SteveO: 'Concious' repressed rage ?

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Freedom

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One concept I didn't understand from SteveO's book, was he mentioned the story of the trauma with his wife, and how he was angry about it.

If we are to be conscious of our anger, then how come him being conscious of his rage about what the doctors did, did not help him heal?

I feel the same way, I think I am conscious of my anger and frustrations but my pain does not cease.
 
Ellen said:
Here's an answer to your question from Ask-A-Therapist:

http://www.tmswiki.org/forum/threads/conscious-vs-unconscious-rage.8787/ (Daniel L. - conscious vs. unconscious rage)
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The page mentions "If it’s to reduce pain, then I wouldn’t worry about it. Unconscious rage as the cause of TMS pain, as popularized by Sarno, is not exactly how we think about TMS pain anymore. There’s an element to it, yes, but that’s not everything. I find that changing your relationship to the pain is much more vital to getting rid of pain than getting in touch with unconscious emotions. "

Changing relationship to pain, meaning not being afraid of it or realizing its TMS? Isn't that kind of stage 1? This makes me wonder if I should be listening to Sarnos book anymore in terms of techniques to get rid of pain.
 
Freedom said:
One concept I didn't understand from SteveO's book, was he mentioned the story of the trauma with his wife, and how he was angry about it.

If we are to be conscious of our anger, then how come him being conscious of his rage about what the doctors did, did not help him heal?

I feel the same way, I think I am conscious of my anger and frustrations but my pain does not cease.
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We seem to be going through the same issues. I just posted mine a few minutes ago. I too am aware of some very strong feelings of rage and depression, with some but not much remission of pain. I hope maybe the journal writing will turn something up that I wasn't aware of and what I'm 'aware' of is maybe only the tip of the ice burg. Who knows? I do share your frustration.
 
2scottb34 said:
We seem to be going through the same issues. I just posted mine a few minutes ago. I too am aware of some very strong feelings of rage and depression, with some but not much remission of pain. I hope maybe the journal writing will turn something up that I wasn't aware of and what I'm 'aware' of is maybe only the tip of the ice burg. Who knows? I do share your frustration.
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2scottb34: My experience has been that I was able to decrease my pain somewhat when I stopped fearing the pain. It did not go away but it definitely decreased. Recently though it has come back in a lot of places, so I'm left wondering what I'm doing wrong.
 
I have mentioned this in my previosu posts.

Realizing consciously that pain is caused by repressed anger and rage is the first step to put one's mind at ease regarding structral abnormalities and further damage that might be caused by activity.

Yet as long as subconsious fear of pain is there, pain will last and last.

And as long as we do not deal with TMS subconsiously by fighting anger, rage, worries, and frustration with enthusiasm, energy, and excitement we cannot expect to become pain-free.

TMS causes pain and pain can cause more TMS. The solution is to break the cycle with a clear step-by -step plan that keeps you enthusiastic and motivated to override the TMS response and get well.

What I have seen for the past 20 some years as a Rapid Recovery Caoch is that there are some very disciplined individuals with extremely strong personalities that by simply learning about TMS consiously can eliminat it quickly.

Some of them have been my clients. For example, they owned their own business or were high achievers and applied the same mental abilites that helped them to build their business and achieve to overcome TMS.

In such cases, their symptoms started due to tension but had become chronic. So it was more a matter of eliminating a conditioned response rather thaa dealing with a clear and present tension.

You can check out my website for additional info and resources.
 
Freedom said:
Is the quote from that post emphasizing mindfulness (meditation) ?
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Nothing about "meditation" in the quote. It's talking about being in "the now". Not thinking about the "past", not thinking about the "future". It's saying get out of sub-conscious thinking running your life and giving you TMS pain. Stop looking for "that event"--psychobabbling, ruminating, overthinking this TMS thing. Just do it! What do you want to do?
 
Freedom said:
The page mentions "If it’s to reduce pain, then I wouldn’t worry about it. Unconscious rage as the cause of TMS pain, as popularized by Sarno, is not exactly how we think about TMS pain anymore. There’s an element to it, yes, but that’s not everything. I find that changing your relationship to the pain is much more vital to getting rid of pain than getting in touch with unconscious emotions. "

Changing relationship to pain, meaning not being afraid of it or realizing its TMS? Isn't that kind of stage 1? This makes me wonder if I should be listening to Sarnos book anymore in terms of techniques to get rid of pain.
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One part of the book mentions: "
As long as there is unresolved conflict, the mind will continuously shift symptoms to keep fear alive— as a purposeful distraction. The symptoms bounce around in the body to keep you feeling that you have suddenly developed a “real pain” or a “real injury.” The brain scans the body until it finds an area or system that you are most fearful of— and then it induces a symptom there and lingers, waiting for your response to it. If you don’t fear that area much or don’t pay much attention to that particular symptom, it will then shift to another area until it can grasp your attention again somewhere else, all in the attempt to keep you from tending to your emotions." - So wouldn't this imply to focus on the psychological (issues you have internally), as opposed to just whether the pain is from a real problem or not.

"that this is the very purpose of their pain, to let them know they have repressed what they so much want to express— but can’t."

It seems like there are contradictory ideas on TMS
 
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Freedom said:
It seems like there are contradictory ideas on TMS
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Yes, your conscious and sub-conscious are contradictory to each other--the source of TMS. You are looking for reasons why TMS doesn't work, this will hold you back from progressing.

You are exhibiting two of the characteristics that SteveO mentioned that will hold you back from accepting TMS as the source for your chronic pain :

* "They search for discrepancies in the TMS materials to find something to dispute, to exclude themselves as potential candidates for healing, often proclaiming, 'Not everything is TMS!' "

* "They never act on the TMS information in front of them."
 
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Here's one of the points of that post by TTom called "SteveO's Top 10." When people aren't ready to heal they seek to find holes in the work, which enables them to continue to divert awareness away from the cause. This means that breaking it down into the minutiae "is the problem." Thinking vs. feeling. These issues cannot be resolved through intellect. The thinking (as Jung wrote) inhibits feeling. The art of breaking the TMS work into small quarks of truth does not help, it adds to the confusion and suffering.

The first post in this thread is an easy answer, any anger you feel has nothing to do with your symptoms. That anger is felt/expressed, and so discharged from your being and can no longer influence you. The last post here I can't understand. I wrote that paragraph but I can't figure out the question. Can you please rephrase it so I can try to help? I'm trying to explain why people aren't healing, and the #1 reason will always be because they are trying to heal. They're using intellect to replace feeling, the very reason they have TMS in the first place.

I hope that makes sense, just a little,

SteveO
 
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One point Steve O has brought up again and again, whether in his youtube videos or in his books, is that unconscious rage is unconscious. It is hard to believe or understand at first but we generally are not aware of what is going on in the unconscious because it is the unconscious and therefore we aren't able to consciously perceive it. We usually aren't even aware of the unconscious. The unconscious does leave clues here and there. We can analyze our dreams or we can analyze our reactions to certain people or events.

In general, I think that Steve O and Dr. Sarno focus too much on the unconscious, although it reasonable that they do so because the unconscious mind is the ultimate source of TMS pain. For TMS healing, I think we have to change the way we think and how we react to life. One good practice is to constantly remind ourselves of the good things in life. We also have to understand TMS theory to the point that we intuitively know that our pain is not structural but is rather due to accumulated rage and other emotional problems. We can change the way we think about ourselves and the way we think about our pain and I have faith that the subconscious and unconscious will follow suit. It is only a matter of time if we are persistent.
 
I would like to clarify, if I could s'il vous plait? I never talk about the unconscious when I work with people, except to explain the process to those who are new. People continually misunderstand it, such as in this thread posting of which I'm trying to help. So I'm not sure what it means when you say I focus too much on it? I never focus on it. I center on how they think and react, but mainly on perception (including subject-object split).

Changing the habitual brain is an art-form which I now realize that I did by accident nearly 20 years ago. To a fool be none the wiser. But nothing is as important as belief in healing which of course is married to perception.

Also, if something comes to us from a dream it is no longer unconscious to us. So the best definition of the unconscious is always that "we are unaware of it." If we become aware of something it is no longer unconscious; it is then conscious because we are now aware of it. Therefore any anger we feel is not unconscious and cannot be a part of the TMS diversion-message process. So to answer this thread question again, the anger that I felt over the doctors that crippled my ex-wife was felt, I was aware of it and so it could not be part of my TMS; ie, TMS 101.

Persistence is indeed key, but it must be persistence with the truth of what is occurring. Many persist in the wrong direction, ingraining false patterns of confusion, further strengthening the habitual brain in its obsessive desire to continue to avert awareness. Such methods can include, journaling, structured programs, psycho-therapy, forums, and the #1 problem "trying to heal." The success or failure in any of these stems from the individual's perception of them. If they perceive it to be their answer, they tend to get better. If they view these things as burdens, like I did, they tend to get worse, or not progress. Only a confused soul trips on what is behind him. So the idea is to see deeper, always. Light heals the wounds of darkness because fear is the opposite of love. Anyone who cannot see that love is the only answer is forever lost, hiding in the shadow of their own ego.

Everyone can become whole again if they can break through the fog of confusion from the cluster of outside opinions, but at the limina is the threshold of understanding so it is often necessary to keep stepping through the confusion to ultimately understand what sustains you as a person, who you really are. Suffering has a purpose and is only resolved from the inside, not from others. "They" do however show us who we are! They, the objects, are our best teachers because they reveal to us, us. Learn from everyone, each has his or her purpose in life, even if it's to serve as a bad example.

SteveO
 
My last post wasn't intended as a criticism of you or your work. I consider your book "The Great Pain Deception" and Sarno's books to be some of the best, most life-changing books I have ever read and I have read a lot of books. What I was referring to was my own experience and probably the experience of others after reading "The Great Pain Deception" and Sarno. I focused too much on figuring out what my negative emotions and unconscious rage were instead of finding ways to change my outlook.

Your last post is very informative and it helped me gain a better understanding of TMS. Thank you for taking the time to help out this community.
 
I didn't take it as a criticism at all, no worries, I learned from what you wrote. I was hoping you would elaborate more on where we focused too much on the unconscious so I could explain better. But you already allowed me to explain so you were helpful.

The unconscious exists, we know it from the vast successes of everyone. But digging it up, as Dr. Sarno said "is utterly fruitless." So he never dwelled on it either. But it's still there and must be recognized or awareness can't expand. Beyond that, the digging into the present seems to be the best route, and into the "whys." Pain and disease are defenses against truth. But what truth are sufferers burying? When they see themselves they begin letting go. That's what I do, I show people who they are and they get better.

But they are normally confused, and meandering. Stuck in interstice. Education heals, harmony doesn't come from "doing things," which is one reason Dr. Sarno said that CBT is ineffective (singularly). Those who "do things" to heal, and then heal, will be back. You have to stay away from the physical aspects of healing, or it only works short term. Beliefs shift from time to time, but unmet needs don't. So anything can work some of the time.

SteveO
 
Freedom said:
2scottb34: My experience has been that I was able to decrease my pain somewhat when I stopped fearing the pain. It did not go away but it definitely decreased. Recently though it has come back in a lot of places, so I'm left wondering what I'm doing wrong.
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I still have a lot of problems with the fear of the pain, that is going to be my biggest stumbling block. It is for me such an obvious trick I really don't know why I keep falling into it. I've had a lot of low back pain with spasms for 30 years. I make my living as a potter, so can't bend over, can't earn a living, and you can guess where your mind goes from there. Loose the house...etc. So in some respect, I'm more worried about immobility than pain, either way it gets the job done. Total distraction and centered on my body all the time.
 
I have never met a potter, interesting. I would suggest that you don't have a fear of your pain but that you have a fear that it will go away. Get with that for awhile, and begin to see it all differently. Then change begins to occur.
 
In addition to the step-by-step approach that I explain in my book, which helps build confidence day after day to become active and overcome fear of pain, there were other things I did.

One of the techniques I used to apply during my recovery, which has helped a lot of my clients, was to hit my legs and back and arms to prove to my subconscious that I was not afraid of the pain.

I was showing my subconscious I was the one in charge. That's one of the many ways you can get over your fear. Don't anxiously be on the defense when it come to pain, go boldly on the offense!
 
FredAmir said:
One of the techniques I used to apply during my recovery, which has helped a lot of my clients, was to hit my legs and back and arms to prove to my subconscious that I was not afraid of the pain.

I was showing my subconscious I was the one in charge.
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YUP! Sometimes you have to remind those limbs whose in charge. Dr. Sarno says we are not as delicate as we have been made to believe by the medical/industrial complex.
 
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