TMS is the perfect excuse

[BloodMoon]

This mirrors my experience as well. And I like to make this point every chance I get: I recovered from TMS, but still suffered from symptoms related to Complex PTSD. I didn't have to resolve all my emotional baggage to be pain/symptom free. I suppose it is the C-PTSD that accounts for the triggers of the relapses I've had since my initial TMS recovery. But I want to emphasize to people that you don't have to resolve all your psychological issues to recover from TMS. There seems to be different mechanisms in place for the issues that result in TMS, and the ones that result in general psychological suffering, at least for me. I would like to understand this better.

This seems to illustrate that Sarno's symptoms as distractions from unconscious rage and Gordon's neuroplasticity where pain persists via a 'fear matrix' of misfired danger signals can exist in the same person simultaneously—or operate separately—which is something I've thought all along. Blending awareness practices like journaling for rage with somatic tracking and safety cues could tackle both at once for people who have it 'all' going on, but this possibility is often rejected by one camp or the other (and I think for some people, in particular for newbies to the mind/body world, it's often all too much to contemplate).

 

[Mani]

I like to think of tms as a philosophy. Its a way of life: self compassion, outcome independence, feeling emotions.

Theres a million ways our bodies can signal malfunction.

To be honest im just a newb but the fact that all experts have a different approach is telling imo.

 

[Adam Coloretti (coach)]

I'm fully open to your view—though I still grapple with not fully using my 'bright/smart' potential, as I never really knew what I wanted to do when I grew up (work and private life) and my apathy kept me stuck.

So, how did you reach 0/10? And how do you hold 3/10—what practices sustain it?

I'm so glad it resonated!

My practice comes from Michael Singer and "The Untethered Soul" - and his practice comes from the Eastern philosophy. I've read a lot of self-help books and spiritual/psychological books, but after I read this book (and not even the first time, I actually returned to it a few years later and it resonated a lot more), I genuinely don't think I need anything else. I never thought that would happen and I thought I'd be reading these type of books forever (if not for finding the answer just for the sake of curiosity), but this one has stopped me in my tracks and my intuition tells me that it's the truth and the right path.

Reaching a 0/10 has involved simply entering the seat of consciousness (the witness) and observing my thoughts and emotions without judgment (which is essentially what meditation is - although I just do it throughout the day I don't sit down and close my eyes) for long enough that I begin to see how 99% of my thoughts are there to protect me psychologically. We simulate problems in our mind in order to be able to come up with solutions for them - but that's a lot of effort and energy expended for something that hasn't and will probably never happen. I've made the decision that I don't want to devote my life to protecting myself psychologically (we should protect ourselves from physical threats and things that can escalate into physical threats - but most of what we are worried about if we are privileged enough in the western world is what people think of us and other things like that which don't really matter/ we don't actually need protection from, only our egos do). If I can be in that state for long enough (I can only really do it for 5 minutes now before my mind hijacks me again), then the mind goes empty. It happened last night actually (this hasn't happened many times), where I got into that state and my arms almost felt this rush of energy, like I'd been injected with morphine. I started to laugh and got a little bit teary - someone witnessing this would have thought I was nuts! It was an amazing feeling (and it was entirely out of my control) but not something that I'm really exposed to in everyday life where my mind dominates proceedings (which makes more sense to me now).

If I had to summarise the main tactic (and there's more to it than this in terms of explaining why and how this came about), it's based on the idea that most of your thoughts are for psychological protection - if you buy into them and entertain them, the protection gets stronger (this is very similar to TMS wiring). If you let them be but don't get sucked into them (you keep your distance as the witness consciousness, you are not the thoughts but you are the one who notices the thoughts, same with emotions - if you have thoughts and emotions you can't be them - I have a chair so I'm not the chair), they lose their power and they'll eventually cease. Like pain, you're proving to your brain that you don't need that protection.

I like what you said about your potential, because in the state I just described above I've never felt more clear to make decisions. Your intuition is just as much your potential as is your mind (arguably more). Our minds (when used correctly) are also wonderful analytical tools, but we abuse it to solve and deal with our personal problems. This path both unlocks your intuition and also frees the mind to do what it's supposed to do (solve equations and business tasks), rather than worry about what Johnny said 30 years ago because I have to see him again at the school reunion.

In terms of holding a 3/10, that's a great question because you could look at this discovery of mine as both a blessing and a curse. This has highlighted more the unnecessary nature of the 3/10 (beyond it being a stepping stone to get better), and Singer's path is about freeing yourself from the mind completely (it seems that few ever get there, but even if I can get closer it's a very worthwhile pursuit to me). All other tactics involve playing with the mind and trying to make the thoughts better (a 3/10 is better than a 5/10 which is what these tactics might give you) - but if you think about it that's not really doing anything to the fear itself, it is avoidance in an attractive coat. If someone is nervous socially to go to a party, well meaning advice would say things like "it won't be that bad" or "no one cares about you as much as you think" - whilst this may be true (and I'm not knocking it as some people need to start there - it's still an improvement), you're still sort of endorsing and justifying the fear because you're basically saying "it's reasonable to be scared, but here's why what you're scared of won't likely happen". That only fuels the mind as it still thinks it needs protection. It's a paradigm shift to say no, I don't actually need protection from it - because if you don't need protection from it that's the only way you can truly be indifferent - and if you don't care what happens in the party (e.g. you don't care if someone makes a snide remark to you), then you're truly free. It's the exact same thing with TMS, if you tell someone that their symptoms likely won't be that bad when they do a movement then that might be a decent first step, but the ultimate path to freedom is them not caring whether or not the symptoms come (because they know what it is).

I could discuss this forever so I'm more than happy to - but yes all of these ideas and my outlook comes from 'The Untethered Soul"

 

[Adam Coloretti (coach)]

But I want to emphasize to people that you don't have to resolve all your psychological issues to recover from TMS. There seems to be different mechanisms in place for the issues that result in TMS, and the ones that result in general psychological suffering, at least for me. I would like to understand this better.

Completely agree! And it's why I don't feel the need to teach what I said above because it simply isn't necessary to recover - I agree with Sarno in that for a large majority of people belief in TMS coupled with aligning your behaviours with that belief will be enough - the emotional work always helps though and can be a critical factor for some (especially in cases of ACEs) - but to this spiritual level definitely not (if that was the case, very few would recover and a lot more people would have TMS in the first place).

 

[Adam Coloretti (coach)]

I like to think of tms as a philosophy. Its a way of life: self compassion, outcome independence, feeling emotions.

I like it!

 

[BloodMoon]

after I read this book (and not even the first time, I actually returned to it a few years later and it resonated a lot more), I genuinely don't think I need anything else.

Fabulous! Thank you, again! I've now dusted off my copies of Michael Singer's two books, and his 'guided journal' (I went the whole hog!) and I shall revisit!

When I first read his books I was wowed by them and then... well... I don't know what happened! As with a lot of things, I'm flaky/generally a bit of a 'butterfly', my mind flits about on to stuff that interests me or partially interests me, stopping for a while and then moving on, I just don't stay the course.

It happened last night actually (this hasn't happened many times), where I got into that state and my arms almost felt this rush of energy, like I'd been injected with morphine. I started to laugh and got a little bit teary - someone witnessing this would have thought I was nuts! It was an amazing feeling (and it was entirely out of my control) but not something that I'm really exposed to in everyday life where my mind dominates proceedings (which makes more sense to me now).

I remember what morphine's like—had it after breast surgery—my dreams were of fluffy clouds, blue sky, and Neapolitan ice cream! I just now opened a page of Michael Singer's The Surrender Experiment book and the first thing I read was "True happiness comes only when your inner energy is free to flow". I can understand that you would only have to experience that once to realise, like you have, that his books are all you need. I'm yet to have a moment like that sans morphine!

Overnight I was thinking about you writing - "Don't underestimate how much we are all suffering psychologically" - and was reminded of what someone said to me once, many years back, i.e. "BloodMoon, the trouble with you is that you think everyone else is having a better time than you are!". I was taken aback as I hadn't actually made any comparisons with other people (for all my faults, for some reason I have never been a jealous or envious type) but I see I wasn't recognising 'the human condition'.

It's the exact same thing with TMS, if you tell someone that their symptoms likely won't be that bad when they do a movement then that might be a decent first step, but the ultimate path to freedom is them not caring whether or not the symptoms come (because they know what it is).

I am leading a much fuller life despite my discomfort and pain, both have profoundly majorly lessened with what I've been doing, e.g. taking 'baby steps' in doing stuff, which I've built upon, and self-soothing (the latter as advised by Sarno), and I don't think about the residual general discomfort and pain that I still experience (because I know it's mind/body and also becaue it's peanuts compared to what I've been through). However, I recognise that with certain bodily positions I do fear the return of excruciating pain, not because of the pain itself, but because of the disability/immobility caused by the associated muscle spasming—on numerous occasions these spasms torqued my pelvis out of line and then the muscles set like concrete keeping my pelvis in that skewed position, which rendered me unable to walk or stand—totally bedridden for a total of over 18 months.

I need to somehow not care about being immobile/bedridden, to not need protection from it. The title of Singer's first book is The Surrender Experiment and I'm not able to surrender to it. This resonates with my micro-movements—observing body sensations as witness, not threat—yet Singer's full letting-go feels like the next layer. I'd be grateful for your thoughts on this.

(we should protect ourselves from physical threats and things that can escalate into physical threats - but most of what we are worried about if we are privileged enough in the western world is what people think of us and other things like that which don't really matter/ we don't actually need protection from, only our egos do).

I see that and agree. The thing is though, it can feel like the threat is potentially a physical one. We might be worried about what a person thinks of us because we're in that person's hands. For instance, the last time I was concerned about what someone thought of me (and was perturbed about it) was when I was referred to the "bee's knees" of an eye surgeon (for a non-mind/body condition). I didn't like his manner, he was rude - probably a sociopath - and I felt like an anxious kid not wanted to put a foot out of place. I could have gone elsewhere, of course, but I wanted the most skilled person to be working on me.

It makes me wonder whether just like they have found (on fMRIs) emotional hurts light up the brain in exactly the same places that when we are physically hurt the brain also lights up... the 'mechanism' of mind/body pain... we are also liable to feel the rejection/criticism from others in the same places in our brains.

This has highlighted more the unnecessary nature of the 3/10 (beyond it being a stepping stone to get better), and Singer's path is about freeing yourself from the mind completely (it seems that few ever get there, but even if I can get closer it's a very worthwhile pursuit to me). All other tactics involve playing with the mind and trying to make the thoughts better (a 3/10 is better than a 5/10 which is what these tactics might give you) - but if you think about it that's not really doing anything to the fear itself, it is avoidance in an attractive coat.

"Avoidance in an attractive coat"—I love the metaphor! I know it will stay with me. I get what you're saying but I have to say that the example of a 3/10 being better than a 5/10 has given me a lot of peace (and relief especially in respect of the example you gave that I would have been likely experiencing a 5/10 anyway without TMS) but I shall remember that it's a 'stepping stone'. How do you practice surrender in moments of real physical vulnerability—have you found that witness consciousness helps release the 'what if' grip on outcomes like bedridden fear?

 

[Adam Coloretti (coach)]

When I first read his books I was wowed by them and then... well... I don't know what happened!

I was the exact same! I think this has been my third read, and even though the first two were profound (probably each a year ago apart, so the first one two years ago), this one has hit me in the face to such an extent that it's really stuck - I can't get away from it even though I can go weeks back in old habits and not being conscious enough to apply the techniques.

I do fear the return of excruciating pain, not because of the pain itself, but because of the disability/immobility caused by the associated muscle spasming—on numerous occasions these spasms torqued my pelvis out of line and then the muscles set like concrete keeping my pelvis in that skewed position, which rendered me unable to walk or stand—totally bedridden for a total of over 18 months.

This resonates with my micro-movements—observing body sensations as witness, not threat—yet Singer's full letting-go feels like the next layer. I'd be grateful for your thoughts on this.

I completely understand you and it's great awareness that it's not the pain itself but more so what the pain means. I think it is the next layer but it's a big step and one that I wouldn't blame someone for scoffing at. It's really challenging the concept of the "I" and who we are. Are you any less of a person being bedridden? Morally you'd probably say no (I would too), and society would like you to think or would like itself to say no, despite inferring the complete opposite in hundreds of different ways. It's ironic though in a sense that this is not only powerful from a spiritual sense, but the pain/spasms obviously respond to fear, so the best chance you have of the spasms not happening again is if you don't care whether or not they do (doesn't mean you have to like it, but you can play with what it means in order to reduce the consequences and in turn fear - appreciating that there are practical consequences of course).

I didn't like his manner, he was rude - probably a sociopath - and I felt like an anxious kid not wanted to put a foot out of place. I could have gone elsewhere, of course, but I wanted the most skilled person to be working on me.

It makes me wonder whether just like they have found (on fMRIs) emotional hurts light up the brain in exactly the same places that when we are physically hurt the brain also lights up... the 'mechanism' of mind/body pain... we are also liable to feel the rejection/criticism from others in the same places in our brains.

You've probably highlighted the point where east converges away from west. The reason to me why the same parts light up is that we were conditioned as children (and there's a biological aspect) to treat those as one in the same, which makes sense from a protection standpoint because if we don't get the emotional support and love we can't fend for ourselves so that is a genuine physical threat. I think Michael would say that we can grow out of this and we are clearly in a different situation (or at least most of us are) that we can for the most part fend for ourselves as adults. In fact I know this is where it converges because in The Untethered Soul Michael talks about releasing stored traumas (called samskaras) by allowing them to complete, freeing you from the fear and pain attached to that experience. It's far simpler (doesn't mean it's easy) than western methods.

In your example (and I have trouble with this too, so this may sound harsh but this is what the teachings have led me to) - who cares if he's rude? We are all the product of our own experiences, trust me in that if you watched his whole life then you'd understand why he's coming across that way or acting that way. That doesn't mean it's morally right or fair, but we may as well accept the reality of the situation because it's happening whether we like it or not (doesn't mean we don't act). If you did watch it, you'd realise too that him being rude to you has nothing to do with you. This situation is a bit unique and it's actually a good one, because you're saying I better behave otherwise he might withhold his assistance or hurt me (even then that's probably unlikely - but there is some logic in that). It's not really much of a decision though because logic would dictate that you should see him as he's the best (I agree) - so the answer is clearly to not fight back verbally.

The reason this becomes such a mess in our minds is simply because someone being rude to us has made us feel bad in the past (that's fair enough), so now we've basically told the mind that its job is to make sure we never feel that way again. It's clever too and will lean on morality and other ideas to try and avoid it (or make sure it doesn't happen again) - when all we are doing is trying to protect from the feeling. It will say things like "well if I don't stand up to him, then he's going to be rude to other people" - he will probably be rude to others regardless, and this is the mind pretending that it's about protecting others when it's really about protecting ourselves. It can also say "if I don't stand up for myself here then others will just walk all over me" - again, that's like a half truth - the whole world isn't in cahoots, meaning that there isn't a world wide press release saying "Adam didn't stand up for himself, just letting everyone else know so that you guys can take advantage of him too". The next person you come across could be extremely kind - that has nothing to do with you and everything to do with them. There's so much mental energy and so much suffering in that for very little, if any, gain. Most of our mental suffering relates to things that end up never happening, but we think it necessary still because we are so afraid of how certain things happening will make us feel. If you really embody the mantra of "I can handle it", then you don't need most of the mental suffering and that's a big part of freedom.

I think we have to trust our survival instincts - we don't need our minds to protect ourselves or know when something isn't right. If someone takes a swing at you, you'll defend yourself naturally - you won't need to think about it. Most other types of psychological protections are just ego driven.

I could go forever but I'll leave it there - hopefully that answers it but please let me know if it didn't

 

[Adam Coloretti (coach)]

How do you practice surrender in moments of real physical vulnerability—have you found that witness consciousness helps release the 'what if' grip on outcomes like bedridden fear?

Sorry I didn't answer this. Absolutely because it detaches us from the mind so we can see what it is doing. It just goes around in circles a lot of the time on the same point. The thing is that you already know instinctively and already are aware of biological and physical threats (like I have to eat, I need water - and if you couldn't move you would need someone to help you with that - that doesn't require thought - it's actually funny that we almost think we need to think about being hungry in order to eat) - the mind rebels against those realities, whereas your instincts accept them and then you do the best that you can.

Your mind is going to try and think your way out of it (there's nothing that your mind will come up with from a survival standpoint that your instincts aren't already aware of - it is innate), and it also will focus more on the psychological threats that attach to the physical threats. What I mean is that a lot of the additional fear (which leads to the most suffering) relates to what being bedridden means (beyond it being a physical threat). It's worried about what others think, it's worried about not achieving enough in life and missing out. You talk about physical vulnerability, if there is a genuine risk that you won't be taken care of and you are at risk of not having enough assistance to survive, then yes it's a physical threat and a physical vulnerability. That is biological fear. Anything beyond that is the mind and the ego - i.e. despite being bedridden, if you know with some confidence that you can take care of yourself enough (or have someone take care of you enough) that you would be ok physically, then absolutely witness consciousness can free you. It's strong medicine and I know that will inevitably bring up arguments about quality of life, but I do believe it true.

 

[BloodMoon]

I was the exact same! I think this has been my third read

I'm pleased to know that it wasn't just a case of flaky ol' me!

it's great awareness that it's not the pain itself but more so what the pain means.

Yes, the helplessness of it (being bedridden)—that aspect isn't talked about much, in fact hardly at all. What is talked about is what the 'payoff' may be—i.e., the disability that the pain causes may be serving to allow you to duck out of something you don't want or don't like doing in your life, not just because your brain sees that thing as dangerous (or instead of viewing it as dangerous).

Are you any less of a person being bedridden? Morally you'd probably say no (I would too), and society would like you to think or would like itself to say no, despite inferring the complete opposite in hundreds of different ways. It's ironic though in a sense that this is not only powerful from a spiritual sense, but the pain/spasms obviously respond to fear, so the best chance you have of the spasms not happening again is if you don't care whether or not they do (doesn't mean you have to like it, but you can play with what it means in order to reduce the consequences and in turn fear

Very helpfully put! It's about resistance to the situation you find yourself in.

I need to remember the start of my journey out of my mind/body/TMS symptoms... I began by asking my husband to bring me carrots to prepare for our dinner from a tray in bed (at first I could only peel them; my hands and wrists hurt too much to chop them as well). I wasn't looking at this as 'the first step of a journey of 1,000 miles' to recovery from my symptoms; I didn't realise it at the time, but I was starting to accept the situation and make the best of it (though at first I did so through the propulsion of anger and was crying the whole time, throughout that first batch of carrot peeling).

I think (although I haven't consciously thought about it this way) I haven't wanted to kind of 'tempt fate' or remember too much detail about my time being bedridden. I am going to now though, because if I can imagine having a life in my bed, albeit a different life, then it should defuse the fear as visualising the scenario doesn't mean that I will be 'attracting' being bedridden again. There's a book called 'How to Live Well with Chronic Pain and Illness: A Mindful Guide' by Toni Bernhard that I shall revisit because it should help with that. I've never mentioned it on these forums before because the author has never fully recovered from her chronic symptoms and so people are liable to say "where did non-resistance and acceptance get her?!"

The reason to me why the same parts light up is that we were conditioned as children (and there's a biological aspect) to treat those as one in the same, which makes sense from a protection standpoint because if we don't get the emotional support and love we can't fend for ourselves so that is a genuine physical threat. I think Michael would say that we can grow out of this and we are clearly in a different situation (or at least most of us are) that we can for the most part fend for ourselves as adults.

I see and am open to that.

This situation is a bit unique and it's actually a good one, because you're saying I better behave otherwise he might withhold his assistance or hurt me (even then that's probably unlikely - but there is some logic in that).

That definitely all came into my assessment of him and the situation.

In your example (and I have trouble with this too, so this may sound harsh but this is what the teachings have led me to) - who cares if he's rude? We are all the product of our own experiences, trust me in that if you watched his whole life then you'd understand why he's coming across that way or acting that way.

Yes, I decided that although he was rude to me I'd probably get similar treatment from other eye surgeons (whether they be very skilled or not, so I might as well opt for a very skilled one)... A sweeping generalisation and indictment, I know, but most eminent surgeons in the UK are also (as are the upper echelons of the judiciary) from moneyed upper class backgrounds and were probably abused during their childhood at some private (fee paying) boarding school or other, away from the every day care and love from any parent, so it's no wonder they wouldn't necessarily win a personality and 'bedside manner' contest!

The next person you come across could be extremely kind - that has nothing to do with you and everything to do with them.

So true!

If you really embody the mantra of "I can handle it", then you don't need most of the mental suffering and that's a big part of freedom.

I like it and will be adopting it! I was also thinking that it's all about being truly laid back (not lazy, but just being able and willing to go with the flow).

I could go forever but I'll leave it there - hopefully that answers it but please let me know if it didn't

It does and more... you've given me a lot to chew on (I shall be rereading and rereading). Thank you so much!

 

[Adam Coloretti (coach)]

(not lazy, but just being able and willing to go with the flow).

Spot on! And you're welcome

 

[BloodMoon]

@Adam Coloretti (coach) This morning as 'the watcher' à la Michael Singer it struck me (with a "duh! of course!") that that's what Alan Gordon's getting people to do with 'somatic tracking' (to make it more 'palatable' to Westerners). Not sure why I'm bothering you with sharing my realisation as you have things licked, but as the Cat Steven's song goes... "I can't keep it in, I gotta let it out"! lol

 

[Adam Coloretti (coach)]

@Adam Coloretti (coach) This morning as 'the watcher' à la Michael Singer it struck me (with a "duh! of course!") that that's what Alan Gordon's getting people to do with 'somatic tracking' (to make it more 'palatable' to Westerners). Not sure why I'm bothering you with sharing my realisation as you have things licked, but as the Cat Steven's song goes... "I can't keep it in, I gotta let it out"! lol

It's no bother at all! Definitely watching the pain the same way you watch the thoughts - not getting sucked into them each

 

[BloodMoon]

I think this has been my third read, and even though the first two were profound (probably each a year ago apart, so the first one two years ago), this one has hit me in the face to such an extent that it's really stuck - I can't get away from it

I'm finding "I can't get away from it" now too! ... especially with witnessing chattering thoughts as an annoying, rather crazy roommate!

 

[Adam Coloretti (coach)]

I'm finding "I can't get away from it" now too! ... especially with witnessing chattering thoughts as an annoying, rather crazy roommate!

Yes! And we always listen to it...

 

[Rabscuttle]

I'm so glad it resonated!

My practice comes from Michael Singer and "The Untethered Soul" - and his practice comes from the Eastern philosophy. I've read a lot of self-help books and spiritual/psychological books, but after I read this book (and not even the first time, I actually returned to it a few years later and it resonated a lot more), I genuinely don't think I need anything else. I never thought that would happen and I thought I'd be reading these type of books forever (if not for finding the answer just for the sake of curiosity), but this one has stopped me in my tracks and my intuition tells me that it's the truth and the right path.

Reaching a 0/10 has involved simply entering the seat of consciousness (the witness) and observing my thoughts and emotions without judgment (which is essentially what meditation is - although I just do it throughout the day I don't sit down and close my eyes) for long enough that I begin to see how 99% of my thoughts are there to protect me psychologically. We simulate problems in our mind in order to be able to come up with solutions for them - but that's a lot of effort and energy expended for something that hasn't and will probably never happen. I've made the decision that I don't want to devote my life to protecting myself psychologically (we should protect ourselves from physical threats and things that can escalate into physical threats - but most of what we are worried about if we are privileged enough in the western world is what people think of us and other things like that which don't really matter/ we don't actually need protection from, only our egos do). If I can be in that state for long enough (I can only really do it for 5 minutes now before my mind hijacks me again), then the mind goes empty. It happened last night actually (this hasn't happened many times), where I got into that state and my arms almost felt this rush of energy, like I'd been injected with morphine. I started to laugh and got a little bit teary - someone witnessing this would have thought I was nuts! It was an amazing feeling (and it was entirely out of my control) but not something that I'm really exposed to in everyday life where my mind dominates proceedings (which makes more sense to me now).

If I had to summarise the main tactic (and there's more to it than this in terms of explaining why and how this came about), it's based on the idea that most of your thoughts are for psychological protection - if you buy into them and entertain them, the protection gets stronger (this is very similar to TMS wiring). If you let them be but don't get sucked into them (you keep your distance as the witness consciousness, you are not the thoughts but you are the one who notices the thoughts, same with emotions - if you have thoughts and emotions you can't be them - I have a chair so I'm not the chair), they lose their power and they'll eventually cease. Like pain, you're proving to your brain that you don't need that protection.

I like what you said about your potential, because in the state I just described above I've never felt more clear to make decisions. Your intuition is just as much your potential as is your mind (arguably more). Our minds (when used correctly) are also wonderful analytical tools, but we abuse it to solve and deal with our personal problems. This path both unlocks your intuition and also frees the mind to do what it's supposed to do (solve equations and business tasks), rather than worry about what Johnny said 30 years ago because I have to see him again at the school reunion.

In terms of holding a 3/10, that's a great question because you could look at this discovery of mine as both a blessing and a curse. This has highlighted more the unnecessary nature of the 3/10 (beyond it being a stepping stone to get better), and Singer's path is about freeing yourself from the mind completely (it seems that few ever get there, but even if I can get closer it's a very worthwhile pursuit to me). All other tactics involve playing with the mind and trying to make the thoughts better (a 3/10 is better than a 5/10 which is what these tactics might give you) - but if you think about it that's not really doing anything to the fear itself, it is avoidance in an attractive coat. If someone is nervous socially to go to a party, well meaning advice would say things like "it won't be that bad" or "no one cares about you as much as you think" - whilst this may be true (and I'm not knocking it as some people need to start there - it's still an improvement), you're still sort of endorsing and justifying the fear because you're basically saying "it's reasonable to be scared, but here's why what you're scared of won't likely happen". That only fuels the mind as it still thinks it needs protection. It's a paradigm shift to say no, I don't actually need protection from it - because if you don't need protection from it that's the only way you can truly be indifferent - and if you don't care what happens in the party (e.g. you don't care if someone makes a snide remark to you), then you're truly free. It's the exact same thing with TMS, if you tell someone that their symptoms likely won't be that bad when they do a movement then that might be a decent first step, but the ultimate path to freedom is them not caring whether or not the symptoms come (because they know what it is).

I could discuss this forever so I'm more than happy to - but yes all of these ideas and my outlook comes from 'The Untethered Soul"

I just finished the untethered soul. Such a great book, thanks for the recommendation Adam!

 

[feduccini]

Singer recently appeared on an episode of Mayim "Blossom" Bialik's podcast:

 

[Adam Coloretti (coach)]

I just finished the untethered soul. Such a great book, thanks for the recommendation Adam!

You're welcome I'm so glad!

 

[Mani]

"where did non-resistance and acceptance get her?!"

I have refrained from asking a couple of times but id really like to know why you think she hasnt been able to get rid of the symptoms

 

[BloodMoon]

I have refrained from asking a couple of times but id really like to know why you think she hasnt been able to get rid of the symptoms

She says "Do not blame yourself for your condition"—a great point, as there's no fault in whatever creates symptoms (TMS or otherwise). But her core view differs: her ME/CFS hit after a 2001 virus, which she believes stems from never fully recovering.

She does not see the chronic fatigue at all as mind-body tension or a nervous system stuck in fight/flight/freeze/fawn. She views it as a physical, ongoing post-viral issue (e.g., immune dysfunction), managed via Buddhist tools like mindfulness and pacing to ease suffering—not to achieve recovery (though she hopes for it someday, without detailing how).

She also now has osteoarthritis, which she doesn't believe was triggered by stress at all, attributing all associated pain to physical joint changes, none to anger/rage or fear. Her mindset accepts these as "given", not brain-generated.

 

[Mani]

She says "Do not blame yourself for your condition"—a great point, as there's no fault in whatever creates symptoms (TMS or otherwise). But her core view differs: her ME/CFS hit after a 2001 virus, which she believes stems from never fully recovering.

She does not see the chronic fatigue at all as mind-body tension or a nervous system stuck in fight/flight/freeze/fawn. She views it as a physical, ongoing post-viral issue (e.g., immune dysfunction), managed via Buddhist tools like mindfulness and pacing to ease suffering—not to achieve recovery (though she hopes for it someday, without detailing how).

She also now has osteoarthritis, which she doesn't believe was triggered by stress at all, attributing all associated pain to physical joint changes, none to anger/rage or fear. Her mindset accepts these as "given", not brain-generated.

I can hear in your – kinda kinda not – snarky tone that you do not at all agree with her on this haha. This is why i love this forum. Like you just have to be here and youll be convinced you and your grandma have tms.

I have tms. I wish that profession of faith was all i needed — yikes.