1. Alan has completed the new Pain Recovery Program. To read or share it, use this updated link: https://www.tmswiki.org/forum/painrecovery/
    Dismiss Notice

The Presence Process Questions - Has Anyone Here Done It?

Discussion in 'General Discussion Subforum' started by BrianC, Apr 21, 2014.

  1. BrianC

    BrianC Well known member


    Yesterday, I felt anger come up in my chest. I went ahead and made sure I felt it for a while, putting my focused attention on it as best I could. Currently, my mid-back, at the level of my chest, slumps a little unless I consciously try to keep it straight. But it takes so much effort to keep it straight, I can't do it for very long. Well, when I felt that felt-resonance of anger emanating from my chest, I wondered if it would act like my sinuses acted when I addressed the felt resonance of anger in my head, behind my sinus cavity. Sure enough, as I felt the anger and it started to integrate, it was easier to hold my posture all day instead of slumping all day. In fact, my posture was just a little straighter even when I wasn't consciously holding it straight.

    It seems that when these emotions start to flow, we gain their energy/fuel for their natural purposes, such as strengthening our muscles, pulling them into normal, healthy positions. I guess that's why Michael Brown mentions that we start to stand up straighter (posture corrects itself) as we go through this process. In an interview, he also says that when he was taking people through this process early on, he noticed that about 8-9 months after they finished their first 10-week session, they started feeling quite a bit better, as if they'd gone through an approximate 9-month-birthing period and emerged at the end, freer than before. How interesting. It reminds me of Jesus saying that we must be "born again" to enter the "kingdom of heaven." (He's talking about entering the Kingdom right now, present tense, not future. The Kingdom is basically representative of connecting with eternity right now. It's "eternal life" being lived in the "eternal present moment.")

    After that 9-month-birthing period, Michael says people usually do the process over again and experience it a whole new way. He recommends waiting at least 3 weeks, though, to start the process over, so we don't have to wait 9 months.

    This is really cool. I'm getting more and more confident at letting emotions come up. It's a lot of fun, even when difficult emotions are coming up. It doesn't always feel good, but just knowing the joy and peace that lies beneath those emotions makes the process fun. I'm really enjoying this.
  2. Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)

    Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021) Beloved Grand Eagle

    You put it so well, Brian, "It's 'eternal life,' being lived in the 'eternal present moment.'"

    God is inside us. Heaven is inside us. We just have to accept it and feel it. Now, this very moment.
  3. BrianC

    BrianC Well known member

    True. I can't wait for the emotional charges in the way of my feeling His presence to integrate. Brother Lawrence went through 10 years of emotional termoil because he kept his attention on God. But after that, it was God's presence all the time. He went through emotional issues at times, but God's peace was always there with him. The 10 years of pain sounds so contrary to what we usually think of a relationship with God. lol Guess that's why God says in the Bible, "Your ways are not My ways, and My thoughts are not your thoughts. We see life so backward from Him usually.
  4. BrianC

    BrianC Well known member


    I wonder if those hot baths before sessions brought out some deep emotions that got me sick. lol I'm running a 101.8 temp. That's good. Maybe some emotions are integrating. The PP book says the body heats up when emotional charges surface, and then cools down when they integrate (or pass...I forget). We'll see.
  5. BrianC

    BrianC Well known member

    I forgot to mention that I can't take credit for the "eternal present moment" saying. I first heard that from Anthony (Tony) de Mello. But I'm sure he heard it from some Eastern Philosophy folks first. I think since Abraham was Eastern philosophy (not religion but philosophy), Eastern philosophy gives more depth to the Bible, because it contains many things we Western-minded people lost throughout the centuries. Anthony does an excellent job speaking about this subject. He grew up in the East, but became a Catholic priest. The Cahtolic church distanced itself from him after he died, because they didn't like his Eastern philosophy (that's probably a good sign - lol). He's drop-dead funny and a delight to listen to. He died in the 80s, but there are a few videos and some audio of his talks. I used to listen to it when driving on trips or running errands.

    On YouTube, search for "Anothy de Mello awareness part 1." It's 8 parts, each about an hour. It's from a 2 day retreat he did in '86. It's the best of the videos and audio of him, in my opinion. Here's a link to the first one:

    Anthony de Mello - Awareness (Part 1)
    Last edited: May 23, 2014
  6. BrianC

    BrianC Well known member


    Well, I had another conscious integration a few days ago. I was sitting alone, letting a feeling (kind of like anger) resonate in my chest. It did exactly what the anger resonating in my head did before--it converted to joy! Very interesting. This makes it exciting for me to let more emotions come up so I can see what will happen. Last time I had anger convert in my chest, it was right at the level where my back slumped a bit (the heart level). And afterward, I stood up straighter more easily when I'd try to, and my posture was altogether better when I wasn't trying to straighten it up. So some of that energy got unblocked and went to good use holding my posture closer to where it should be. Pretty cool stuff!

    Emotions are energy-in-motion. And when they get stuck, our energy is stuck. When that specific bit of energy gets triggered by events, it comes up and repeats its pattern. But, when we let the energy be in motion by unconditionally being with our emotions that come up, no matter how uncomfortable they are, the energy starts to flow again, because we're not blocking it anymore. Then we have lots of energy to use for whatever we need at any given moment. Before, the energy was stuck, so we had far less energy to fuel us and our purpose (assuming we knew what our purpose was at any given moment).

    Michael Brown, in one interview, said that after he sat with his emotions for a while (and, I assume, had integrated a lot of them), he realized that they were just energy that he'd put conceptual labels on like anger, grief, and fear. But they were just energy, and that energy could be used however he wanted to use it once it was all flowing as it was designed to do. That's why his second book was called Alchemy of the Heart. Alchemy is turning one thing into another. So he's talking about turning anger/fear/grief into whatever else we need them to be to do our purpose at any given moment.
  7. Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)

    Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021) Beloved Grand Eagle

    Brian, thanks for sharing that amazing change you felt by allowing your anger emotion to turn to joy.
    And as I used to hear in the Army, you were "Standing Tall."

    Is it possible for you to write the steps you took in that process? It could help others to try it.

    You could do that in a reply, if you want to.
  8. BrianC

    BrianC Well known member


    I only did what the Presence Process describes, which is to sit with the emotion and the felt resonance beneath it. The felt resonance is whatever sensations you feel in your body while the emotion is present. Sometimes, you feel only the felt resonance and you have to ask yourself, "How does this make me feel on the emotional level?" Then the emotion will come up immediately, or it'll manifest later. If you only feel the emotion, you ask yourself, "How does this make me feel on the felt-resonance level?" Then the felt-resonance sensation will arise (if not immediately, sometime later, at the right time, it'll arise). That's important to do. Once, while breathing, I had a pain come up in my shoulder. As soon as I asked how it made me feel, the pain went away right as an emotion came up to replace it. In other words, that pain was caused by an emotion that needed to be experienced by me. The emotion came so the pain left.

    When I feel the emotion and felt-resonance, I put my focus on them without any expectations of them. I give them my unconditional attention as best I can. This is "unconditional love." I don't seek to change them, suppress them, get rid of them, or distract myself from them. I just let them be. Sometimes, I will imagine a 7-year-old version of myself, or younger, having the exact emotions and I'll place myself into his perspective (in my imagination, of course), as if he's talking to me. I'll voice his emotions--how he feels, as if I'm him (because I kind of am). I do this for just a short time to help bring the emotion fully present in my body. I be with the emotion in an understanding, empathetic way. It won't necessarily convert (integrate) immediately. I might have to let this emotion come up several times over several weeks or months for it to finally integrate when it's ready. Or, it could integrate the first time I put my focus on it for a while. There's no way to know if I've sat with exactly the same emotional signature before, so when one integrates/converts, I don't know if I've been working on it for a while or if that's the first time.

    If I have any story's that my mind tries to tell me about why I'm experiencing the pain, I let those go. The story doesn't matter. If I attach the emotion to the story, I've bound the emotion making sure it'll stay stuck. But if I see it as just an emotional charge that needs my unconditional love (unconditional attention), then it'll eventually integrate/convert.

    I hope that helps. That's all I do. Most of that is described in the Presence Process. Me putting myself into the shoes of the 7-year-old me is a little bit more like what I used to do with multiples. I just incorporated it to help me anchor the emotions more fully in my body. The Presence Process says that most people can just be with the emotions for them to integrate, but it says some people have had good results from picturing a 7-year-old version of their self feeling those emotions, then you pick that 7-year-old up and hug him while he is upset or crying or whatever. Crying is good. It symbolizes the commencement of integration of the emotion.

    One still needs to read The Presence Process and follow it's 10-week guide rather than just do what I described. Each week is different and one has to go through all 10 weeks to see the benefits. And you don't get to see the full benefit till 8-9 months after you've finished. The breathing brings up the buried emotions for integration. There's a One-on-One recorded session that teaches people how to do a 40-day thing for becoming aware and integrating emotions. It's pretty cool. It can be done in addition to the Presence Process. It teaches how to do this emotional integration, as well.

    Hope this helps!
  9. tarala

    tarala Well known member

    Hi Brian and everybody,
    I’m so glad you’ve been discussing the Presence Process. I’ve just returned to work and family after a long time overseas when I was pretty much TMS free. When I returned home the TMS came back with a vengence. I guess I can run but I can’t hide. :eek: This forum has been a godsend to me in the past, so I thought I’d better get back on, and have been reading your posts about the Presence Project with great interest. So I’m now in week 2 and already it’s great. I’m beginning to process emotions that I’ve been dismissive about in the past, because they seemed unreasonable in the current situation. The first month I was back I had an almost overwhelming desire to just run away again, just to make things better. That’s changed so that now often when I feel pain I can begin looking for emotion and making sure I’m in the present, so the pain is becoming more of a help and less of a hindrance. Anyway, thanks for your posts and keep up the good work. I think being able to hear how others are going with it will help me stick with it.
  10. BrianC

    BrianC Well known member

    Hi, Terry,

    That's awesome that another person is doing the Presence Process with us. We look forward to hearing what you experience throughout the process!

    It has definitely helped to hear others post about it. I read the entire Presence Process thread from the old TMSwiki site (looks like only 5 pages, but it's actually 15 pages). Keep in mind, most of those people are using the first edition of the Presence Process, which was considerably different than this new revised edition. You can find it here:

    Old TMSwiki Presence Process Thread

    You've probably already figured out that being around your family again is what triggered your TMS. I think Eckhart Tolle said, "If you think you're perfect, go hang out with your parents." lol That's awesome that you know how to deal with those surfacing emotions now! I'm having an easier time being around my parents now (I must have integrated some of the triggered emotions already). I probably have lots of work still left to do (or should I say "not-do" - lol) in that area.

    I'm nearing the end of week 8, so I'm almost done with the first round of the process. After I finish, I'll wait three weeks and do it again, but I'll start to remove my addiction slowly the second time so the emotions its covering can surface. I've found some of the triggers for it already, which is allowing me to sit with those emotions when they come up. So, I'm getting a slight head start on it now. I've noticed that its frequency has lessened. Helps to sit with the emotions when they get triggered and let them be.

    Good luck! Can't wait to hear what you experience throughout the process.

    - Brian
  11. njoy

    njoy aka Bugsy

    Brian, it's good to meet you. I am absolutely fascinated by what you said about multiple personalities: "I used to work with people who had Multiple Personality Disorder (MPD/DID). It always frustrated me that I knew how to help them integrate their personalities and completely heal, but I couldn't use their method on myself since I wasn't multiple. When all of their personalities would integrate and they became one person again, they would lose tons of weight very quickly and get back to their normalized weight without any dieting or exercise. All of their illnesses and diseases would go away, even terminal ones. Sometimes their eyesight would change so they didn't need their glasses anymore (they could actually switch personalities and they wouldn't need their glasses, as well. Even their eye col"or would change when they switched personalities). They felt peaceful and happy. Their lives, in general, got very good, more or less."

    Have you written about this elsewhere (or has anyone else who used the same methods?) -- I would love to learn more. I've been doing parts work with Internal Family Systems and Voice Dialogue and am very interested in learning how "parts" correlate to "personalities". So far, they seem much the same except personalities are much more developed. When I was a crisis line worker, I had many calls from a person with multiple personalities. Completely by chance, I happened to meet her on the street. I recognized her (can't explain how) and she noticed and changed personalities right in front of me. It was like a magic trick -- she melted into the crowd and now being someone entirely different, I couldn't find her.

    Also, thanks for pointing us toward the Presence Process. I like your spiritual approach. I have known there is life after this life since I was a little kid (even during my teenage "atheist" phase) and look forward to hearing your ideas.
  12. BrianC

    BrianC Well known member


    Nice to meet you. Glad you found our discussion.

    Thanks for sharing that story. That's awesome. Multiples are usually very talented, especially at blending.

    You'll love the book The Shining Man with Hurt Hands by Ellis Skolfield. That's how I learned how to help multiples, and from some phone conversations with Ellis. However, I didn't have the emotional maturity to fully help them back then, so I was only successful in helping one person fully integrate (an easy case as opposed to all my other cases who were SRA victims--Satanic Ritual Abuse). You'll love Ellis's book. If you think what I've discussed in fascinating, just wait till you read the book and see the multiple's inside worlds. Thoroughly fascinating! The book is very uniquely written. You'll see when you start reading it. Enjoy!

    I grew up Christian and have done tons of research and study into it, so that's had a lot of influence on me. However, God put me through a lot of really tough times that humbled me, opening me up to see that He works with everyone, regardless of religion, on their level. Jesus hung out with the non-religious people, having no problem with them at all. It was only the religious He spoke out against, I imagine because they were trying to put God in a box and be exclusive. If shame had never come into the picture, I doubt religions would've ever come about. Religions tend to try to quail shame.
  13. Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)

    Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021) Beloved Grand Eagle

    You're a great guide to the Presence Process, Brian, and to healing with faith in God.

    I can't imagine having multiple personalities. One is enough for me!
  14. BrianC

    BrianC Well known member


    I apologize for the size of this post. I didn't go back through this post and try to condense it. These abstract subjects are difficult to explain quickly.

    Psychology is very abstract, so I can't give you certain information regarding parts and personalities. All I can do is share how I see it. I could be wrong.

    I think everyone has uncomfortable emotions that come up as children, and they end up pushing away those emotions, because they're scared to feel them. Some kids have such a capacity to do this that they have hard splits, each with its own personality (this would be a multiple). But really, that personality is just an emotional charge that's stuck, unable to flow as it was designed to do. This "hardens" the heart, making it unable to feel all emotions properly. Inherent joy and peace become unable to be felt the more that happens. So people end up on this pursuit of "happiness" through things outside of themselves in order to quail those uncomfortable emotional charges. We can't get elsewhere what we already have inside, though (joy and peace). We have to start feeling all of those emotions, unconditionally, for as long as it takes, without trying to banish them. Then, they'll integrate when the time is right. That's what unconditional love is--accepting without conditions, and being with without conditions.

    If a child's upset, we don't banish him. We sit (be) with him until his anger passes. If we try to make him feel better, we've just subconsciously told him that his emotions are not okay with us and aren't normal or proper. We've taught him to restrict his true self. But if we just be with him, his emotions will naturally come back to balance, and he'll see that we accept him and his emotions as they are. We validate his experience. And that's a picture of how our heart works. Each emotional charge can be thought of as part of a little child who hasn't matured yet (7 yrs old or younger). In this Presence Process, we're learning that we can sit (be) with our emotions when they come up. We can feel them completely, unconditionally, along with the felt resonances that pop up along with them, and they'll get "unstuck," I guess you could say. They'll flow. We get access to that part of our feeling capacity at that point. Talents can be bound up in these emotional charges, too. When multiples split, they'll sometimes lose talents that were associated with the emotions that split off. Same with us.

    I think everyone is "multiple," in a way, but not with full-on split personalities. Everyone's pushed away parts of themselves, which makes for "hard hearts." Hearts that can't feel properly, and bodies that don't feel the resonances in them causing physical damage. When I would help multiples, they'd make some progress emotionally, and suddenly they'd be able to feel the associated felt-resonances traveling through their body or sitting in a certain part of their body. I've felt that before, too, when I opened up myself to feel more fully. But when a really strong emotions I don't like comes along, I've ended up suppressing it, and my ability to feel along with it. I'm hoping those uncomfortable resonances come up again so I can fully feel them again now that I know how to deal with them.

    I used to dialogue with "parts" of myself before. I even developed a method for muscle testing to get to the core of why that part of me was feeling what it was feeling. Then, I'd deal with it in a loving way, and whatever problem in my body (like straining tendons or muscles or candida) would go away immediately. I healed a few physical problems I had using this method. Did so very quickly. But I found limitations and difficulties with that method, so I stopped using it and stopped teaching it to people. There was too much "control" on my part, and an intention of getting rid of my pain instead of accepting it. I decided that the Presence Process was a much better way to do it. If I find that I can't function as a husband, father, or worker, then I resort kind of to that old method briefly to help deal with the physical problem that's getting in my way. I shifted the way I do it, though, so conform to the general premise of the Presence Process, so its done in a more healthy way, I believe. I still don't like using it, though, because it's seems like it's born out of fear, impatience, and a lack of trust in God or my child-of-God self. I use it as an absolute last resort. I think feeling pain physically and emotionally is the best thing I can do, so I try not to alter that pain now. I want to feel it and the emotions and felt resonance beneath it. The only way to heal is to go through it. This Presence Process journey isn't about feeling better but about getting better a feeling. And that's very unpleasant sometimes, but it's so worth it! I've felt what it's like to have emotions integrate and it's awesome. I'm committed to feeling pain as best I can, because I now know how to deal with it. I didn't before, so I had to try to escape it somehow.

    I don't dialogue anymore unless I feel it's necessary to better anchor an emotion in my body. I explained that a few posts back. Dialoguing is usually me trying to intellectually convince and control a part of me. Integration (peace) isn't about manipulation or control, though. It's just about being with what is. Those emotions are what "is," so I need to "be" with them as best I can, without dialogue (doing) whenever possible. That's true for me, but may be different for you. I don't know. This is just what insight I've come to personally for me.

    With multiples, what was really healing them was that they were allowing Presence or God to bring out their emotional charges (alternate personalities), and they were being with them, unconditionally, as long as it took. Eventually, that unconditional acceptance (love) would cause integration to occur. It's that simple. And it's that simple with us, too (The Shining Man book didn't explain that, so I had to figure that out on my own, and did so just recently). We just can't go "inside" like they can. That's good, though. We need to "do" less and "be" more. "Being" means to "not do." God says, "Stop striving and know that I am God" (or "Be still and know I am God"). That word "know," in Ancient Hebrew, means an intimate heart-knowing, not an intellectual knowing. Unconditional love is a state of being, and within it are joy, peace, and contentment. We do nothing to get them. That's why I think "not doing" is so important. I'm so tired of "doing" that it's nice to "not do" for a change.

    Hope that makes sense. Thanks for your post! It's fun to talk about multiples again. It's been a while. And it's fun to try to explain this stuff conceptually, as well. Helps me seat these concepts in my mind and better convey them in the future.
  15. BrianC

    BrianC Well known member


    Thanks for saying so, Walt. You're very kind.

    Holy moly, that last post from me was huge. Maybe I should've taken the time to edit it. It's hard to edit down some of this stuff, though, and still give a good picture of it.

    You know, my mind still wanders a lot while I'm doing this process, but I imagine that will resolve in time, the more I do the process. I bet that'll be something that will change either after I finish, or 8-9 months after the first time through the process. That's when people say they feel like they've gone through a change. (8-9 months, like a birthing period, oddly enough).

    Thanks for listening to my information dumps. I'd rather them be here than in my novels. lol
  16. tarala

    tarala Well known member

    Hi Brian,
    Thanks for the reply. Actually, it's not my parents, but my partner and grown kids who are triggering me at the moment. I think I didn't feel much at all in the way of anger or sadness (thought I didn't have any :oops: ) until my kids were born. Then I spent about 15 years being very angry. I recognized that it wasn't always about them, but it didn't stop me being reactive towards them. Then after a lot of Eckhart Tolle, Byron Katie, Abraham, 12 Step, etc etc I stopped when I began to acknowledge how damaging it was to my relationship with others. I would still feel anger, but dismiss it pretty quickly through a mental process of changing my thinking. What a surprise, that's when my TMS popped up. I've gotten pretty quick at pushing down the emotion, but the Presence Process is helping so much I can't believe it. I'm allowing anger and sadness so much more now, and recognizing that things in the present are just reflections of emotion that is already there, and has been for a long time. I'm so glad you started posting about it on the forum.

    Thanks again,
  17. BrianC

    BrianC Well known member

    Oh, your kids and partner triggered it. My son is what triggered it for me. I was in Recovery for 2 1/2 years as a result. I saw, at some point, that I'd exchanged my addiction for Recovery groups, and that wasn't good enough for me. I wanted actual healing so that I wasn't dependent on anything. I've looked for how to heal for such a long time. The Presence Process has been such a blessing.

    I'm so glad you found this thread. It's great to hear other people's experiences with the process. Thank you so much!
    Last edited: May 29, 2014
  18. Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)

    Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021) Beloved Grand Eagle

    The Presence Process looks like it's gotten more replies than anything ever posted on the Wiki.
  19. BrianC

    BrianC Well known member

    That's probably just because I post too much. lol
  20. BrianC

    BrianC Well known member

    Found a couple of things people my be interested in:

    At Advance Yoga Practices, I found a 7-page thread on The Presence Process

    In that thread, I found a radio show link where Dr. Murphy is talking about the Presence Process:

    The guy who posted that radio show link said the radio show goes over all 10 weeks of the Presence Process, one week at a time. Michael Brown and Dr. Sarno are interviewed on the week 2 show. I don't know how many weeks Michael Brown is on the show. Might be interesting, though. I only listened to week 1, and that's Dr. Murphy describing, figuratively, how and why the process works. He does a good job of summing it up. I'll listen to week 2 soon.

Share This Page