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The Mind’s Eyewitness - Discussing Chapter 2 of The Great Pain Deception

Discussion in 'General Discussion Subforum' started by Becca, Aug 23, 2013.

  1. Becca

    Becca Well known member

    Last week, the call-in discussion group had a great conversation around the themes brought up in the prologue and chapter one of Steve Ozanich’s book The Great Pain Deception. (If you missed it, you can listen to the recorded discussion.)

    Steve wrote that understanding the inner workings of the mind was essential to his healing. This Tuesday (August 2th), the call-in discussion group will be looking at The Mind’s Eyewitness -- Chapter Two of The Great Pain Deception -- to gain a better understanding of the forces at play in our minds, and how these forces impact our TMS.

    Like last week, Herbie will be running the discussion, as Forest is still away (you can see his adventures in the thread Travels in Korea!) .

    As always we’ll start the official discussion at 9pm Eastern Time (6pm Pacific Time). Herbie will open up the lines 30 minutes or so beforehand, to give folks a chance to check in and chat before we start our discussion of this chapter. But remember, the real action starts at 9! Hope to hear you there!

    Quick connection details (for more info visit go.tmswiki.org/connect):
    • If you are connecting via telephone, dial 1 347 817 7654. When prompted, enter the meeting number 18311499 .
    • If you are connecting via your computer (using the Fuze Meeting application), go to https://www.fuzemeeting.com/fuze/48fb7aa8/18311499 and follow the instructions from there.
    BruceMC and Eric "Herbie" Watson like this.
  2. Steve Ozanich

    Steve Ozanich TMS Consultant

    Hi Becca, I hope to come by this Tuesday, or next. How long is Forrest gone for?

    It was very important for me to understand what was going on inside my head, to heal. We feel safer if we feel a sense of control in life. For chapter two, I spoke to dozens of college professors and experts on Jung and Freud, Adler, Horney, etc... I read the works of Jung, and most of Freud's. The idea is not to debate their work, or what I wrote, but to try to gain a fundamental understanding of what is occurring within.

    There are many great philosophies on how the inner mind works. I simply used Freud because it's simple and easy, and people recognize it and the lingo. There's an inner self, id, and an outer "pretend self," the superego. And of course their referee ego. I don't make any claim on which philosophy is right or wrong, that is irrelevant. Freud's work was simply a tool to describe something in a way that people could understand, to heal. My personal belief is that Jung was the most brilliant psychiatrist that ever lived (beside my friend Dr. Zafirides, he's a Buckeye and Penguin, we gotta stick together).

    So for me, the precise mechanism of understanding wasn't important, the important thing was that a cursory understanding of basic psychology be available because the standard TMSer is a knowledge junkie. In the end, it was only important to know that there is a divided mind, the undeveloped self vs. the false self, me vs. them, not wanting vs. wanting, trying to do right vs. not caring. This division of mind is very important to life, and motivation, to heal, or not heal. But the end goal is the unification.
    "Unless thine two eyes become one.."

    Good luck,

    Rinkey likes this.
  3. BruceMC

    BruceMC Beloved Grand Eagle

    I'm going through chapter 2 in detail right now (Saturday) and it all seems to boil down to a fundamental conflict between id and superego, our primal desires and how we think we should act as moral beings that leads to the tension behind the generation of TMS symptoms of all sorts: lower lumbar pain, sciatica, knee pain, head aches, TMJ, CTS, shoulder pain etc. etc. etc. As I go through chapter 2 I can certainly see how following my mother's death in January 2001 I was confronted with the choice between taking my parents' money and property and doing what my selfish id wanted or repressing my desires and doing what I "should" do: holding on to the house, having a respectable career, making babies, being a responsible member of society. But instead I tried to achieve a compromise between my id and my superego, which created a perfect breeding ground for TMS symptoms like my so-called herniated disk etc. etc. Your chapter seemed really useful to me, Steve, because it made me see the larger Freudian and Jungian patterns behind the appearance of my symptoms. It is very interesting too that as I move toward just being myself, my TMS symptoms have slowly subsided. Just goes to show how successful my parents were at programming me and how much I bought into that programming as the heroic, self-sacrificing number one son. As humans, we sure do seem to have an infinite capacity for adapting to fundamentally inhuman, self-destructive situations, but, of course, then we have to pay the psychological debit tab after using all kinds of self-effacing strategies to postpone that inevitable day of reckoning.

    Thanks Steve,

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  4. Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)

    Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021) Beloved Grand Eagle

    Hi, guys. I've been having some dreams every night and most of them I have no idea what they mean.
    I read that a new DVD coming out next month is called "C.G. Jung: The Wisdom of Dreams."

    Netflix doesn't list it yet but may get it later. It sounds interesting.
  5. Becca

    Becca Well known member

    Steve, that would be wonderful! Forest is gone until early September, I believe. I'm unclear on whether he'll be back the following week or not. (Forest if you see this feel free to weigh in!)

    This is so true. But the fact is, we can't control everything in life. Even though that's terrifying I think that's also partially the beauty of life. Sometimes I think we need to let go of that need for control -- accept that we can't control everything -- and let life just happen. Maybe we'll be pleasantly surprised by the result... :)
  6. BruceMC

    BruceMC Beloved Grand Eagle

    Then, you're saying, Becca, that most TMSers are "control freaks"? That must be one of the reasons behind the tension that generates pain symptoms, don't you think?
  7. Becca

    Becca Well known member

    Ugh, I hate that label. It just sounds so bad! But yes, I think the need to control our surroundings absolutely contributes to TMS symptoms.

    I think everyone to some extent wants to control their life. It's natural. I personally find it strange (and sometimes infuriating) when someone is totally "control-free" and just "goes with the flow" with everything that happens to them and around them. Exerting some control over our lives is healthy, I think. It's how we find direction, how we define ourselves. But sometimes there's an excess of that need to control. I used to be totally unaware of that need. Then, when I wasn't able to hold onto something, wasn't able to control it (which was, of course, inevitable) my anxiety would flare up. I'd panic. And then my inner bully would pop up, and berate me for not being able to control whatever it was I clearly had no capability to control, or, mock me for thinking I could control it in the first place. Eventually, I came to understand and accept that not having control over every little thing is OK, that it is normal, that it is simply part of living. (Of course easier said than done, right?)

    There's something I've found incredibly useful called radical acceptance: you simply have to accept that a situation is what it is, and that there isn't anything you can do to change it. The only thing you have control over is how you respond to the situation, how you react, how you behave. Basically you give yourself (and your unconscious) a choice: do I freak out, do I exhaust myself by trying to change what can't be changed, or do I just accept this situation for what it is? This radical acceptance is one of the hardest things I've ever had to do. I like to control things. I think I like having that sort of power. But it is just exhausting, and infuriating, to work against a situation, an encounter, a person, your own emotions, that you simply have no control over. At a certain point you just have to accept what you simply cannot change, and just let go of that desire to control. That's what radical acceptance teaches. Once you can start to radically accept, you can start to move forward.

    ...just some food for thought.
    Ellen likes this.
  8. BruceMC

    BruceMC Beloved Grand Eagle

    These guys at Stalingrad didn't get a chance to control their situation; they just had to accept it, and look how it turned out:


    IOWs: Sometimes you just can't control a situation by an individual act of will; instead, it control and kills you. Free will is a luxury item, yes?
  9. Becca

    Becca Well known member

    Just reminding folks that the discussion group is tonight! We may even discuss some of what's been talked about in this thread so far... ;) Remember, the lines open 30 minutes early but the official discussion will begin at 9pm ET. Don't forget to log into the chatroom at www.tmswiki.org/chat as well. Should be a good one, guys...I hope to hear you there!
  10. Steve Ozanich

    Steve Ozanich TMS Consultant

    Becca did you have a chapter 2 discussion? I wanted to drop by but I had several TMS consults at the same time. If you do a discussion when you get to my own healing story, chapters 3-5, I'll come by and see if anyone has any questions.

    Other than that I promised Forrest I would come by some time. This is a good time, phase 1 of the TMS campaign just ended. It's a good time to catch up on obligations.

    They just sent me the last interview, it was fun. It was some type of paranormal group, but they were fascinated by TMS and wanted to hear what I had to say. The one host said his wife wanted to have me on the show. They were funny, but I don't know how to add the interview here.

  11. Becca

    Becca Well known member

    Yes, Steve, we did! The audio from the discussion just finished exporting and I about to edit it now. I will be posting it within the hour.
  12. Becca

    Becca Well known member

    As promised, here's the recording from our second discussion of The Great Pain Deception! Listen here using the audio player below, or download the audio as an mp3 by right-clicking on this link or the link below the player, and choosing to save it to your computer. Join us next Tuesday, when we'll be wrapping up Chapter Two (discussing the shadow) and starting Chapter Three. Happy listening!

    Click here to download the mp3 audio
  13. BruceMC

    BruceMC Beloved Grand Eagle

    One question, Steve, that did come up during our discussion of Chapter 2 of your Great Pain Deception that Herbie and I couldn't really answer was about the relationship between Alan Gordon's Inner Bully and the Freudian Superego. Are they two aspects of the same thing? Herbie, if I recall correctly, thought the Inner Bully was an aspect of the Id while I leaned toward the Superego. Would have been nice to have had you on board to resolve the question. It seem to me that whenever someone criticizes me out in public and I get in an obsessive internal debate with them that goes on and on and on ad nauseum that it's an echo of my late father criticizing me and telling me that I was no good and hadn't really done anything of merit. What's that Dr Sarno says about the role of an inferiority complex passed on from generation to generation? Sounds to me like it's at the root of Western Civilization, something like patricide in Oedipus Rex!

    And, yes, as Becca points out, next week we'll be discussing Chapter 3: Once Upon My Time . . .
  14. Eric "Herbie" Watson

    Eric "Herbie" Watson Beloved Grand Eagle

    I agree with you that the super ego is more the bully in this setting
    You cant get that right! you better not mess up!

    We know the inner critic can be a bully- The should haves
    so its still a good question.

    I think it was like the id , even a child, can bully- Anger, hurt, resentment

    In comparison both id and super ego have to be soothed.

    Then again I believe that's the episode for shadows.
  15. BruceMC

    BruceMC Beloved Grand Eagle

    Yes, it seems like a psycho-drama played out in the ego between the hurt child and the hyper-critical internal parent. One ball of wax. But I don't think the whole internal dialog would get started without low-self esteem at the center of the process. Steve?
    Eric "Herbie" Watson likes this.
  16. Eric "Herbie" Watson

    Eric "Herbie" Watson Beloved Grand Eagle

  17. BruceMC

    BruceMC Beloved Grand Eagle

    I think I get it, Dr. Schubiner:

    Internal bully = hyper-trophic superego

    Interesting how Dr. Schubiner points out how a large percentage of TMS patients have overdeveloped superegos: a too strong sense of 'should'
  18. Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)

    Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021) Beloved Grand Eagle

    Dr. Shubiner's video is terrific. He sure explains how and why we get TMS and how to deal with it.

    I'm still working on my "overdeveloped super-ego" to lighten up on myself. I have to stop trying to
    please everyone so much, and not worry so much. Things do work themselves out so why stress about them?

    We can't feed everyone or do it as fast as they want to be fed.

    baby birds mouths open.jpg
  19. Becca

    Becca Well known member

    I picked up on that too, Bruce...I have a seriously overdeveloped superego (very high feelings of "should"). I often feel like I have to take care of everyone and everything, and of course do it all perfectly. If I reach anything less than this perfection, or don't meet all these responsibilities, I often feel like I've failed others and myself. Of course in reality (and I've gotten many reality checks from my friends and family, and now more recently, myself!), I'm not expected to even think about some of the things I feel like I should take care of! It reminds me of a motto a good friend of mine has (and has been trying to get me to adapt for myself): "don't should on yourself!"
  20. BruceMC

    BruceMC Beloved Grand Eagle

    Me three, Becca! Doing everything perfectly to protect my fragile ego from my late father's constant criticism and being good to satisfy my mother's stern moral creed out of the snows of the Montana homestead. I'm being good, mom, I'm being perfect dad. Now, you can't criticize me, can you? Think since I'm essentially retired, I'm moving on to being sloppy and lazy today. Big improvement! Much healthier mentally too!
    Becca likes this.

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