The Presence Process Questions - Has Anyone Here Done It?

[tigerlilly]

Annie is so fortunate to have such a loving owner! Isn't it wonderful to spoil them? My husband and I chose not to have kids, so our pets are our kids......the best kind of kids........they don't talk back to you. They love you no matter what!!

We watched Philomena last weekend. GREAT movie. Great acting - Judi Dench is gifted to be sure. You'll enjoy! We had fun looking up the "true" story online afterwards to find out what actually happened!

 

[Pandamonium]

Pandamonium,

Thanks so much for your response!

The breathing is a bit tricky for me, because my nose is usually not clear, so I have to breathe through my mouth. It dries out and I have to swallow several times and maybe take one drink during a session. And sinus drainage has me swallowing periodically, too. Do you think it's okay to take an antihistamine to dry up my sinuses so I can breathe through my nose for the sessions? That seems like it would help.

I like the pillow idea for sitting. Thanks. I'm having trouble finding a good sitting position where I can keep my back straight (my posture isn't great, so I adjust periodically). The PP says it's important not to move while breathing, so I'm finding this difficult. I always have itches that pop up or adjustments I need to make because of arising pains. The PP says it's all drama and not to react to it. I know it breaks my attention on present moment awareness to move and scratch, but I have to take care of them usually, because they're so irritating or distracting. But I'm not sure what I can do at this point. I'm just making the best of it for now. Did you have a problem with this?

The second revision of the PP says to reduce (or stop) the addictive behavior somewhere around week 7, I think. I can't remember exactly.

After a breathing session is complete, did you have emotions come up that you had to sit with for a little bit each time?

When I finish a session, I've had some different things happen:

1. I shake sometimes. Not little shakes, but big movements. It's almost like it's fear, but I don't feel the fear.
2. I usually cry (often tearless). And sometimes when I shake, I cry, too. The shaking hasn't happened often. I'm pretty sure I was warmly dressed enough, too, but maybe not. It didn't seem like shaking I do when I'm cold.
3. I get a burning sensation in my stomach.

I'm pretty sure the burning is worthlessness and shame and anger toward myself for being worthless. I know I'm not worthless, but I think when I was a baby, I felt worthless due to some things I saw happen repeatedly at that age. I felt fear and anger and shame, too, I'm pretty sure. I thought I was a burden to others and that others would be better off if I were to just die (at least I think that's what I felt). I know I felt that way when I was 22 (almost 13 years ago), because I tried to kill myself. Those emotions seem to be a reoccurring theme with me every so often. From the time I was a baby, I did my best to suppress (control) my emotions. It's very difficult to just let loose and completely feel and just "be." I'm very insecure on some levels, and not so much on other levels. It doesn't help that no one's calling me to do jobs for them right now, either (subconsciously makes me feel worthless, and scared due to money being tighter).

How did you feel after your first time through the PP?

How did you feel after your second time through it?

Thanks so much for your help.

Hi Brian,
sounds like you have got a lot of stuff to process and no wonder the PP is affecting you, there might be layers on layers of emotions there.
The burning sounds a bit like anger to me.
I cant remember having any powerful physical effects after the meditation, sometimes I felt sad, often I questioned if it was helping me, was I breathing right etc but in the end I just trusted myself and the process and went with it, wherever it took me.
If you think the fidgeting etc is bad now, wait till the water submersion, those minutes feel like hours, it was by far the hardest part for me. Yes, I did struggle with that too.
After the first PP I just knew I wanted to do it again, I waited a few months and did it again. Then I felt ok, my pain was gone. I planned to do it a third time but it's quite a commitment. I did it before because I was desperate, now I am 100% in good health I think it would be nice to do but its not needed right now. I guess I will know when the time is right to do it again.

Good luck with your journey.

 

[Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)]

Pandamonium, what PP program did you use? I'd like to know more about it.

Brian is such a great guy.

 

[docsklar]

hey all,
john sklar m.d. here. glad to see you all still working with the presence process after i introduced it here many years ago. i have done the process 6-7 times and have done with groups and had the experience of seeing others work the process. have recommended to tms patients in my practice and received feedback from them also. so i am well versed in this area - the presence process and tms in general. brian - good work. you get it! the process and many other teachings tell us that the way to freedom is to face the things we had previously deemed unfaceable so we repressed them. all of this repressed material has to come up and be experienced(opposite of how we initially handles it thru repression) and then we can be free. it is this repressed material that causes tms and in fact all illness. so in my simple mind all illness is tms and can be dealt with by facing the causal substance - repressed emotions. this is not to say that all we need do is face the emotions. in the case of cancer we may need to also use chemotherapy etc. to buy time to do the emotional work. when the issue is pain the path is clearer and the medical profession has less to offer. and the emotional work looks like not running and instead facing whatever emotions may come up. the hardest bravest work a person can do - choose the pain and choose to feel it - counter intuitive really. and when we do after the first couple of encounter we will usually realize - "hey, that wasn't so bad" or at least "i'm still here"(because what we really fear is that the pain(physical or emotional) will end us - one famous psychologist once said that all anxiety is death anxiety) - and then we have more courage to face the deeper and deeper issues. so bit by bit we digest/integrate the pain of our past experiences and it no longer runs the show from it's subconscious hiding place. and as we fully experience these emotions we come to know that anything experienced fully/completely turns to joy/bliss. so we transmute the pain into joy. we become the alchemists of ancient lore who know how to turn lead into gold!!! so be courageous and do the work of facing your pain - it is the only way out - anything else is just treading water(you stay alive and you don't get too far) as opposed to learning to swim and eventually learning to fly.
doc sklar
i will follow the thread here and help you on your paths as much as possible.

 

[docsklar]

brian,
i hear you wanting to know if you are doing the process right. if you are doing it at all you are doing it right. you can't do it wrong. doing the process is a heroic endeavor. what matters is that you have made a choice to face your demons and continue to make that choice on a daily basis. just continue to make that choice and you will go far!
doc sklar

 

[docsklar]

several have asked questions about the breathing. follow the instructions to the best of your ability and however you do it it will be fine. and you may do it differently next week or next time thru the process. that is fine also. each time you do the process it hits you where you are and does what you need it to do and does not give you more than you can handle - although it may seem like more than you can handle. the key is that you have made a choice to face your emotions and from that point it is game on. from the moment you make that choice everything that happens is part of the process - michael brown says this is in the book. what you have asked for will then occur - emotions will come up to be integrated. "seek and ye shall find". "knock and it will be opened to you". all you have to do is make the choice and then hang on for the ride.

 

[docsklar]

so i like the spiritual discussion. micheal brown soft sells the whole God thing - uses code words -"inner presence". when you engage the presence process you are engaging God. walt talks about his strained(my word) relationship with God and wanting more of a relationship. what keeps us separate from God is all the emotional baggage - repressed emotions. we are born with little repressed emotion and at that time are close to God. which is why scripture instructs us to "be as children". can't just snap our fingers and do that though. because to be as children we have to take out the trash - repressed emotions. so as we do that thru the presence process we go back to that childlike state and once again can easily access God. so be aware - to choose the presence process is to choose God - and a very good choice that is!!! or as robert frost described - two roads diverged in a wood and he took the one less traveled by and that has "made all the difference"!!!!! so my want for you all is to be more and more aware of God in your lives and walk consciously with God thru your presence process endeavors and in fact all of your endeavors and that will make all the difference!!!

 

[BrianC]

so i like the spiritual discussion. micheal brown soft sells the whole God thing - uses code words -"inner presence". when you engage the presence process you are engaging God. walt talks about his strained(my word) relationship with God and wanting more of a relationship. what keeps us separate from God is all the emotional baggage - repressed emotions. we are born with little repressed emotion and at that time are close to God. which is why scripture instructs us to "be as children". can't just snap our fingers and do that though. because to be as children we have to take out the trash - repressed emotions. so as we do that thru the presence process we go back to that childlike state and once again can easily access God. so be aware - to choose the presence process is to choose God - and a very good choice that is!!! or as robert frost described - two roads diverged in a wood and he took the one less traveled by and that has "made all the difference"!!!!! so my want for you all is to be more and more aware of God in your lives and walk consciously with God thru your presence process endeavors and in fact all of your endeavors and that will make all the difference!!!

Dr. Sklar,

Thanks so much for commenting.

You basically said all the things I was thinking and reassuring myself with. Sometimes, I just need to hear someone say the words in my head so I trust myself.

I love the spiritual discussions. And I couldn't agree more with what you said. The Presence Process is definitely about aligning ourselves with our child-of-God self, and that, in and of itself, aligns us with God naturally. Because that part of us (the real us) is always dependent on God, knowing that He has everything under control and taken care of. And, incidentally, that part of us is also extremely responsible and capable, no matter what needs to be done in the present moment. So this is not a lazy dependence on God. It's more like co-creating with Him, or working along side Him.

I think Michael purposely played down God in the book so that anyone could use the Presence Process to integrate and start living life. That was a very smart move. One way I look at it is that we're all having a human experience. Spiritual and religious are just terms we've used to separate or define ourselves from other groups. But the truth is, we're all children of the Creator. That's humanity. There's nothing "spiritual" or "religious" about that. If one wants to be human, one dives deep into their self and finds the truth--their child-of-God self, and God as well. One can't find one without the other. He made us, and everything, out of Himself. We can't be separated from Him or anything else. We only perceive that we are separated from Him. The Presence Process clears that false perception by letting us integrate the emotional charges that give us that false impression that we're separated from Him.

It's important to note that we're not content or peaceful or joyful in our mind or physical body. We are only that way in our emotions. Therefore, that is the place our work should be directed. Everything else will flow from there. Also, the biggest insights I've had to God, reality, and myself were always when I was hit with really difficult emotional struggles and sought Him as a result, consistently. The Practice of the Presence of God by Brother Lawrence has to be the absolute best book for showing a person how it truly feels when one seeks God through the emotions and links up to Him continuously.

 

[BrianC]

If you want to see what it's like to have your emotional issues resolved and be in alignment with God, The Practice of the Presence of God by Brother Lawrence is by far the best read on this subject. The book was written by a guy who knew Brother Lawrence, but it includes tons of Brother Lawrence's own writings that he never thought would be published, like letters he wrote to friends or maxims, etc. He didn't want fame or notoriety. His experience is just awesome. He actually asked God to let him suffer things for Him, because during the pain/illness/sickness was when God really came close to Him and made him feel incredibly content and joyful (never self-inflicted pain, though, of course).

When reading his experience, it sounds like he went through experiences similar to what a person goes through in the Presence Process. We're doing what he was doing, basically--asking for difficult emotions and their physically-painful aches to surface so we can learn from them and process them.

Usually, I don't want to get into painful situations to help people. Brother Lawrence was excited about getting into painful situations for the increased closeness with God. How awesome would it be to live life like that, without an ounce of fear? As the Bible says, "If a man fears, his heart has not yet been made perfect (better translated: mature and whole) in love." That is why I'm gong through the Presence Process. I'm tired of letting fear of negative emotions rule my life.

 

[BrianC]

Hi Brian,
sounds like you have got a lot of stuff to process and no wonder the PP is affecting you, there might be layers on layers of emotions there.
The burning sounds a bit like anger to me.
I cant remember having any powerful physical effects after the meditation, sometimes I felt sad, often I questioned if it was helping me, was I breathing right etc but in the end I just trusted myself and the process and went with it, wherever it took me.
If you think the fidgeting etc is bad now, wait till the water submersion, those minutes feel like hours, it was by far the hardest part for me. Yes, I did struggle with that too.
After the first PP I just knew I wanted to do it again, I waited a few months and did it again. Then I felt ok, my pain was gone. I planned to do it a third time but it's quite a commitment. I did it before because I was desperate, now I am 100% in good health I think it would be nice to do but its not needed right now. I guess I will know when the time is right to do it again.

Good luck with your journey.

Thanks so much, Panda. I really appreciate the confirmation on this stuff and the fact that you went through similar issues.

 

[BrianC]

brian,
i hear you wanting to know if you are doing the process right. if you are doing it at all you are doing it right. you can't do it wrong. doing the process is a heroic endeavor. what matters is that you have made a choice to face your demons and continue to make that choice on a daily basis. just continue to make that choice and you will go far!
doc sklar

Dr. Sklar,

Thanks so much. That's basically how I've been looking at it. It's good to have confirmation.

The Presence Process says that we can't have any expectations on our pain, or what we think should happen with it, or want to happen with it. It energetically binds it and we're stuck until we release those expectations of it and just let it be. That's probably my main concern. I want to make sure I'm progressively letting go of expectations and becoming okay with pain. In fact, I want to get to a point where I'm asking God to bring on the pain, because I'm so excited to learn from it and be closer to Him. I'm excited about this process, but I'm not yet as excited as I want to be about the pain coming on. lol I'll get there, eventually. I've dealt with this stuff for 34 years. I can wait a little longer for that to come to fruition.

Do you still have your practice over in Fort Worth? You're not far from me. I'm in Irving, right next to Dallas. How exactly do you treat patience? Like Dr. Sarno?

 

[BrianC]

Brian is such a great guy.

Walt, you're a great guy, too! I'm blessed to have met you here.

 

[Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)]

I feel the same about you, Brian.
I want to spend more time re-reading your posts whichI've saved on my computer,
especially those about how you believe heaven is ahead for us.

You don't need pain to set you on a journey to become closer to God,
but for Herbie and me and others, it helped. haha.

 

[docsklar]

If you want to see what it's like to have your emotional issues resolved and be in alignment with God, The Practice of the Presence of God by Brother Lawrence is by far the best read on this subject. The book was written by a guy who knew Brother Lawrence, but it includes tons of Brother Lawrence's own writings that he never thought would be published, like letters he wrote to friends or maxims, etc. He didn't want fame or notoriety. His experience is just awesome. He actually asked God to let him suffer things for Him, because during the pain/illness/sickness was when God really came close to Him and made him feel incredibly content and joyful (never self-inflicted pain, though, of course).

When reading his experience, it sounds like he went through experiences similar to what a person goes through in the Presence Process. We're doing what he was doing, basically--asking for difficult emotions and their physically-painful aches to surface so we can learn from them and process them.

Usually, I don't want to get into painful situations to help people. Brother Lawrence was excited about getting into painful situations for the increased closeness with God. How awesome would it be to live life like that, without an ounce of fear? As the Bible says, "If a man fears, his heart has not yet been made perfect (better translated: mature and whole) in love." That is why I'm gong through the Presence Process. I'm tired of letting fear of negative emotions rule my life.

micheal brown reminds us that "the way out is through". through what? - through the pain! this is what brother lawrence knew as well and all masters. for jesus it was through the crucifixation. paul talked about dying daily. i like joel goldsmith's writings. and the "I AM" discourses. all point in the same direction which is comforting to me. all talk about the reliance on God, spirit, inner presence - take your pick the word matters not - and the ignoring of all outer appearance. which makes it ever more easy to move thru the appearance - whatever the appearance.
sklar

 

[docsklar]

Dr. Sklar,

Thanks so much. That's basically how I've been looking at it. It's good to have confirmation.

The Presence Process says that we can't have any expectations on our pain, or what we think should happen with it, or want to happen with it. It energetically binds it and we're stuck until we release those expectations of it and just let it be. That's probably my main concern. I want to make sure I'm progressively letting go of expectations and becoming okay with pain. In fact, I want to get to a point where I'm asking God to bring on the pain, because I'm so excited to learn from it and be closer to Him. I'm excited about this process, but I'm not yet as excited as I want to be about the pain coming on. lol I'll get there, eventually. I've dealt with this stuff for 34 years. I can wait a little longer for that to come to fruition.

Do you still have your practice over in Fort Worth? You're not far from me. I'm in Irving, right next to Dallas. How exactly do you treat patience? Like Dr. Sarno?

yes i am in ft. worth and yes i treat like dr. sarno with my own particular additions. main addition has been to bump this whole discussion up to one of spirit, mind, body medicine as opposed to just mind body medicine. illness is God's calling card, i believe. healing/wellness requires that we answer the call. it's that simple and complex all at once. let's get together sometime.
sklar

 

[BrianC]

I feel the same about you, Brian.
I want to spend more time re-reading your posts whichI've saved on my computer,
especially those about how you believe heaven is ahead for us.

You don't need pain to set you on a journey to become closer to God,
but for Herbie and me and others, it helped. haha.

walt,

yeah, pain is not necessary to get close to god, but its a great motivator. if a person is taught and modelled on how to process painful emotions as a child, they will have a much easier path to god. but when we arent shown how to process those emotions they can get in the way of the relationship with god until we process them. i strived for years and years for a good connection and understanding of god. but the emotional issues were always in the way and would pull me away from him. i felt a lot closer to him and happier for a good year after i was "saved," as some would call it. but the emotional patterns caught up with me again, stealing my joy and relationship with him. i've sought after that for so long. now that im doing the presence process again, i'm finally feeling more like i did back then, and i will finally get to go beyond that joy now with this process clearing out the emotional baggage. i can't wait.

while pain is not necessary, its a wonderful teacher. we often see it as bad, but i think god uses it to develop us emotionally. after watching all the after-death experience videos, i think we may have started out in heaven, but because we had no needs, we couldn't practice or develop our love. love seeks to help others, by nature. i think we may have chosen to come here, because god is so sensitive to our freewill. freedom and responsibility go hand in hand. he give us that here. the book summerhill by a.s.neill is an awesome example of that. a.s.neill was brilliant.

pain is a kindness to realign us with our true selves and god, in my opinion. he's designed the system well.

 

[BrianC]

micheal brown reminds us that "the way out is through". through what? - through the pain! this is what brother lawrence knew as well and all masters. for jesus it was through the crucifixation. paul talked about dying daily. i like joel goldsmith's writings. and the "I AM" discourses. all point in the same direction which is comforting to me. all talk about the reliance on God, spirit, inner presence - take your pick the word matters not - and the ignoring of all outer appearance. which makes it ever more easy to move thru the appearance - whatever the appearance.
sklar

I couldn't agree more.

Yeah, I'd like to get together sometime. I'll send you a private message.

 

[docsklar]

walt,

yeah, pain is not necessary to get close to god, but its a great motivator. if a person is taught and modelled on how to process painful emotions as a child, they will have a much easier path to god. but when we arent shown how to process those emotions they can get in the way of the relationship with god until we process them. i strived for years and years for a good connection and understanding of god. but the emotional issues were always in the way and would pull me away from him. i felt a lot closer to him and happier for a good year after i was "saved," as some would call it. but the emotional patterns caught up with me again, stealing my joy and relationship with him. i've sought after that for so long. now that im doing the presence process again, i'm finally feeling more like i did back then, and i will finally get to go beyond that joy now with this process clearing out the emotional baggage. i can't wait.

while pain is not necessary, its a wonderful teacher. we often see it as bad, but i think god uses it to develop us emotionally. after watching all the after-death experience videos, i think we may have started out in heaven, but because we had no needs, we couldn't practice or develop our love. love seeks to help others, by nature. i think we may have chosen to come here, because god is so sensitive to our freewill. freedom and responsibility go hand in hand. he give us that here. the book summerhill by a.s.neill is an awesome example of that. a.s.neill was brilliant.

pain is a kindness to realign us with our true selves and god, in my opinion. he's designed the system well.

pain is a kindness - now that's a mouthful - and exactly what i tell people when they will listen!!

 

[BrianC]

I get in trouble for speaking about pain as a kindness sometimes. lol But it like when I hear people say that it inspires them to hear me say that along with other parts of my story. It's wonderful to hear it connect with people.

 

[docsklar]

I get in trouble for speaking about pain as a kindness sometimes. lol But it like when I hear people say that it inspires them to hear me say that along with other parts of my story. It's wonderful to hear it connect with people.

i have often times found getting in trouble to be a sign of being on the right path - lol! not always however.