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Tips for forgetting posture?

Susan1111 said:
My diagnosis by Dr. Rauchbaum is very new to me and I struggle with not blaming myself.
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Hi Susan, I struggle with this as well. I still have a tendency to think that my pain is somehow degenerative and that I could have done something differently and prevented it. Even day to day, I have a hard time not associating pain with 'doing something wrong.' ... i.e. sitting 'wrong,' running 'wrong,' etc. One mantra that helps me sometimes with this - I'm not sure if it came from Sarno or somewhere on this forum or elsewhere - is: "There's nothing wrong with your neck[/insert symptom], there never was anything wrong with your neck." It sounds really simple, but I think that second part subverts the tendency to think that this has anything to do with damage, degeneration, or injury. It's been psychogenic the whole time.

Also, your symptoms sound very similar to mine. My neck is in constant tension, and it's hard to resist the temptation to adjust my posture or stretch this or way or that way to release it. I mention this because I'm 26 years old with not too much going on MRI-wise. Since we've got the same symptoms, maybe this will help you lose some of the fear regarding your own MRI findings? Maybe the 'degeneration' and arthritis aren't significant. I've got some arthritis in another part of my spine that doesn't hurt at all.
 
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eskimoeskimo said:
Hi Susan, I struggle with this as well. I still have a tendency to think that my pain is somehow degenerative and that I could have done something differently and prevented it. Even day to day, I have a hard time not associating pain with 'doing something wrong.' ... i.e. sitting 'wrong,' running 'wrong,' etc. One mantra that helps me sometimes with this - I'm not sure if it came from Sarno or somewhere on this forum or elsewhere - is: "There's nothing wrong with your neck[/insert symptom], there never was anything wrong with your neck." It sounds really simple, but I think that second part subverts the tendency to think that this has anything to do with damage, degeneration, or injury. It's been psychogenic the whole time.

Also, your symptoms sound very similar to mine. My neck is in constant tension, and it's hard to resist the temptation to adjust my posture or stretch this or way or that way to release it. I mention this because I'm 26 years old with not too much going on MRI-wise. Since we've got the same symptoms, maybe this will help you lose some of the fear regarding your own MRI findings? Maybe the 'degeneration' and arthritis aren't significant. I've got some arthritis in another part of my spine that doesn't hurt at all.
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Thank you so much for posting to me I so appreciate it. There is something comforting in that you are experiencing pain that is similar to mine. Tonight has been extra hard as my neck is flaring and I'm in pain and so uncomfortable. Again I'm thinking it's all my fault because I keep moving my neck around for relief and so the cycle goes. I will try your advice and have a good talk with myself.
 
Been there and done that and left it long ago. I went to extreme of maintaining posture while walking, sitting, sleeping. After couple of weeks I dont know from where or how, I dont even remember which book I read, it just occured to me : "All my childhood, I grew in playing jumping in such position. As I grew up I manage myself to do work in various posture." While maintaining posture I felt less of human and more of Robot. I felt deep inside me that human body is fluid, dynamic, it does ok if you enjoy the journey of life. Then I threw all my new mattress, cushion, sleeping position, sitting cushion...and many more...

In short, it was just simple realization that we, humans, our body are so fluid dynamic and adaptive it manages through various posture given that you are enjoying your life. If you are not enjoying your life then you are forcing your body in some weird posture. So, here cause appears wrong posture but I came to realize wrong posture comes out of wrong perspective on life (repression of feelings, sadness, learned helplessness).
 
Hi, everyone, I am 85, a living example of Dr. Sarno's "gray hairs of the spine." I expect my body to be less than it was when I was twenty or even seventy,
and go along with whatever the Lord sends my way. TMS helped me heal from severe back pain three years ago. I did the Structured Educational Program and journaled and discovered emotional stresses from boyhood when my parents divorced when I was seven. It took security out of my life, but thanks to TMS I was able to put that behind me, mainly by understanding my parents better, and why they divorced (economics in the 1930s) . Forgiving them healed me. In your journaling, think about those who may need to be forgiven. It is a great release from pain.
 
I relate to everything being said on this thread. For goodness sakes, my first grade teacher back in the Dark Ages warned us about bad posture and said my own posture was bad and some day doctors woud need to put pins in these bones. This was a horrifying teacher, and no wonder I was terrified of school from the age of 5! Anyway, even at the gym when I work out I hear the rules and worry I am doing everything wrong, which is a piece of neurosis that made me panic in the first place and incited the pain. Fear of aging and becoming ill was directly related to watching my parents decline. I just turned 60 and feel younger than I did 4 years ago when the pain started.
I got a lot of the wrong kind of reinforcement for being in pain as well. My husband would "joke" that I was decrepit--he's not really nasty, but was frustrated with my chronic pain and expressed it badly. Now we enjoy telling everyone how I was basically cured by a book. I can walk easily. Just have pain in the neck, which is a Freudian conversion reaction!
 
kyrani99 said:
I use to believed that degeneration is a natural process of aging, but in the early 1990's, in one diving group that I took part, there was a lady much older than me (I was early 40's at the time) and she did better than me in our dive. I was very impressed by her and after we got back on the dive boat I went up to her and told her. She said that being active is important but how one thinks is more important. Then she told me she was 90!

Since then I have changed my thinking. Sure doctors see a lot of degeneration in older people but that is not enough evidence to say that degeneration is part of aging. I strongly suspect that the belief in degeneration and aging is a key factor in degeneration as a person gets old, but I have also seen that the older people I have known also have suffered from bad relationships.

Ideas and beliefs are keys from what I have seen and experienced. And it is not about "thinking yourself well" or "the power of the mind over the body". I think that it is a matter of the ideas you entertain and give credibility cause your body to react and thus may lead to either disease or health.
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To live is to age...

As we grow, we all experience loss, trauma etc in life. These traumas are unavoidable and play a huge part in ones aging process. Unfortunately, there is no on/off switch with emotions, as long as we live, breathe we can suffer. That said, we can reduce the impact of preconceived thoughts, ideas, beliefs that can trigger or speed up the aging process.
 
I saw proof today that poor posture does NOT cause pain!

I teach Pilates and this morning I met with a new client. I asked him to lay down on the mat with his knees bent feet flat on the mat....well his head is so far forward (forward head posture perhaps you've heard of text head) that his head would not touch the ground/mat. I placed my usual small pillow under his head and that was not enough... We needed to use an extra pillow so that he could have his head down and then to have his head down without his chin reaching up to the ceiling. I can take it further and say he can't sit on the ground without being rounded over he must sit up on a box or cushions to straighten up. You know what he is NOT in pain just really bad posture!

So although I strive to bring balance and alignment to my body the tip is forget about posture as a cause of pain as it's not poor posture...if this man didn't have back or neck pain I feel safe in saying poor posture is not causing your pain either!

I hope my experience this morning helps someone to breath more easily..
 
counterintuitive. I go to classes at the gym, and I see certain older women who seem not to be doing positions correctly, yet they are not in pain. That is, a good 20 years older than I am, and I am 60!
 
riv44 said:
counterintuitive. I go to classes at the gym, and I see certain older women who seem not to be doing positions correctly, yet they are not in pain. That is, a good 20 years older than I am, and I am 60!
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I see it all the time...I have to close my eyes in the gym...
 
My partner is a professional violin player, I often think about his neck an head posture, but he is perfectly fine!!!! And I am sure he will be fine, as he takes things easy and never worries too much.
So this what stops me from thinking my problems are not related to DDD, stenosis of my neck....
 
I teach fitness classes and when doing deadlifts I see so many rounding their backs. I simply correct them so they will work their backs properly. I used to worry a lot about this before, too. Not so much now.
 
The physical therapist and chiropractor I had both said I have bad posture. I also have reverse cervical lordosis, which the chiropractor said degenerates the spine more quickly. The chiropractor gave me exercises to correct the reverse lordosis but I haven't done it since I stopped all physical activity. In the beginning, I had been trying to correct my posture when at the computer or driving. I actually think it made my neck and shoulders feel lighter and there was not as much strain.
 
Merilu I don't believe there is anything wrong with working towards bringing balance to your body and better posture. Why slouch if you can sit up?!

TMS is believing that the posture isn't causing your pain I don't believe anyone is suggesting poor posture is a good thing as a general statement. I think the question for you is can you work towards better posture without believing it's the cause of your pain?
 
@eskimoeskimo,

Obsessional thinking can also be another form of TMS. It's a somewhat unique form of anxiety and can easily become part of the symptom imperative. I would encourage you to use any techniques you may be using when you notice other TMS sxs (like thinking emotional, talking to brain, etc...) to help reduce it. That being said, the very pernicious nature of TMS is that obsessing about TMS can be a "TMS symptom" too, so to speak. That's why Alan Gordon's essay on Outcome Independence is such a good read. We should use the tools we have to combat our TMS but then muster our courage to carry on regardless.

It is a unique paradox at the heart of TMS work: we must combat our TMS and forget our TMS to rid ourselves of it.

I encourage many of my clients to develop a TMS routine whereby they use whatever techniques that find helpful to combat the TMS but become mindful not to push the routine to an all the time thing (if it's 20 minutes of journaling a day, then it's only 20 minutes of journaling a day and no more) and then we must attempt to act as we would without TMS after that.

Best of luck in your healing journey,

Andrew
 
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