TMS is not about deeply repressed emotions

[Booble]

Well, of course I ultimately agree with you, @Booble, but gosh, there's so much room for interpretation and variation - and I feel like I'm seeing @TMUlrich, for example, do some really good work in the short time he's been here. And what you might not know about Monte Hueftle, and I'm pretty sure I have this right, is that he's the one who is actually credited with the timeless and ultimate TMS mantra, which is to think psychologically and not physically. Which of course can be interpreted at a lot of different levels, but it's also so very basically true in all cases.

There's a lot of subtlety in Monte's work, which was pretty ground-breaking back when there weren't too many others re-interpreting Dr Sarno in order to provide more guidelines and reach more people. And, as I think has been pointed out, everything is eventually open to individual interpretation and reinterpretation (as well as misinterpretation) all the time - even OG Sarno!

I haven't watched his videos or read his work so I should keep my mouth shut.
It's hard for me to watch people come here to the forum, post questions, get great answers and then use all these alternative approaches as excuses to say, "Aha! See. I should be doing THIS not what you all are suggesting!"
It seems so counterproductive to have all these excuses to feed the TMS beast.
And thus it becomes a waste of time for us to offer our help and guidance.

 

[TMUlrich]

I guess the thing that I appreciate in these videos is the idea that there can be a trap in thinking that your job is to go back into your past and spend all your time trying to "get at the root" of your negative feelings. There's plenty of room for that, of course, but it can also be overdone. It can become yet another method of avoiding dealing with the challenges that face you in the present. And there's a limit to how much of your childhood influences you are going to understand anyway. This makes sense to me. You have to confront your current emotions and tendencies.

 

[Cactusflower]

I guess the thing that I appreciate in these videos is the idea that there can be a trap in thinking that your job is to go back into your past and spend all your time trying to "get at the root" of your negative feelings. There's plenty of room for that, of course, but it can also be overdone. It can become yet another method of avoiding dealing with the challenges that face you in the present. And there's a limit to how much of your childhood influences you are going to understand anyway. This makes sense to me. You have to confront your current emotions and tendencies.

What you need to understand and have compassion for is that you have thought behaviors that were created in childhood that might manifest in personality traits and may create triggers (rage and anger are one of those triggers) and that you may not be aware in your day to day stress levels that these are present. They are little things that can build or "fill the bucket" of rage (or other 'negative' emotions). This is why you do the emotional work. Some people can do less, many people need much more which is why Sarno had them go to therapy. First and formost Dr. Sarno instructs us to think psychologically and he specifically asks us to look at the past, present and our personalities as points of internally generated stress for self awareness. What I have found with most people who want to avoid looking at their past is that there is fear and your mind trying to protect you from the emotions which lay under this fear; dealing with the range, guilt and shame.
You don't deal with it, it comes back to bite you in the ass.
So ask yourself: what are you afraid of?

 

[Booble]

I guess the thing that I appreciate in these videos is the idea that there can be a trap in thinking that your job is to go back into your past and spend all your time trying to "get at the root" of your negative feelings. There's plenty of room for that, of course, but it can also be overdone. It can become yet another method of avoiding dealing with the challenges that face you in the present. And there's a limit to how much of your childhood influences you are going to understand anyway. This makes sense to me. You have to confront your current emotions and tendencies.

Umm, aren't we talking about getting rid of pain and other symptoms that are the result of our mind giving us the symptoms in order to distract us from hidden anger/rage? i.e. TMS?

Sure, we all need our coping mechanisms for dealing with our daily lives and living with our symptoms and it's great if we can help each other with that too, but in my opinion those are just crutches.

For the record, I don't think you can "overdo" finding your hidden anger/rage if you have TMS and you haven't yet resolved your symptoms.
Methinks, TMUlrich, that your TMS beast is doing a darn good job of keeping you away from whatever it's protecting you from.

 

[TMUlrich]

Thanks to you both for your input. Trying to keep everything in balance. I'm aware of my tendency to think that if I just "dig deeper" I will eventually find "the answer," which I think has been a kind of trap for me. But there can be little doubt that it's the patterns that got started in early childhood that are at the root of all the difficulties I face today.

 

[Ellen]

It's useful when you don't re-experience them but instead consider why you are pissed off mad about them, try to dig in enough to get to the root, and then let that anger, often childish anger, out about that come out.
I'm pretty sure this is where Sarno was going.
Not doing this is not using TMS principles -- and by TMS I mean tension myositis syndrome not general mind-body theories.
So that is all well in good if you don't want to use Sarno but if you don't want to deal with finding the things that you are hiddenly angry about I don't see the point of being on a TMS forum.

*hiding now from the onslaught of tomatoes that will be thrown my way.

Yes, digging up the past is only useful if you apply it to the present. If we dig it up just to wallow in the past misery, that is...well, miserable.

 

[Diana-M]

I just discovered this thread and I just want to say that I think it's great because it gets at one of the key questions I have right now. To what extent is it really useful to go back and re-experience (through memory or imagination or what have you) painful emotions from your past? What the guy in this video says makes sense to me, because I don't sense that a whole lot more "deep exploration" is really going to help me. I need to reprogram myself as I am now. Going to try to listen to some more of his videos to see what ideas he has about how to do that.

@TMUrich,
So for what it’s worth, I’m betting the bank on going back and keep going back. I have a bunch of very flared symptoms. I’ve had them for 4 years. I’ve been in intense therapy for my childhood because I just couldn’t put a dent in recovery with plain old Sarno techniques. After 3 years of therapy, I’m still discovering new layers of my childhood issues on a weekly basis. And most of these recovered understandings show me why I act the way I do in my current life. I am sure hoping this all adds up at some point! If not, I’m going to be a much happier mentally healthier crippled person.

 

[TMUlrich]

I can't imagine that it wouldn't help, both psychologically/emotionally AND physically. Actually, isn't the whole point of this TMS/MBS thing that the psychological and the physical are just two sides of the same coin? What I'm experiencing in the short time since I discovered all this stuff is that once you give up the (unconscious, maybe semiconscious) idea that your physical ailments are structurally caused and accept that all your physical symptoms have really just been psychologically caused all along, you are finally forced to go back and face the psychological stuff that you (mind-plus-body composite you) have been avoiding by displacing everything into your somatic symptoms. What happens next I'm less sure about. My sense is that it can vary, because people are different and have had vastly different experiences. Some people might uncover a hidden childhood trauma that was lurking there unconsciously. Others might go through a re-reckoning with their past in some way. I think for others (like me, I think) it can be more a matter of just facing certain patterns that got set up early and have been repeated year after year -- sort of like getting rid of a bad habit or quitting smoking or something like that. But the key thing seems to be the initial move where you become absolutely convinced that your physical symptoms are truly psychological in origin.

That's the way I've come to see it anyway. But you guys are all a lot more experienced in this stuff than me, so I'd be grateful for any kind of subtle (or severe) correction if you think I'm missing something or getting something wrong. I do have the sense that the healing process can take somewhat different pathways for different people.

 

[JanAtheCPA]

What happens next I'm less sure about.

Okay, @TMUlrich, I think that your understanding before this particular statement is pretty good. I'm not going to pick that apart.

Regarding what you think comes next for you, is that you might still be trying to find a way to avoid the emotional vulnerability. Just sayin', because that's the sense I'm getting.

And I do get how this is all very overwhelming and unclear, but at some point you've got to make a choice about the kind of work you're willing to commit to, and then just do the damn work.

Honestly, I still recommend the SEP, because it's so easy to get started. As far as I'm concerned, the only requirement is to pay attention to how your resistant TMS brain will try to manipulate you, and be willing to push back. Brutal self honesty in the writing exercises is essential. Your brain will try to edit what you write and it will try to convince you to avoid writing about certain things. You just have to push through.

 

[TMUlrich]

Thanks for the thoughts, @JanAtheCPA. I'm currently on a little pause from the SEP but I intend to hop back on before too long. For now, I'm kind of in full-on Dan Buglio mode -- you are fine, everything's fine, there's nothing wrong with you, just live your life, etc. I do think there's a lot of wisdom in that. Perhaps it's not enough in the end, though.

 

[Booble]

I can't imagine that it wouldn't help, both psychologically/emotionally AND physically. Actually, isn't the whole point of this TMS/MBS thing that the psychological and the physical are just two sides of the same coin? What I'm experiencing in the short time since I discovered all this stuff is that once you give up the (unconscious, maybe semiconscious) idea that your physical ailments are structurally caused and accept that all your physical symptoms have really just been psychologically caused all along, you are finally forced to go back and face the psychological stuff that you (mind-plus-body composite you) have been avoiding by displacing everything into your somatic symptoms. What happens next I'm less sure about. My sense is that it can vary, because people are different and have had vastly different experiences. Some people might uncover a hidden childhood trauma that was lurking there unconsciously. Others might go through a re-reckoning with their past in some way. I think for others (like me, I think) it can be more a matter of just facing certain patterns that got set up early and have been repeated year after year -- sort of like getting rid of a bad habit or quitting smoking or something like that. But the key thing seems to be the initial move where you become absolutely convinced that your physical symptoms are truly psychological in origin.

That's the way I've come to see it anyway. But you guys are all a lot more experienced in this stuff than me, so I'd be grateful for any kind of subtle (or severe) correction if you think I'm missing something or getting something wrong. I do have the sense that the healing process can take somewhat different pathways for different people.

I wasn't sure about the "what next" either. So I found my hidden anger, now what?
What works best for me is to keep writing after I uncover such that I not only find it, but i understand it and then let it go and live my life.
Sounds kind of dumb but I often draw pictures at the end of my writing, usually the same picture, of little me holding a balloon with the anger inside of the balloon and I draw the balloon floating away.

And like @Baseball65 and others when new pains or symptoms come on I try to tell them -- no need ---.
Initially I did the writing daily. Then weekly. Now as needed.
I do find I often have to write out the same stuff over and over (letting Little Me talk- write) because present situations tends to boil down into similar themes when I break it down. (See the 5 Whys).

 

[Booble]

Thanks for the thoughts, @JanAtheCPA. I'm currently on a little pause from the SEP but I intend to hop back on before too long. For now, I'm kind of in full-on Dan Buglio mode -- you are fine, everything's fine, there's nothing wrong with you, just live your life, etc. I do think there's a lot of wisdom in that. Perhaps it's not enough in the end, though.

That's a good tool in the toolbox.
@Cactusflower recently said something about, "You are safe -- RIGHT NOW" and that helps me a lot.
The health anxiety mind tends to focus on what could happen and it stops you in your tracks even without that thing happening.
Safe Right Now. Live your life.

 

[JanAtheCPA]

I totally use self-talk for sudden symptoms that alarm me, and I find self-talk particularly useful at night for any sense of stomach distress which is one of my common and minor TMS symptoms. I have to get a lot more introspective with the big flares, which these days are expressed in RA symptoms, which is swelling, pain and redness. At other times breathing does the trick, especially for my vestibular symptoms which appear suddenly and disappear just as quickly when I've taken some deep calming breaths. It's a toolkit!

 

[Booble]

I totally use self-talk for sudden symptoms that alarm me, and I find self-talk particularly useful at night for any sense of stomach distress which is one of my common and minor TMS symptoms. I have to get a lot more introspective with the big flares, which these days are expressed in RA symptoms, which is swelling, pain and redness. At other times breathing does the trick, especially for my vestibular symptoms which appear suddenly and disappear just as quickly when I've taken some deep calming breaths. It's a toolkit!

Same same here.
I get this weird one hive that looks like a mosquito bite that pops up on my left arm in relatively the same spot every now and then.
Instead of panicking that I'm having some kind of scary allergic reaction about to happen, I've started to greet and welcome it.

 

[Diana-M]

What works best for me is to keep writing after I uncover such that I not only find it, but i understand it and then let it go and live my life.

@Booble
I have loved your advice on journaling and you your prescribed method including little pictures. It is drastically helping me to understand myself better. And not just the rage and what caused it, but why. In fact, I don’t even have rules anymore on journaling. I don’t always stick to rage topics. I veer off and analyze my relationships and why I respond to people a certain way. I can’t tell you how much it has clarified things. It has put my weekly therapy on steroids because journaling is really a lot like therapy. My therapist can’t believe how much insight I have now that I’m doing this and it’s helping us to focus the work we do together. Win-win!

 

[Cactusflower]

Yep @JanAtheCPA self-talk is a useful tool
Today I have had a "new" symptom. My first reaction was OK, who posted about neck pain on the forum
I physically confronted the symptoms but needed a bit of self-talk to get me there!

 

[Diana-M]

In general, I get the sense that all TMSers seem to have something in their childhood (big or little) that helped set them up for TMS. It can’t hurt to grieve that and rage it out. It also led to developing personality traits that are conducive to TMS. Even worrying. Dan Buglio helps with this. And then it’s all wrapped up in the present. What is triggering the past? It’s a 3-way process to recovery. (I think!)

 

[JanAtheCPA]

I often forget to mention (and remind myself) that current existential stressors are also going to affect our emotional well-being and equanimity. Because let's face it, the world is not great right now. I feel like humanity is suffering from a massive existential crisis that seems to be worse with every news cycle. We had a super clear example of a worldwide existential crisis in 2020. The current crisis might not be as obvious, but that doesn't make it easier for our unconscious psyches to acknowledge, and I believe it's perfect for emotional repression.

Nothin' to do with childhood.

However, make no mistake, our individual abilities to cope with whatever it is that our brains choose to repress always go back to patterns that were laid down in childhood.

 

[Diana-M]

Because let's face it, The world is not great right now

I agree, Jan. The world as it is does not feel safe and our brains know it!

 

[Booble]

@Booble
I have loved your advice on journaling and you your prescribed method including little pictures. It is drastically helping me to understand myself better. And not just the rage and what caused it, but why. In fact, I don’t even have rules anymore on journaling. I don’t always stick to rage topics. I veer off and analyze my relationships and why I respond to people a certain way. I can’t tell you how much it has clarified things. It has put my weekly therapy on steroids because journaling is really a lot like therapy. My therapist can’t believe how much insight I have now that I’m doing this and it’s helping us to focus the work we do together. Win-win!

Yes!
No rules.....! Veer off!
Let the stuff inside go where it wants to go.
I'm so glad to hear you are getting clarity and insights.
Now I look forward to you putting that into practice and getting out there and walking and doing all the things again.
Have you gone directly into asking yourself
"Why do I think I can't walk?"
Go through the process and ....then.....get your butt up and go f'n walk!