bet all of my money on me having small fiber neuropathy, I would've done it without hesitation. Today, I know with all my heart that an overactive sympathetic nervous system (TMS) is what I have, and it's actually the only diagnosis that makes sense to me now. It explains everything so perfectly, but there was a time when I thought it made absolutely no sense! Remvoing my NeuroTalk account and explaining my diagnosis to the moderators was so therapeutic for me.

As someone who was stressed out and had obsessive compulsive thoughts since I was a child (one of countless examples = I refused to eat anything other than yogurt and applesauce for a few months when I was 11 because I was terrified of choking on food), I started experiencing TMS symptoms early on in my life. The weekend of binge drinking was driven by depressive and suicidal thoughts, and I now understand why it was the last straw for my body. My body finally said NO MORE.

And my belief was when the healing began. Some people say you don't have to believe 100%, but I personally did. I hope this story helps someone else who is having difficulty believing a TMS diagnosis. Sometimes our brains really can trick us into believing something is wrong. I should've never listened to the incompetent pain doctor who asserted that I probably did have small fiber neuropathy or the incompetent neurologist who didn't even run any tests on me but claimed that brain damage from that one weekend was possible - WRONG and a COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME.

 

[Kerrj74]

Agreed, SteveO. I remember when I initially began posting on this forum; multiple neurologists and several of the best medical institutions in the world, my family who saw the stress I had been under for quite some time, and fellow posters on here all agreed that the symptoms I was experiencing sounded like TMS (some of the doctors referred to it as an "overactive sympathetic nervous system caused by emotional trauma," which is the definition of TMS). I said I believed in the diagnosis, but I still had some doubts, and I continually got worse until I hit rock bottom. How could stress cause these bizarre symptoms (allodynia, excessive sweating, twitching, dry mouth, dry eyes and blurry vision, Raynaud's, wrinkled fingertips, skin that was easily dented by light objects such as paper, heavy limbs, swelling in my hands when walking, mottled skin, worsened symptoms upon exposure to alcohol and chemicals, unraised dermatographia, etc.)? I believed I had given myself alcoholic neuropathy from one particular weekend of binge drinking (simply impossible to occur so suddenly, and I had experienced a few of these symptoms to a lesser degree as a highly emotional child, well before I ever had a sip of alcohol). I proceeded to go from doctor to doctor, although every single test indicated nothing but healthy and undamaged nerve fibers.

I would Google my symptoms for endless hours, until one day I came across an article about wrinkled fingertips and how they're caused by the sympathetic nervous system; this phenomenon can be the result of/worsen during periods of extreme emotional stress. I started researching how the sympathetic nervous system can be behind plenty of bizarre symptoms. And then it hit me: whoa, all the symptoms I've been experiencing really are sympathetically-mediated! Everyone was right! This is what my doctors meant they said my symptoms didn't even match up with true neuropathy (example = hands and feet afflicted with true small fiber neuropathy will stop sweating, as small autonomic nerve fibers responsible for sweat output are damaged; my hands and feet were sweating excessively and more than ever before. I couldn't even type on the computer without my wet fingers sticking to the keys).

The fact that I ever thought a weekend of binge drinking gave me alcoholic neuropathy is beyond me. I went from believing without a doubt that I had alcoholic neuropathy to laughing at myself for ever believing such rubbish. Last spring, had someone asked me to bet all of my money on me having small fiber neuropathy, I would've done it without hesitation. Today, I know with all my heart that an overactive sympathetic nervous system (TMS) is what I have, and it's actually the only diagnosis that makes sense to me now. It explains everything so perfectly, but there was a time when I thought it made absolutely no sense! Remvoing my NeuroTalk account and explaining my diagnosis to the moderators was so therapeutic for me.

As someone who was stressed out and had obsessive compulsive thoughts since I was a child (one of countless examples = I refused to eat anything other than yogurt and applesauce for a few months when I was 11 because I was terrified of choking on food), I started experiencing TMS symptoms early on in my life. The weekend of binge drinking was driven by depressive and suicidal thoughts, and I now understand why it was the last straw for my body. My body finally said NO MORE.

And my belief was when the healing began. Some people say you don't have to believe 100%, but I personally did. I hope this story helps someone else who is having difficulty believing a TMS diagnosis. Sometimes our brains really can trick us into believing something is wrong. I should've never listened to the incompetent pain doctor who asserted that I probably did have small fiber neuropathy or the incompetent neurologist who didn't even run any tests on me but claimed that brain damage from that one weekend was possible - WRONG and a COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME.

Thanks Caulfield!!!!

 

[Steve Ozanich]

Yes Caulfield, unfortunately I see it every day. Doctors tell people they have this and they have that and they cripple the person because they begin to identify with that notion. It's so common I've been turning numb to the situation, until someone in great suffering suddenly realizes and heals. Suffering is a tremendous reminder of humanity. It is all coming from mind, some situations are more problematic and others mysterious. But the deeper we get into this work the more we can see that mind is the problem, almost never the body. But I can say that increasingly more MDs are contacting me to tell me to keep up the good work, that they see TMS in most of their patients but the patients don't want to hear it. Th truth always offends someone no matter what the topic is, which is why ego is the most destructive force in this world. Ego is simply a circulating opinion in the body that separates us from what is real.

People email every day asking if what they have is TMS? It's always TMS by the expanding definition of mindbody, which Dr. Sarno was seeing more clearly toward the end. The problem as I said before is usually confusion, which seems to be coming more and more from people who call themselves TMS practitioners, and the confusion continues. It's all about consciousness which thinking disrupts. In the end mind is the problem, the thought/mind is the lie and the emotion is the truth.

SteveO

 

[Kerrj74]

To be honest, I think the hardest part for most people like me is that despite intellectually knowing that TMS has to be the cause and reading about people exactly like me being “cured”, it is hard to get the ball rolling and build some momentum where you can see even the slightest indication that it is working. Because I know once that happens, all doubt will be gone and there will be no turning back for me. I think that is the part a lot of people new to TMS struggle with- having complete faith and belief in the TMS diagnosis so that you can really let go of the idea that you are physically broken. Of course, making that even more difficult are the so called medical experts who keep trying to make you believe that something is wrong with you.

I am ready to heal now. I want to heal. I am starting to believe, and I am dedicating myself to daily reminders, self talk that there is nothing wrong with me, and doing things despite the pain. I am working on getting rid of the fear and undoing the conditioning that is causing me to hurt. I am starting to journal to acknowledge my emotions. I know that I am the ultimate Type “T” personality. I know it is not a coincidence that I have always suffered from mysterious unexplainable pains and severe anxiety. All of this can only be explained logically as TMS. It can’t be anything else!

I have a reminder on my phone throughout the day to say these affirmations that I wrote to myself last night:

- I am not injured or broken
- I am not afraid of pain
- I can undo the conditioning of expecting pain
- This can't hurt me
- I would not feel better at times if something was physically wrong with me!
- All of my chronic health issues are from the same cause! Nothing else makes sense but TMS!
- I am in no rush. I am content with this moment, right now
- This will take time and I will have bumps in the road. That is okay!
- I will be pain free
- There is nothing physical for me to do in order to heal
- Calm down. Don't overanalyze and obsess on things- especially the pain and my body!
- I can and will unlearn the pain
- Breathe!!!!!

 

[iwire]

But I can say that increasingly more MDs are contacting me to tell me to keep up the good work, that they see TMS in most of their patients but the patients don't want to hear it. Th truth always offends someone no matter what the topic is, which is why ego is the most destructive force in this world. Ego is simply a circulating opinion in the body that separates us from what is real.

Steve O
My experience is as you described here..... My sensations have been present for 3 years-- and after adequate "medicalizing" all three of my MD's were telling me that my worry and perseveration on my symptoms were perpetuating them... and I needed to try not to focus on them. That was impossible for me-they involve my ear,neck, jaw and face and trust me--those sensations did not want to be ignored. I believed I was "somato-cizing" but had no idea what to do about it. The doctors offered suggestions like "try meditation", "get on with life" "ignore it." All of these suggestions are good in theory--but what they didn't say is --don't fear your symptoms. . . don't worry about them...and I worried about them every minute of every day. I discovered Dr. Sarno on my own and when I first saw Dr. Schubiner and started "Unlearn your Pain" it resonated with me deeply--but progress wasn't as I hoped--and I knew it was because I was still so fearful. I returned to my MD and I said to him-- 'I want to move forward healing with a mind body approach--but I am so fearful that something dangerous is being medically missed that I am stuck and can't get better.' He was completely supportive (and I think relieved that I wasn't' asking him to figure out what is wrong) and he reviewed all my testing/imaging --answered all my questions specifically related to my fear...and reassured me that my plan for following a 'mind body" healing strategy was the right one. I am early on the path--but Steve O--your comments above about fear and your comment about the Ego "a circulating opinion in the body" were helpful to me today... Thanks!

 

[Kyzer Soze]

To be honest, I think the hardest part for most people like me is that despite intellectually knowing that TMS has to be the cause and reading about people exactly like me being “cured”, it is hard to get the ball rolling and build some momentum where you can see even the slightest indication that it is working. Because I know once that happens, all doubt will be gone and there will be no turning back for me. I think that is the part a lot of people new to TMS struggle with- having complete faith and belief in the TMS diagnosis so that you can really let go of the idea that you are physically broken. Of course, making that even more difficult are the so called medical experts who keep trying to make you believe that something is wrong with you.

I am ready to heal now. I want to heal. I am starting to believe, and I am dedicating myself to daily reminders, self talk that there is nothing wrong with me, and doing things despite the pain. I am working on getting rid of the fear and undoing the conditioning that is causing me to hurt. I am starting to journal to acknowledge my emotions. I know that I am the ultimate Type “T” personality. I know it is not a coincidence that I have always suffered from mysterious unexplainable pains and severe anxiety. All of this can only be explained logically as TMS. It can’t be anything else!

I have a reminder on my phone throughout the day to say these affirmations that I wrote to myself last night:

- I am not injured or broken
- I am not afraid of pain
- I can undo the conditioning of expecting pain
- This can't hurt me
- I would not feel better at times if something was physically wrong with me!
- All of my chronic health issues are from the same cause! Nothing else makes sense but TMS!
- I am in no rush. I am content with this moment, right now
- This will take time and I will have bumps in the road. That is okay!
- I will be pain free
- There is nothing physical for me to do in order to heal
- Calm down. Don't overanalyze and obsess on things- especially the pain and my body!
- I can and will unlearn the pain
- Breathe!!!!!

 

[Kyzer Soze]

James,

What emotion(s) are you suppressing? U have to figure out where emotionally you do not want to go. Those deep dark places. What has happened emotionally in your life where you have suppressed emotions? Be totally honest with yourself. You mentioned " a few weeks into a new job", then back pain occurred? The new job and back pain related? Sounds like it. Personally, I was in lower back pain since last century and now I am cured. I went to Dr Gwowdz. I highly recommend him.

 

[andy64tms]

Hi James,

What a great example of a TMS turns around; all in one thread. I have never seen this before. I remember you from Eight ball’s thread a few weeks ago. This is where you referred to your “detailed back pain story”, similar to your “Pain Resume” above.

By the way I am not a fellow back pain sufferer anymore, since I recovered in 2000 with the aid from Dr. Sarno’s Healing Back pain and his VHS videos, this was before the Internet, U-tube videos and TMS help forums. I often think I was better off alone with my inner thoughts which is where healing takes place, when I joined the TMS Help forum in 2012 my first post was my success story.

You have shown others how to interview a doctor, it’s a much needed skill if you are a TMSer, and you did well not to get diverted. When I had a niggling appendix I had my doctor miss it on examination, he asked leading questions, failed to administer a simple blood test, and embarrassed me by offering me his charity pamphlets. He was truly diverted, and my appendix burst the next day at work. Dr Sarno recognized the wonders of modern medicine and my subsequent surgery and stay in hospital comes under this category.

Affirmations worked well for me also, they help when doubt sets in and reinforce commitment. My most radical affirmation was to flush 200 cigarettes down the toilet. They were Benson and Hedges King size filter tipped. You see I had quit smoking five years prior, and had been given them as a gift. In a way it was a double affirmation, since then I was very frugal and didn’t like waste. This was in the 70’s, my first silly affirmation that really worked for 35 or so years.

By the way; being an engineer and perfectionist shows you are a deep thinker and could be considered an asset to TMS awareness. As an engineer you have the tenacity and skills to examine and observe your emotions - the real cause of your pain. The next course of action could be your “Emotional Resume”; you don’t need to post it here.


James it’s your turn to heal, be well

Footnote: I Guarantee smoking = TMS

 

[Kerrj74]

James,

What emotion(s) are you suppressing? U have to figure out where emotionally you do not want to go. Those deep dark places. What has happened emotionally in your life where you have suppressed emotions? Be totally honest with yourself. You mentioned " a few weeks into a new job", then back pain occurred? The new job and back pain related? Sounds like it. Personally, I was in lower back pain since last century and now I am cured. I went to Dr Gwowdz. I highly recommend him.

Thanks Kyzer! I will start digging!

 

[Kerrj74]

Hi James,

What a great example of a TMS turns around; all in one thread. I have never seen this before. I remember you from Eight ball’s thread a few weeks ago. This is where you referred to your “detailed back pain story”, similar to your “Pain Resume” above.

By the way I am not a fellow back pain sufferer anymore, since I recovered in 2000 with the aid from Dr. Sarno’s Healing Back pain and his VHS videos, this was before the Internet, U-tube videos and TMS help forums. I often think I was better off alone with my inner thoughts which is where healing takes place, when I joined the TMS Help forum in 2012 my first post was my success story.

You have shown others how to interview a doctor, it’s a much needed skill if you are a TMSer, and you did well not to get diverted. When I had a niggling appendix I had my doctor miss it on examination, he asked leading questions, failed to administer a simple blood test, and embarrassed me by offering me his charity pamphlets. He was truly diverted, and my appendix burst the next day at work. Dr Sarno recognized the wonders of modern medicine and my subsequent surgery and stay in hospital comes under this category.

Affirmations worked well for me also, they help when doubt sets in and reinforce commitment. My most radical affirmation was to flush 200 cigarettes down the toilet. They were Benson and Hedges King size filter tipped. You see I had quit smoking five years prior, and had been given them as a gift. In a way it was a double affirmation, since then I was very frugal and didn’t like waste. This was in the 70’s, my first silly affirmation that really worked for 35 or so years.

By the way; being an engineer and perfectionist shows you are a deep thinker and could be considered an asset to TMS awareness. As an engineer you have the tenacity and skills to examine and observe your emotions - the real cause of your pain. The next course of action could be your “Emotional Resume”; you don’t need to post it here.


James it’s your turn to heal, be well

Footnote: I Guarantee smoking = TMS

Thanks Andy! I will start working on the emotional resume! I like that term!