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TMS or Autoimmune

Discussion in 'General Discussion Subforum' started by InPainPleaseHelp, Jul 22, 2017.

  1. InPainPleaseHelp

    InPainPleaseHelp Newcomer

    Hi guys,

    Does anyone have any insight into whether or not TMS causes autoimmune diseases? I have a very bizarre case, and I'm not sure if I have an autoimmune disease or TMS.

    I started getting painless, "seizure like migraines" about 5y ago that consisted of dizziness, disorientation, nausea and "head-zaps", every single day. Eventually drs put me on anti-seizure medication about 1.5y ago, and the "migraines" stopped, but I started developing limb pain a few months later. Initially it was more like restless leg syndrome, only at night and only in my calves and the pain was dull aching/crawling/tingling. Now its spread to pretty much everywhere, and the pain can be sharp and stabbing in some places. Today it was on the left side of my foot, and I couldnt put any pressure on it to walk around.

    This sounds like typical TMS, and I was convinced for about a year that it was, but it didnt get better. I started seeing a TMS psychoanalyst about 2m ago as well. But here's the confusing part. Last week one of my Dr's noticed that I had some typical markers of an autoimmune disease. I had low white blood cell count, a positive ANA marker, signs of inflammation as well as RNP antibodies. She said that all of my levels were borderline, just barely positive, but not positive enough to be full blown LUPUS or Mixed Connective Tissue Disease, so they diagnosed me as having Undifferentiated Connective Tissue Disease (basically an in between connective tissue diesease that hasnt fully materialized into Lupus or MCTD).

    What I do not understand is that Connective Tissue diseases can cause inflammation and joint pain, but from everything that I've read, they dont really cause the severity of the pain symptoms that I'm having. In addition, my bloodwork shows that I'm kinda in this in between state, I have an autoimmune disease but I dont.

    Do you guys think that this is psychologically induced? Anyone have any experience with TMS and AI diseases? How do I beat this thing? I'm utterly miserable.
  2. Benjiro

    Benjiro Peer Supporter

    Dr. Sarno has a brief section in The Mindbody Prescription where he discusses disorders in which emotions may play a role (Autoimmune, Cardiovascular, Cancer). On the first category, he writes

    "It may perhaps be taken as a faint sign of hope that an article and editorial appeared in the Journal of the American Medical Association in April 1999 on the physical benefit of writing about stressful experiences in patients with rheumatoid arthritis and asthma. This study is similar to the one reported on page 119, in which writing about emotionally disturbing situations produced a drop in Epstein-Barr antibody titers. According to our classification, asthma is an equivalent of TMS, but rheumatoid arthritis, which is an autoimmune disorder, is not. This is further evidence that emotional factors play a role in the etiology of autoimmune disorders. That the study warranted an editorial titled 'Emotional Expression and Disease Outcome' is a basis for guarded optimism that American medicine is beginning to become aware of the relationship between emotions and physical illness."

    There simply isn't as much clinical evidence on serious disorders of this kind as they have for the most part been treated in the conventional way. I absolutely suspect an emotional link as I know a woman who got healed from an AI through psychomatic medicine.

    As a point of clarification, a disease can be emotionally induced but not TMS if it doesn't operate through our attention as a distraction. Dr. Sarno speculates that the more serious manifestations could be due to deeper unresolved issues. That said, if the basic cause of both is the same then the same prescription is likely to be effective.

    Gabor Mate's "When the Body Says No: Understanding the Stress-Disease Connection" takes a sober look at the emotional link to disease told from the perspective of a Doctor who spent a lot of time with seriously and often terminally ill patients. It contains the latest research and I would highly recommend it to you and anyone interested in the subject.
  3. Huckleberry

    Huckleberry Well known member

    Not that this will clarify anything for you but from my own experience I would be somewhat sceptical of placing too much store in ANA tests and the like for AI issues. My markers fluctuate constantly to the point where one week I would be diagnosed for an AI disease and two weeks later my numbers are bang on normal...it really makes little sense.

    I recall a few years back having bloods done and going into to see the GP afterwards to be told I probably had AI hepatitis. I was totally asympomatic and surprised to say the least. The test was repeated about 6 weeks later with a CT scan after my referral to the liver specialist and they were absolutely bang on normal and he discharged me on the first visit. It's stuff like this, chasing blood tests etc, that really increases health related anxiety...if you have enough scans, bloods etc done something will crop up that's probably totally benign but opens up a real can of worms.

    Weirdly enough I'm now going through a similar thing where bloods I had taken for gastric issues highlighted a slow thyroid with a high anti-body tiltre. My GP says this is possible Hashimotos but once again I'm totally symptom free so who knows?

    I know this doesn't help you specifically but just wanted to mention how vague all this AI stuff is. I have zero doubt that stress/anxiety reflects in those blood test results but as to how the stress/anxiety actually causes the AI issues I'm not sure...for me at least stress/anxiety and TMS are bedfellows so I think there must be some psychological causality.

    Good luck going forward.

    Edit: as an aside, my main issue has always been my lower back pain. I have a benign spinal neuroma which may or may not be causing me pain BUT regardless of the pain causality I know I can control the pain amplification through applying TMS techniques. Since my focus has been on my thyroid issue (the usual internet research, doctor shopping etc etc) I haven't had a single back pain flare...that's with hiking about 7 miles daily as well. The mind and body are strange things indeed.
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2017
  4. npoise

    npoise New Member

    I am in between the TMS and autoimmune (AI) limbo too.

    I had acute neck pain (couldn't turn or bend my head) in Jan 2017 which I had to be rushed to the A&E, given injection and on alternate day physiotherapy, the xray showed disc bulging between my C5 and C6, I didn't see much improvement and my alternate day physio lasted till Mar 2017 which i decided to seek second opinion as it was more than 3 months, I had a history of uveitis, that triggered the doctor to conduct autoimmune tests for me. The result came back positive for HLAB27, a marker for Ankylosing Spondylitis (AS), a form of arthritis, so I was sent for full spine MRI and multiple xrays, no fusion was detected. So next, I was sent to a rheumatologist, he put me on NSAID for 3 months and stated my AS case could be atypical or mild case blah blah blah cause there was no fusion in my spine or SI joint (hallmarks of AS)... That was my turning point, I told myself there must be a way out, so I started my exercises, yoga, resuming daily activities and using essential oils, eventually I am pain-free. Later, I discovered TMS, I joined a Facebook group "MindBody Healing with Ralphitness" (a bunch of people in this group healed themselves from autoimmune by believing in TMS), reading Sarno "Healing Back Pain" and I stopped the NSAID.

    My last visit to my rheumy was on 13 Jul 2017, the blood test showed my ESR dropped to 18 (normal is 0-15), earlier was 20++ and he declared I am in remission. My ex-physiotherapist (I stopped seeing one) believes I don't have AS, she said I should work on my mind or stress and exercises. Sometimes, when I feel a bit aching (not serious pain), it does work if I tell my brain to stop creating pain. I am due for another blood test and visit to the rheumy in 5 months time.

    I have a difficult past, adverse childhood experience and I have most of the personality traits of a TMSer, so believing in TMS may help with my emotional healing. I am still working on my emotional issues.

    Currently, I am reading Gabor Mate's "When the Body Says No: Understanding the Stress-Disease Connection" which Benjiro mentioned "provide a sober outlook" into our case. This book relates better to me, the cases provide a deeper insight, Dr Mate's cases some traced back to the parents or grandparents issues, touching on terminal illness like ALS, Multiple Sclerosis, cancer etc.
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2017
  5. MindBodyPT

    MindBodyPT Beloved Grand Eagle

    I think there's an interesting discussion going on here. There seems to be a difference to me between true TMS disorders that can be fully cured by TMS healing and others. Sarno and other doctors write about this in The Divided Mind.

    There seem to be a huge number of things such as cancer, heart disease, stroke, autoimmune disorders, that clearly aren't TMS purely but have a huge mind body component. At the TMS course I went to by dr. Schubiner and Alan Gordon, we talked about the big Adverse Childhood Event studies done recently. These showed a huge correlation with traumatic occurrences in childhood with development of various health issues in adulthood. Other factors can also contribute to these conditions of course, but these childhood events set up a neurobiological course for the brain to develop in a way that seems more conducive to some of these issues.

    Takeaway point for me as I've done some reading on this is that the mind and body are a complex ecosystem influenced by culture, life experience, emotion and situation as well as the commonly thought of things like diet, exercise and genetics. Fascinating stuff!
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2017
    Lily Rose, plum and Ellen like this.
  6. FredAmir

    FredAmir Well known member

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