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The Presence Process and Shanshu Vampyr

I have woken up in the morning with fear and depression. In fact, that was every morning for me almost exactly one year ago. And it was bizarre, watching it come over me, like something tangible, literally stripping away my desire to DO anything, leaving despair in its place. I don't think I had it as badly as you, SV, but I've experienced it on some level. It tried to sneak up on me again not that long ago - sometime in the last couple of weeks (June was a hard month for me, still sorting out why). Again, I had this detached feeling of being a spectator while I watched it tempt me to just give in to depression and fear, and to go back to bed for the rest of the day. It didn't last long, because I received and transmitted, at the same time if that makes sense, the message that this was just my TMS. But it still took an effort of will to follow through on that message, and to reject the temptation, and get on with my day.

The thing that sticks in my mind is the almost physical effort it took to reject the desire to give in. It's HARD, SV, I know it is.
 
I can only commiserate with your confusion, Shanshu. Not only is this process non-linear, but sometimes I feel like there are a lot of contradictions in what we read and hear and are told. For example, we've been told that TMS is our brain trying to protect us against repressed emotions. It's not healthy, but it's not malevolent. So I was kind of shocked and confused during the Saturday chat to see Steve Ozanich say the following:
Steve Ozanich: TMS is a kind of self-loathing
Steve Ozanich: low self-esteem self-punishment

I'm still not sure it makes sense for me, but you just essentially said the same thing when you said you see it as your enemy. Maybe you and Steve O have something in common.

I'm just finishing up Chapter 5 in Steve's new book, and it seems to me he fought TMS tooth and nail, for many months. I mean, he really fought it and pushed against it, and he eventually triumphed. It felt like the kind of fighting that as you mentioned we're told is supposed to be ineffective, but it obviously worked for him.

So I don't know. We are all SO different, I wonder whether we can say for sure what will work or not work for any one person?

It may be there's only one thing that is universal in this struggle, which is, always believe in the diagnosis and never give up.

Which doesn't mean you can't take a break. Here's a little light reading about dreams - it's a NYTimes article about dream theories as of 2009.

I hope you're feeling better tomorrow, SV.
 
Thanks Jan and thanks all. I'm up all night this month waiting for admissions to come in the door. I do feel more peaceful, but maybe that's because I've read a few more pages of the Presence Process (still only about 15 pages in) and it does address my "issues" and does it in a fashion that provides a 10-week structure, even though I sort of anticipate it will be messy and scary and disconcerting. That's what this thread is about--Presence, and I'm gonna try to keep on track (will post about my journey at large in my other thread).

I understand the dilemma of TMS, though, that you describe, and it's frustrating. Full of apparent contradictions in terms. It's a benevolent protector, sending messages from your subconscious to tell you, hey, things are just NOT right; and yet it produces horrible symptoms. It's something you have to keep working on because it IS a journey, and yet you can't work too hard because then it just becomes a obsessive focus in your life (as it has for me over 18 months). There are certain ground rules that TMS follows, and yet TMS doesn't follow any rules because it's an intelligent strategy from your own brain. :( So many contradictions.

*sigh* But I do feel somewhat more peaceful. That's good enough.

Perhaps I AM being more "Present" at this moment without actually knowing what it is right now.

Bear. :'(
 
I understand why you say TMS is a contradiction and why it recovery can be really frustrating at times. Of course we want to recover immediatley and get better as soon as possible, however recovery doesn't entirely work like that. It just takes time for the message to fully sink in to our unconscious. On Saturday, Steve gave a great analogy for how this works. He said, it’s like a sponge the size of a car that you’re making wet with an eye dropper...you need to soak that car sized sponge to alter the brains behavior but it takes one drop at a time.

If we understand it like this then hopefully we can understand to not try too hard. It is a process that we have to do in a steady and persistent manner. One of the positive aspects of the Presence Process is that it does help people focus on the present through a steady repetition, and it may be a helpful tool in recovering. The only thing it doesn't do is talk about TMS, so it may also be useful to at least review Sarno's Daily Reminders.

​
 
It is.

P. 18 "What is my intent in entering the Presence Process?"

"To carve out a life free of mental suffering; to live without recrimination and be fully present in as many moments of life as possible, without regard to physical or psychoemotional discomfort; to shed the core "inadequate Phil" stuff.
 
Shanshu Vampyr said:
Thought it might be useful to post this re: Presence; and I'll myself try to keep it in mind even before I start... :S
http://presenceprocessquestions.blogspot.com/2009/09/can-i-get-rid-of-5-years-of-chronic.html
"You are still fixated upon symptoms - which is a natural place to enter this work when in chronic pain. However, it is recommended you elevate your intent so as to rise above being physically and mentally transfixed." :S
Click to expand...

Wowee, Michael Brown doesn't pull any punches, does he? I'm slightly in awe of something else he said in his response to that person he's quoting on his blog: "I see no evidence in your email that you are even slightly aware of your authentic emotional condition". Yikes, that's harsh! And hey Shanshu, give yourself a big gold star that YOU are already well beyond THAT stage! :cool:

Speaking of non-linear healing, it's worth repeating the fact that your symptoms will probably fluctuate wildly, and perhaps get worse before they get better, as your brain rebels against the work.

And we can never say this enough: forgive yourself and love yourself each step of the way, no matter how hard that feels sometimes.

I hope you're feeling better today/tonight!

Jan
 
I know, I kinda hated having to write that :( - but when it happens, it's a sign that progress IS taking place :eek::mad:o_O:):cool:
 
Dr. Zafirides said this in the thread he started about a new chronic pain study:
Pain and emotions are intricately involved. There is pain and then there is suffering. Pain is the actual physical, biological response. Suffering however is the pain and also the meaning one ascribes to it - which is an emotional process. It is this psychophysiologic nature of suffering that really can devastate an individual's life. This is why pain is so complicated. This is why all of us are only at the infancy of understanding the nature of pain, both its biological and emotional components.
Click to expand...
 
"TMS doc Dr. Sklar has endorsed--and so has Dr. Sarno--the Presence Process as the best vehicle for TMS recovery on the planet. That leads to comfort. But in reality, comfort is just a disguised way of saying, 'Doing the Presence Process WILL bring your pain to an end', which isn't what the Presence Process purposes anyway.

In order to truly grow, I need to trade the premise of being pain-free for the promise of a better life. Something that I haven't been able to access so far.

But I'm only human, and being pain-free is important. :("

Trying to stay true to my "process". :(
 
 
Shanshu Vampyr said:
@ Jan: Trying not to suffer is a full-time job. :( Bear.
Click to expand...

Along with everything else, right? I'm sorry - it's a LOT. I can only try to imagine what you're going through so that I can attempt to empathize.

It does seem like Michael Brown is speaking to you, though. Gosh, his stuff is pretty intellectually dense! Too much for this accountant :confused: But I will try to follow along, because there's always something to learn. I liked #3 that you listed. But #2 was over my head! And #4 - well, that's tough love.

If you need a therapeutic break and a cheerful voice in the middle of the dreary night doing whatever it is you're doing on night shift, try Dr. Zafirides' podcasts. I would say that Dr. Z is about 180 degrees from Michael Brown. The podcasts are less than 30 minutes, and the main topic is about half the length, followed by health news. They are under the "Media" tab on his website, The Healthy Mind. He has lots of mind-body topics to choose from.

In fact, if you find yourself wanting to be sad, treat your sadness like a TMS symptom to be overcome, and force yourself to listen to Dr. Z, and force yourself to appreciate him for being positive and upbeat. As hard as that may be.

I'm reminded of Norman Cousins, and how he used the power of laughter for healing. It's basically a mind shift that you create by exposing yourself to something different. You could certainly try pure humor (Cousins used Marx Brothers films) but I'm thinking Dr. Z because he has so much good info to offer, and I find it hard not to smile when listening to him.

This is just something to try, as I said, when you need a break. It can't hurt.

J
 
After going through the Presence Process and really committing myself to it I became disillusioned. There is a lot of wisdom in the book and it helped changed my perspective on some important issues but I had no physical changes.
 
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