The Presence Process Questions - Has Anyone Here Done It?

[BrianC]

Update:

Week 10

I'm in the middle of Week 10 now. This Thursday will be the last day of my first 10-week Presence Process. I'm no longer worried about finding healing methods to help me anymore. I feel like I finally understand how to heal and am making progress. I'm much more peaceful, joyful, playful than when I started this process, too. I'm still stuck in my head a decent amount, but not nearly as much as before I started. And when I am thinking, it's much more pleasant, rather than being thoughts of how I'm going to fix something or avoid something I don't want to do, etc. I haven't addressed my addiction yet, but that's because the Presence Process recommends you wait till the second time you go through it to start pulling back from an addiction.

A few weeks ago, surfacing emotions made me physically sick for a day. It wasn't bad, actually. It was sort of flu-like--as the Presence Process informs may happen--but not too bad, really. I knew it was emotionally caused, so I just let it be (it was anger all day). I also was sort of sick last Saturday. It was more of being energy drained from surfacing anger all day. I was able to let the anger be, most of the day, so that was very productive. However, that second sickness was most likely prompted by surfacing emotions that came up during an ETT (Emotional Transformation Therapy) session the day before. I met a new friend who wanted to show me how ETT works. I'll be doing a unique ETT session this Friday. ETT is like EMDR, but more effective according to EMDR and ETT practitioners. The Presence Portal has Compassion Works on it and they do EMDR therapy to help emotions surface so people can process them like the Presence Process teaches.

It seems God has orchestrated all of this well. He took me through Recovery (12 Step) first a few years ago. That broke a lot of my pride which opened my mind, big time. It readied me for the Presence Process. The Presence Process showed me a method for letting emotions surface, which I always had trouble with in while doing Recovery (12 Step). Most importantly, it explained to me why you let the emotions come up, and how to be with them unconditionally. That was key for me. Now, I'm excited about difficult emotions coming up so I can be with them and let them integrate. Sometimes, it's really cool when it happens. This has given me tons peace. And finally, through an interesting series of events, I've met someone who does ETT and has offered to do sessions with me for free. I may take them up on that offer eventually, but for now, I've just done that first session and I'm going to do this one more special, unique session, and that's it. Had I not done the Presence Process first, I wouldn't have known how to let the emotions just be, unconditionally, and integrate. I feel much freer and more hopeful now. I'm far less concerned with achieving and trying to "make something" of my life, and far more happy just being me. My subconscious/unconscious and heart likes me a lot better now.

 

[tarala]

Brian thanks so much for these links. I'm in Week 4 now and am still really impressed with the process. It's definitely taken me deeper than everything else I've done (which is an awful lot lol). I'm finding terror rather than anger is the feeling that is so difficult to sit with unconditionally. And also keeping my focus on the feeling rather than the setup. Keep posting!
Cheers, Terry

 

[BrianC]

Update:

I forgot to add that I got some interesting insight.

I've been biting my fingernails as long as I can remember. I eventually figured out that it was caused by emotional issues, but couldn't figure out what exactly.

Well, Saturday, when anger surfaced all day making me pseudo-sick, I noticed something peculiar. When I bit my fingernails, I couldn't feel my anger anymore. I've been so excited about feeling anger and other difficult emotions, I was like, "Awww, hell no. I want my anger back!" lol So, I stopped biting my fingernails and ask myself how I felt emotionally and at the felt-resonance level. I felt my anger again. When I would mindlessly bit my fingernails again, I couldn't feel the anger anymore. It made me very aware of my fingernail biting, helping me stop doing it so I could feel my anger. If someone a year ago had told me stuffed anger caused my fingernail biting, and my eventual love of feeling anger to integrate it would be how I'd stop biting my fingernails, I would've told them they're crazy. lol

This verse is very true: Your thoughts are not My thoughts, and My ways are not your ways.

God's quite ironic about how He does things. The verses about God using the foolish things of the world to confound the world are also accurate, it would seem.

 

[tarala]

Hey Brian, we must be posting at the same time. Reading your post I realized that all the things I've done before were likely necessary for me to be able to do the Presence Process. I never would have handled it before.

 

[BrianC]

Brian thanks so much for these links. I'm in Week 4 now and am still really impressed with the process. It's definitely taken me deeper than everything else I've done (which is an awful lot lol). I'm finding terror rather than anger is the feeling that is so difficult to sit with unconditionally. And also keeping my focus on the feeling rather than the setup. Keep posting!
Cheers, Terry

Thanks for the post! It's great to see what others are experiencing.

I've experienced fear, I think, in the first few weeks of the process, but I didn't full-on feel it like I thought I should. It came out only in grieving, as if I'd gone past the fear to the grieving. I wonder if this is because I've integrated a lot of fear at times over the years in different fearful situations (usually involving driving). Fear is an awesome one to integrate. Michael Brown says, in interviews, that you find the fear first, then below that is the anger, then below that is the grieving. I've been trying to work out why that's the order. I'm not sure why, just yet, but I have my theories. I'm one who likes the mechanics of things, because I like to write or speak about them to others in order to teach. I've always assumed fear was at the bottom, but I think I might know why Michael Brown sorts it out that way. I think he's saying that we experience the fear of feeling emotions first, then we experience our actual fears. Once we do that, we'll find anger, underneath. Anger toward people we blamed during childhood, and beyond, for our current feeling state of unhappiness (mostly anger toward our parents). Once we've gotten through the anger, all that's left is grief--loss of something. Maybe there's grief that we must let go of all of the things we thought would make us happy. That's the only way I've got it sorted out in my head so far.

That's awesome that you also see how God (or Presence or source) has prepared you for this. It's good to see other people coming to the same insights.

Thanks again for your posts. They're great! I'm so glad to hear you're making progress, too.

 

[tarala]

I'm always confused about the order/depth of emotions. I cried (unusual for me) the first three weeks of TPP. It felt like nameless grief I'd never experienced. Now I'm into terror. Maybe anger is next who knows. I think I've given up thinking about it and just assume that the emotions will come in their own time.

 

[BrianC]

I'm always confused about the order/depth of emotions. I cried (unusual for me) the first three weeks of TPP. It felt like nameless grief I'd never experienced. Now I'm into terror. Maybe anger is next who knows. I think I've given up thinking about it and just assume that the emotions will come in their own time.

I had the same thought about it being grief that I was feeling that caused so much crying the first three weeks. Honestly, though, I still don't know what it was exactly. I assumed it was those emotions the Presence Process says are undefined for us, because we were so young when they happened that we didn't have words to describe them or ideas to comprehend them.

Like you, I've gotten to the point where I hardly try, if at all, to figure it out. I just let them come as they come. I'm getting to the point where I assume insight will let me know what I need to know when I'm speaking or writing about these experiences. That used to be hard for me, because I liked figuring this stuff out so much. It's a lot easier for me to not try and figure it out now, though. I have more peace now that I'm not trying to figure this stuff out all the time. Probably more energy, too, but the anger is sapping that. lol

 

[tarala]

Yeah I've always been a super analytical person. Like Eckhart Tolle says, thinking is a bit of a disease! (Or something like that).

 

[tarala]

I felt a bit bad misquoting someone as brilliant as Eckhart Tolle. He actually said "thinking has become a disease." It couldn't be any truer in my case

 

[BrianC]

Tell me about it. It's difficult to stop thinking. I'm a lot better about it now, but I can tell it'll take a lot more work to get rid of it completely.

I'll share something interesting with you. The ETT session I'm doing Friday is called a "spiritual awakening." I told my therapist friend during the first session that I wanted, most of all, to overcome control. She said, "If you want to let go of control, I've got something for you." They use a light box to trigger a "spiritual awakening." It's something ETT therapists only do for people who are very spiritually grounded, because otherwise, they won't know what to think or do about the experience. She said when she did it, the biggest thing that blew her mind is that she couldn't think about anything. When she mentioned this to Dr. Vasques (the guy who created ETT), he said, "Well, your emotions aren't triggering you to think constantly, so your mind is finally at rest. That's how people with healthy emotions are." I was like, "Sign me up!" I'd love to get to that place where I'm not thinking all the time. So, I'm very curious about this experience I'm about to have Friday. She said it can be very bizarre. In fact, they have groups of people who go through it and then meet to talk about the experience. One of her friends saw bubbles floating around that weren't there. I know--sounds crazy, right? I think that's why a person has to be very spiritually grounded to do it. I imagine I'll have the reaction of no thought. Maybe other people experience the lack of thought, too, but it's not as big a deal to them because they don't think as much as me and my friend. Who knows?

I'll post up what happens afterward.

 

[tarala]

Yes, do. That should be really interesting to hear about. I experienced an extended period of "no thought" a long time ago when I spent nearly a year traveling in India. Truly I've spent just about my whole life trying to recapture that experience. Even though my home life now is very peaceful, supportive and harmonious, I'm still triggered by "home."

 

[BrianC]

Yeah, I've been wondering what exactly this spiritual experience will do for me, because I know it's temporary. But maybe it'll have some lasting effects. If it causes me not to think as much, which allows me to live more in the moment, trusting God and His insight, I'm cool with that. That should help the Presence Process work since trying to figure things out is discouraged.

My spiritual awakening when I was 16 only went as far as all of my shame dropping, and a feeling of great joy, peace, and contentment, and a lot of insight. I probably didn't think nearly as much either. That lasted 1-2 years before the shame came back in and caused me not to want to feel anymore, I'm guessing. That dropping of shame was huge. Made me a new person. But I'm not sure what this ETT "spiritual experience" will do. I'll let ya know.

For me, my son still triggers my anger. I don't react as much to it now, though. I'm getting triggered quite a bit tonight since my wife's out of town on business for a day. Responsibility's all on me to take care of him, so I think that adds to the stress/anger.

 

[BrianC]

Update:

I forgot to mention something I've been noticing happening in my body. I'll feel a stressful emotion come up in my head (usually anger, or anger at being overwhelmed). But what's interesting is how my subconscious deals with it periodically. While I'm focusing on it, sometimes, I'll feel it travel from the center of my head or the center of my forehead down to my nose, and then I sneeze and my sinuses get a little messed up for a few minutes or a little while. It's a bizarre sensation to literally feel your emotions travel through your body to a location and instantly cause an issue. Weird. It's a tingly sensation I've been feeling when it happens.

A while back, I felt a very focused emotion travel up from my stomach to my head in nearly a straight line. Such a weird sensation. This used to happen a lot to the people I was working with who had multiple personality disorder. It meant that they were starting to feel their emotions and felt resonances in their body better, which is great progress. This lets me know I'm making some progress, even when I feel the emotion go to my sinuses and irritate my nose, because it means I'm getting better at feeling, which is the goal of the Presence Process. And it's what allows integration to occur, as long as its done unconditionally. My sinuses/allergies are a little better now, but that could be a product of the season changing, so I can't say it's definitely a result of the Presence Process.

Anyone else having these weird sensations?

 

[Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)]

I'm still reading the Brother Lawrence book.

I'm just now sure I'm able to live as pure a life as he did. My thoughts do wander, if not my actions.

A friend told me I'm like a modern-day monk, and that was twenty years ago.

 

[BrianC]

I'm just now sure I'm able to live as pure a life as he did. My thoughts do wander, if not my actions.

Walt,

I recommended the Brother Lawrence book only for the purpose of showing the possibilities of a close relationship with God. The Presence Process facilitates a person in dealing with their emotional issues, which makes it much easier for a person to be in touch with God and their true child-of-God self.

I probably should've explained that actions have nothing to do with purity. And there are no actions a person can do to be pure. It's not a "doing." It's completely an emotional thing, because we're all being driven to do what we do by our emotions (that is until we mature by dealing with our emotional issues, which is what the Bible is asking people to do to be "perfect" (aka - emotionally mature).

First, a person just has to deal with their emotions. That's what Brother Lawrence did for the first 10 years in the monastery. Doesn't matter where he was located, just that he was dealing with his painful emotions head-on. That's what I use the Presence Process for. In the Bible, "perfect" means "mature in thought and action, and a feeling of wholeness--complete." The Bible also says that if a person fears, their heart has not yet been made perfect (mature) in love. The Presence Process teaches a person how to consistently love their self unconditionally in order to integrate all of the dysfunctional emotional charges from ages 0-7. Once those are resolved, a person need only set their intent to get closer to God by simply putting their attention on Him for a bit when they think to do so. Brother Lawrence doesn't teach how to go through the emotional part, but he does clue us in to the usefulness of our attention on God.

Any time you think actions are important and have anything to do with "perfection," just remember that twice, Paul, in Hebrews, says, "All things are permissible, but not all things are beneficial." Some translations say "lawful" rather than "permissible." In other words, in God's eyes, we can do no wrong. He's made everything permissible for us to help us mature our hearts, because even in our greatest dysfunctional actions that harm others, there's growth opportunity for us and even the person we hurt. God's concern is for our emotional development into our natural, unconditional nature. Our actions will follow how we feel in our heart. So the heart is all that matters. Religious folk, and even people of the world, are focused on performance--outward things. That makes it incredibly hard to believe that we can do no wrong in God's eyes. But right and wrong are very religious terms, and very human-developed terms. We grew up hearing them, and so we get this sense of right and wrong. Don't get me wrong, it's not loving to harm other people intentionally. It's not loving to do lots of things we do (most of what we do) because of our dysfunctional, immature hearts. When humans felt pain from others, they determined that what was done to them was "wrong" and "bad." That's where we get those concepts. But when you step back and look at the world through God's eyes, things change. He's in control, pulling the strings behind everything, for the best results for all of us. And His goal for us all is emotional maturity. Even if we never wake up to that reality in this life, and even if we're horrific people while alive, when we die, He remedies that through breaking the atheistks pride through judgment (which is what hell is for), then He continues their purification in heaven. everone else who isn't an Atheist (or isn't openly resisting God) goes through purification (emotional healing) with God right after they die (at least, that's what I've determined throughout my studies and insight).

Don't worry about Brother Lawrence's actions and "purity." That's a trap. All we have to do is the emotional work, and the Presence Process makes that pretty simple and straight forward. All the Brother Lawrence book is meant to show is the possibilities and wonderful benefits of being close to God. I plan to do the Presence Process and set my intention to get close to God, basically.

 

[BrianC]

I'm just now sure I'm able to live as pure a life as he did. My thoughts do wander, if not my actions.

My thoughts wander all the time. The Presence Process and the Brother Lawrence book both mention that. Brother Lawrence said it's normal and just to gently bring your attention back to God's presence. The Presence Process says when your mind wanders, just bring it back to the conscious response, and that it's completely normal. In fact, it says that when you're doing the breathing, the mind wandering is either because you are integrating difficult emotions or your mind is trying to distract you from focusing your attention. Either way, I get the sense from both of these sources that it's normal and nothing to worry about. It's driven by emotional dysfunction, and the Presence Process resolves emotional dysfunction, which takes care of that problem. In other words, wandering thoughts is an effect, not the cause. And the Presence Process takes care of the cause and recommends not worrying about the effects, because they'll work their way out as the cause is dealt with.

 

[BrianC]

Yes, do. That should be really interesting to hear about. I experienced an extended period of "no thought" a long time ago when I spent nearly a year traveling in India. Truly I've spent just about my whole life trying to recapture that experience. Even though my home life now is very peaceful, supportive and harmonious, I'm still triggered by "home."

Tarala,

Have you felt any of the felt resonances? I'm just curious what other people experience them as. The Presence Process only mentions a few of them, not all of them. And I'm not sure if I'm feeling one, two, three, or none at all. I think I'm at least feeling one in my head. Not sure about the feeling I'm getting in my heart or in my solar plexus.

 

[Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)]

JohnBurgundy, I wouldn't work too hard on trying the deep breathing to do it as some say.
There doesn't seem to be total agreement on how long to breathe in or hold it and let it out.

Trying to deep breathe perfectly can negate the benefits.
I am less structured in my deep breathing and it seems to always help me to be calm and relaxed.

I breathe in through the nose to the count of 4, inflating my stomach. I hold it to 6, then let the breath out
through my mouth to the count of 8. You can make the numbers shorter if that's more comfortable.

The important thing is to make the exhale longer than the inhale.

Repeat the deep breaths for at least 5 minutes. Eyes open or closed. This promotes a profound calming effect.

Visualize yourself floating in air or in water while deep breathing, whether sitting or in bed.
When in bed before going to sleep, say a calming, positive mantra while deep breathing.

 

[BrianC]

Walt,

That's a very different type of breathing than in the presence process. The breathing for the Presence Process is supposed to be consciously-connected breathing with no pauses. And while deep, full breaths are encouraged, it says they're not necessary. So the breaths are anywhere from 1-3 seconds in, and 1-3 seconds out, equal length. if you do 2 seconds in, you do two seconds out. i usually am around 3 seconds in, 3 seconds out, but not always. the point is to anchor yourself in your body, with your breathing, so that you're in the present moment. The body's oxygenation is secondary to that. Also, you say in your head, "I... am... here... now... in... this," while you breathe (one word for each in-breath and one for each out-breath). Some people it relaxes, and others it energizes.

 

[tarala]

Brian, I guess I might be confused about what "felt resonance" is. I'm only in week 4, but I have been understanding it as pure emotion felt in the body, without labels, stories, resistance, etc. Is this right? I've certainly had much more sadness than I usually would experience in a whole year, and it has no memory attached, nor is it related to my current experiences. I just feel sad and start crying, seemingly out of nowhere. I have been thinking this was was is meant by felt resonance.

As for breathing, I'm a bit confused here too. One of my TMS things is asthma and allergies, which I have had since childhood. A year ago I got one of those respiratory trainers (I use Frolov), which target people who "over breathe," and within about seven months I was totally asthma and allergy free. But I still see the symptoms as TMS, since I think that over breathing is something I do when stressed. So I wasn't certain about TPP instructions since I've spent all this time making sure my exhales are longer than my inhales, and decreasing my number of breaths per minute! But then I just let it go and focus on tension or pain in my body while letting the breathing do as it will. I think my question is: is Michael Brown's breathing pattern (equal inhales and exhales, and no pause) really important itself, or is it just a way of getting one to stay in the present by focusing? Certainly many yoga systems teach a longer exhale, and also that where the pause is in the breathing is where the mind stops.

Despite all this, I'm really feeling a lot of benefit just from four weeks worth, more relaxation, and periods of feeling really good. Thanks again for bringing it up in the forum.