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TMS is not about deeply repressed emotions
- Thread starter RikR
- Start date
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- monte hueftle
BruceMC
Beloved Grand Eagle
But those daily repressive behavior patterns are composed of implicit memories formed during childhood before our egos coalesced. I agree with Monte that you have to address those repressive patterns as they operate in the here and now. Just going back and having a primal scream - no matter how emotionally satisfying - won't change those underlying patterns. I do think that the compassion one experiences at the end of a successful ISTDP session is a big step toward dealing with patterns of emotional repression that are going on in your life day in day out. People do love to play at being amateur psycho-archeologists, and that isn't going to lead to reprogramming your emotionally repressive coping styles in the here and now.
I noticed that Bob Evans tailors his therapeutic approaches to the needs of the individual TMS patient:
http://www.tmswiki.org/forum/members/dr-bob-evans.1201/
As Evans notes, the key is remaining flexible. Goodist and perfectionist traits may have developed long ago in response to traumatic early childhood events, but stopping acting on those traits must occur in the present moment. What's that that T.S. Eliot says: "If all time is eternally present, all time is irredeemable"? It's only in the "still moment at the heart of the turning world" that real salvation occurs, at least according to Eliot. It seems to me that Schubiner will work for some TMS patients, while Monte will work for others. Best to have an eclectic group of approaches to recovery in your TMS toolbox.
I noticed that Bob Evans tailors his therapeutic approaches to the needs of the individual TMS patient:
http://www.tmswiki.org/forum/members/dr-bob-evans.1201/
As Evans notes, the key is remaining flexible. Goodist and perfectionist traits may have developed long ago in response to traumatic early childhood events, but stopping acting on those traits must occur in the present moment. What's that that T.S. Eliot says: "If all time is eternally present, all time is irredeemable"? It's only in the "still moment at the heart of the turning world" that real salvation occurs, at least according to Eliot. It seems to me that Schubiner will work for some TMS patients, while Monte will work for others. Best to have an eclectic group of approaches to recovery in your TMS toolbox.
Forest
Beloved Grand Eagle
Like with any other discipline there are several slightly different approaches to TMS, but I don't know if I would say Monte diverts all that much from Dr. Sarno. As MorComm mentioned why we have repressive behavior patterns is a direct result to memories of childhood. Sarno describes TMS as being caused by 1/3 childhood, 1/3 present stress, and 1/3 personality, but these things are not seperate. They are all part of the same beaker. I think Monte's point is that we need to understand how our childhood effects our reactions today. Rarely due people have a deeply repressed memory. It is more about understanding how your childhood developed your personality (goodism and perfectionism), and how your personality responds to current stresses. These three factors all merge together in the present. Another great thread about this is Seeking the Grail by Steve Ozanich.
gailnyc
Well known member
Rik, thank you for posting. I found that very interesting. You're right--it diverges quite a bit from Sarno. He is saying that just knowing about and accepting TMS will not necessarily help you. Sarno says you don't have to make any changes in your behavior, Monte is saying you do. Interesting.
RikR
Well known member
Gail
What I am leaning is that going back into past trauma serves us only as much as it allows us to see how and why our personalities developed that create internal stress and a lifestyle of friction.
Many psychotherapies over the years attempted to guide a patient to the big catharsis and then recovery...only they never worked...well they worked to buy the therapist a new Mercedes.
Like I said in another post: Primal Scream, Freudian psychotherapy and Rebirthing are in a closet somewhere behind Hula-Hoops and 8-track tapes.
So my path for now is to discover all the behaviors, attitudes and beliefs that engender internal stress and send the limbic brain into high arousal. In as much as regressive introspection helps I will do it within limits – I am not going to wallow in old psychic mud just for the sake of feeling it all over again
What I am leaning is that going back into past trauma serves us only as much as it allows us to see how and why our personalities developed that create internal stress and a lifestyle of friction.
Many psychotherapies over the years attempted to guide a patient to the big catharsis and then recovery...only they never worked...well they worked to buy the therapist a new Mercedes.
Like I said in another post: Primal Scream, Freudian psychotherapy and Rebirthing are in a closet somewhere behind Hula-Hoops and 8-track tapes.
So my path for now is to discover all the behaviors, attitudes and beliefs that engender internal stress and send the limbic brain into high arousal. In as much as regressive introspection helps I will do it within limits – I am not going to wallow in old psychic mud just for the sake of feeling it all over again
Dear Lianne
Peer Supporter
I did not perceive him as dumping Sarno at all. Funny how we all see things differently 
but that's what makes the world go round - diversity of opinion and thought is a good thing to me.
I purchased Monte's book and meditations about a year ago. I felt his reference of TMS to the present moment is really an important point to make about our healing process. I think Monte has some really good input. As Forest says here, too, Dr. Sarno refers to the 1/3 childhood, 1/3 personality, 1/3 environment theory. Our inner child has much to do with this condition. I also think it's who we are "in the moment", every moment, that makes us who we are.
Eckhart Tolle focusses on the them of being in the NOW. A must read for us TMS'ers.
Also, Neale Donald Walsh, who wrote the Conversations With God series also wrote a less known book entitled, When Everything Changes, Change Everything. An excellent read with some very thought provoking insights. He writes quite a bit about the current life triggers that cause us to process the event based on childhood experiences and developed beliefs; our subconscious mind reflects back into the past when experiencing something NOW, which causes negative perceptions that are rooted in the PAST to manifest in the mind (and body with TMS).
Thanks for showing Monte's video. I rather like his philosophies. Maybe others here would too.
but that's what makes the world go round - diversity of opinion and thought is a good thing to me.I purchased Monte's book and meditations about a year ago. I felt his reference of TMS to the present moment is really an important point to make about our healing process. I think Monte has some really good input. As Forest says here, too, Dr. Sarno refers to the 1/3 childhood, 1/3 personality, 1/3 environment theory. Our inner child has much to do with this condition. I also think it's who we are "in the moment", every moment, that makes us who we are.
Eckhart Tolle focusses on the them of being in the NOW. A must read for us TMS'ers.
Also, Neale Donald Walsh, who wrote the Conversations With God series also wrote a less known book entitled, When Everything Changes, Change Everything. An excellent read with some very thought provoking insights. He writes quite a bit about the current life triggers that cause us to process the event based on childhood experiences and developed beliefs; our subconscious mind reflects back into the past when experiencing something NOW, which causes negative perceptions that are rooted in the PAST to manifest in the mind (and body with TMS).
Thanks for showing Monte's video. I rather like his philosophies. Maybe others here would too.
Hopeful818
Peer Supporter
Just when you thought you were getting hang of this as a newcomer then this video pops up and completely throws you off your journey.
I feel as though we must focus on childhood memories to understand why we are the way we are today or how that impacted our attitude /behavior today. I agree with this guy that repressed emotions from 20 years ago is not the cause of your pain now but it certainly involved a chain of events to get you where you are today. However, Im not sure if only being aware and not making changes is enough to heal as Sarno suggests. At that end I agree that we must lean how to change our day to day behavior.
I feel as though we must focus on childhood memories to understand why we are the way we are today or how that impacted our attitude /behavior today. I agree with this guy that repressed emotions from 20 years ago is not the cause of your pain now but it certainly involved a chain of events to get you where you are today. However, Im not sure if only being aware and not making changes is enough to heal as Sarno suggests. At that end I agree that we must lean how to change our day to day behavior.
BruceMC
Beloved Grand Eagle
Yes, it agree that changing emotional behaviors in the here and now is the key, not going back down memory row and uncovering whatever emotionally traumatic event set you up for TMS. You can keep doing that forever and never unravel the knot.
Dear Hopeful
I totally agree with YOU.
Tell you all a short story (save the long story for another time lol).
About 3 yrs ago I had crippling spasms all over my body...thought I had m.s.
Fast fwd...went top docs and after every test possible had a top neurologist tell me "it's quite possible this emotionally induced as a your tests are perfect".
I had not yet discovered Dr. Sarno...but I'm weird twist (or was it?) I passed an Indigo on way home and spotted The Divided Mind.
I read it over and over again and in two minths mysmy were gone...I recalled and wrote about my pent up rage from horrific family life.
I know what Rik means...as in The Power of Now....yes wejwe needlneed to trybtry andmand redirectyredirect thecthe neuropathwsyssneuropathwsys toito stop theathe current symptoms from getting worse however..we MUST ...as the brilliant and wonderful Dr. Sarno says...address the pent up rage (if we don't it's like trying to paint a rusty old car with coats of new paint and thinking the end product will be great...it won't...you have to fix the old rusted then sand ..push..THEN apply new paint!)
Just my thoughts....as yes...everyone has insightful I do so it's very interesting!
Peace.
I totally agree with YOU.
Tell you all a short story (save the long story for another time lol).
About 3 yrs ago I had crippling spasms all over my body...thought I had m.s.
Fast fwd...went top docs and after every test possible had a top neurologist tell me "it's quite possible this emotionally induced as a your tests are perfect".
I had not yet discovered Dr. Sarno...but I'm weird twist (or was it?) I passed an Indigo on way home and spotted The Divided Mind.
I read it over and over again and in two minths mysmy were gone...I recalled and wrote about my pent up rage from horrific family life.
I know what Rik means...as in The Power of Now....yes wejwe needlneed to trybtry andmand redirectyredirect thecthe neuropathwsyssneuropathwsys toito stop theathe current symptoms from getting worse however..we MUST ...as the brilliant and wonderful Dr. Sarno says...address the pent up rage (if we don't it's like trying to paint a rusty old car with coats of new paint and thinking the end product will be great...it won't...you have to fix the old rusted then sand ..push..THEN apply new paint!)
Just my thoughts....as yes...everyone has insightful I do so it's very interesting!
Peace.
jokeysmurf
Well known member
I think recovery or healing isn't a one modality application. I think it's kind of an order of operations so to speak. For myself I can relate very much to what Monte says HOWEVER, it would not have been appropriate to apply those ideas in the early stages of TMS for me - no way. Secondly, and I dont mean to undermine this information but it sounds like he is describing CBT. CBT or ACT is very effective way to address anxiety, OCD, stress etc but when you're in the throws of horrible TMS pain, for me, it didn't work until I had done all the Sarno, Schubiner, Gordon work and some Somatic Experiencing first! At the moment I am doing ACT for the residual pain than is generated because of Anxiety and OCD - so I'm disagreeing with Monte it's just that one needs to know when it is appropriate to apply it in their stage of healing.
I do disagree that when Monte says we are not experiencing pain now because of something that happened years ago - i dont think it's entirely true. I think it makes sense that literally we aren't experiencing pain now due to something that happened years ago but I would say that we have learned behaviors (good or bad) as coping mechanisms for things that happened in the past and they are on autopilot for things happening now. Hence the connection of the past to now. This seems like it would make sense to change thought and behaviour patterns which is the root of CBT disordered thinking and behaving.
I do disagree that when Monte says we are not experiencing pain now because of something that happened years ago - i dont think it's entirely true. I think it makes sense that literally we aren't experiencing pain now due to something that happened years ago but I would say that we have learned behaviors (good or bad) as coping mechanisms for things that happened in the past and they are on autopilot for things happening now. Hence the connection of the past to now. This seems like it would make sense to change thought and behaviour patterns which is the root of CBT disordered thinking and behaving.
I just discovered this thread and I just want to say that I think it's great because it gets at one of the key questions I have right now. To what extent is it really useful to go back and re-experience (through memory or imagination or what have you) painful emotions from your past? What the guy in this video says makes sense to me, because I don't sense that a whole lot more "deep exploration" is really going to help me. I need to reprogram myself as I am now. Going to try to listen to some more of his videos to see what ideas he has about how to do that.
JanAtheCPA
Beloved Grand Eagle
It's good to know that Monte's videos are still available, because a recent search for his website was a dead end. However, our wiki has a whole bunch of his old blogs/articles here https://www.tmswiki.org/ppd/Archive_of_Monte_Hueftle%27s_Runningpain.com_updates (Archive of Monte Hueftle's Runningpain.com updates)
The Glossary alone looks like an interesting resource.
The Glossary alone looks like an interesting resource.
It's useful when you don't re-experience them but instead consider why you are pissed off mad about them, try to dig in enough to get to the root, and then let that anger, often childish anger, out about that come out.
I'm pretty sure this is where Sarno was going.
Not doing this is not using TMS principles -- and by TMS I mean tension myositis syndrome not general mind-body theories.
So that is all well in good if you don't want to use Sarno but if you don't want to deal with finding the things that you are hiddenly angry about I don't see the point of being on a TMS forum.
*hiding now from the onslaught of tomatoes that will be thrown my way.
JanAtheCPA
Beloved Grand Eagle
Well, of course I ultimately agree with you, @Booble, but gosh, there's so much room for interpretation and variation - and I feel like I'm seeing @TMUlrich, for example, do some really good work in the short time he's been here. And what you might not know about Monte Hueftle, and I'm pretty sure I have this right, is that he's the one who is actually credited with the timeless and ultimate TMS mantra, which is to think psychologically and not physically. Which of course can be interpreted at a lot of different levels, but it's also so very basically true in all cases.
There's a lot of subtlety in Monte's work, which was pretty ground-breaking back when there weren't too many others re-interpreting Dr Sarno in order to provide more guidelines and reach more people. And, as I think has been pointed out, everything is eventually open to individual interpretation and reinterpretation (as well as misinterpretation) all the time - even OG Sarno!
There's a lot of subtlety in Monte's work, which was pretty ground-breaking back when there weren't too many others re-interpreting Dr Sarno in order to provide more guidelines and reach more people. And, as I think has been pointed out, everything is eventually open to individual interpretation and reinterpretation (as well as misinterpretation) all the time - even OG Sarno!