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Sometimes it's not "just" psychological...

Discussion in 'Support Subforum' started by riv44, Aug 26, 2016.

  1. riv44

    riv44 Well known member

    Reaction to and experience of pain definitely has a psychological component. Depression- psychobiosocial. But the visible presence of arthritis in various joints--can't deny it. Family history of arthritis is extensive. So is TMS, but that's a hypothesis.
    If I elect foot surgery to get the bones back in place, I will probably have a better outcome with CBT and mindfulness techniques. But I can't journal my way out of this one, I'm afraid.
  2. DianeRadvanski

    DianeRadvanski New Member

    I would have to agree with you. I may have extensive nerve inflammation and neuromas under my scalp tbat psychological factors alone can't get rid of..I had injuries to my head so if they say surgery will get rid of the injured areas I will probably do it. That said I believe that stress management techniques and TMS approaches are helpful for anyone to incorporate but there just seems to be some diseases esp an autoimmune disease that I also may have that are not caused by psychological factors but rather exacerbated by them. Best wishes to you!
  3. riv44

    riv44 Well known member

    Or it's TMS tricking me again!
  4. DianeRadvanski

    DianeRadvanski New Member

    If u think so. I guess I am on the fence becauze my nerve pain is so severr on my scalp and head that it came right after sever al hits to my head. I thinot TMS will help it improve but is not the cause. I was fine before hitting my head. No other health issues either.
  5. riv44

    riv44 Well known member

    I think my level of preoccupation with symptoms is absolutely TMS. I might do the toe surgery though= to get rid of the arthritis and area where I chipped a bone awhile back...I would like to not be having footpain at my daughter's June wedding.
    Question is, when does it stop? When my foot is better, will I focus on my knees? Arthritis is common in the general population but not everyone suffers pain.
    I believe that TMS is inherited.
  6. DianeRadvanski

    DianeRadvanski New Member

    I know plenty if people who have all sorts of chronic conditions and never heard of TMS yet they manage well.

    I went thru 7 years of a PhD program and worked 2 jobs and had the usual allergies and minor ailments but always got better and disn't know about TMS.

    But now, with major nerve damage and pain and such extreme limitations I think TMS may be part of it but not the core cause...I think I owe it to myself to get thoroughly checked medically before I can say for sure this is TMS. 17 months is a long time of nothing but burning, rawness, pulling, stabbing and piercing pains nearly 15-20 hours a day. I had to give up a great job and it happened only 3 weeks after I got married. So I definitely think there is or are several structural issues...In the meanwhile I continue to read TMS books and follow their exercises and educate myself. I wish u all the best!
  7. plum

    plum Beloved Grand Eagle

    Remember that Sarno himself never said everything was TMS or psychological. In his fourth book, The Divided Mind he clarified his position on this and it does well to revisit his actual words. TMS healing can't do any harm but it is not a panacea. Draw on Sarno's clear wisdom and craft a healing path that works for you. I've had atypical trigeminal neuralgia for over ten years and I am finally beating it due to the realisation that it is not simply TMS (which explains why the years devoted to pure TMS protocol didn't work) but rests more broadly along the psychosomatic continuum (which explains why an expanded healing program does). I believe The Divided Mind is Sarno's greatest work simply because it puts the range of mindbody disorders into context.
    Sarah79, westb and Lily Rose like this.
  8. riv44

    riv44 Well known member

    Good thoughts. Will order and read.
  9. DianeRadvanski

    DianeRadvanski New Member

    Thanks Plum...it makes me feel OK like I don't have to be an all out avid follower of all TMS work before I heal. I aprecise those words because I know I have been met with resistance on these forums saying I have to be in it all the way or nothing. And I don't belive that fits me just yet.
    Sarah79 and Lily Rose like this.
  10. riv44

    riv44 Well known member

    It's analogous to an abstinence model for addictions. No one should have to buy into a program 100%. Managing pain is a very individual thing.
    Lily Rose, plum and DianeRadvanski like this.
  11. plum

    plum Beloved Grand Eagle

    My pleasure Diane. I would gladly spare anyone the pointless years of agony I endured.

    I'm immensely grateful that Sarno bothered to write his final book because matters were pretty confusing before then. Psychosomatic theories have a long history so anyone who has knowledge of them simply knows that TMS isn't a catch-all or replacement term. That would have been redundant at best. Sarno embraced the whole gamut and was very clear about the terms he used. He states that he uses mindbody and psychosomatic interchangeably but TMS and psychogenic are very specific terms for very specific things. It really doesn't help that people/we treat these expressions as synonyms and/or disdain Sarno's own taxonomy.

    Everyone here is well-intentioned but I do think a greater clarity and understanding of the mindbody spectrum is the best foundation of all. The Divided Mind does this beautifully, particularly the early chapters written by Sarno himself (there are other contributors).

    In the end no one needs the endless mindgames which can sail dangerously close to the classic Bateman doublebind. It creates more tension and who the hell needs that?
    Sarah79, Lily Rose and riv44 like this.
  12. Ellen

    Ellen Beloved Grand Eagle

    Thanks to Plum for her spot on clarification of TMS principles and theory. It's very easy to get lost in the weeds when studying TMS and trying to apply the theory to your real life.
    plum, Lily Rose and riv44 like this.
  13. Jacqui9

    Jacqui9 Peer Supporter

    Plum, Can you please give us information about "an expanded healing program"? Thanks in advance.
  14. riv44

    riv44 Well known member

    Thank you for nailing the "double-bind." (Are you by chance a family therapist?) we do interesting things to ourselves.
    Sarah79 likes this.
  15. plum

    plum Beloved Grand Eagle

    I'm a carer (caregiver) but have a background in psychology. I've come to see that misunderstandings or failure to comprehend the essential difference between TMS and other psychosomatic conditions is fertile ground for epic examples of the doublebind. Revisiting Sarno's actual words and then figuring out what ails (hopefully with the aid of some good-hearted, open-minded doctors) gives the clarity people need to move on in their healing. I have lost count of the times I see people spinning their wheels in TMS mud while good folk stand by quite happy to help push or stick something under those pesky wheels for traction. Better to be light in spirit and open to the bounteous ways of recovering than peevishly grinding the gas pedal. You are quite right, we really do some wired out and interesting things to ourselves :bored:

    Plum x
    Sarah79, Lily Rose and DianeRadvanski like this.
  16. plum

    plum Beloved Grand Eagle

    Hi Jacqui, of course I can. Sorry for taking a while to respond but it has been Bedlam here :).

    Before I discovered John Sarno I was a great admirer of the work of Candace Pert (Sarno references her in The Divided Mind). Candace evolved from a thoroughly scientific background to a point of understanding how our emotions (neurochemicals, peptides etc) were the mediating factors in the nervous system. She created two audiobooks called Your Body is Your Subconscious Mind and To Feel G(o)od. In these she described the mindbody connection and how and why complementary methods ranging from massage to hypnosis help us heal. I have always been passionate about gentle healing methods so her words really chimed with me.

    In caring for my partner, as well as our elderly parents, and recovering from something myself I came to see that the key to healing was to nurture. We heal when we nourish our bodies, hearts and minds and sicken when we deny them.

    Modern life is riven with suffering and alienation, noise and busyness, concrete and cyber-lives. All things that stoke the sympathetic nervous system into constant activity, constant vigilance. True and deep healing comes when we realise that this is not our natural state. Our bodies are designed to predominantly spend time in the parasympathetic state with the occasional necessary flip into the sympathetic. We don't even realise how wired we are. It becomes habitual.

    Too often I read of people pushing and fighting in their attempts to heal. I find this further engages the sympathetic branch. I also find it too masculine in energetic terms. I am a very feminine woman and I shun most of the current cultural beliefs surrounding gender. An integral part of my healing has been to cherish my warm, sensual, juicy, fruity, curvy, ripe, playful, sexual, mothering, emotional, earthy self. I believe we bloom from nature, from the womb, in the same way that flowers blossom and trees burgeon. We are made of the elements of the universe. We are nature.

    "What the mystic has always told us about the unity of all life, and what science is telling us about quantum coherency and the non-locality of space and time, is sounding remarkably similar." - Susan Raven

    We heal when we follow natures laws. Sleep when it is dark, eat God-given foods that grow, when we move, love and touch things (@Lily Rose ~ "An experience on the other hand, can be denied and even forgotten, but it cannot be inexperienced. Experience changes you forever". - Eliot Cowan. My sweet Lily Rose is an experience that changes you forever).

    Indulge me, I am in a poetic mood. Ironic then that my battery is about to go kaput. And so...

    Sleep has been the single biggest factor in my healing. It has helped me in itself and had also calmed my aggitated nervous system. David Hanscom's writings verified my personal experience and clarified exactly why it was the missing element.

    I eat nourishing foods. I love to cook and care for people.
    I spend as much time in Nature as I can. Candace Pert suggested that for every hour you spend online you should two hours in Nature. I find this to be exemplary advice.

    I swim. I practice Yin Yoga. I cloudwatch. I read novels (research finds that within six minutes of settling down with a good novel, that the parasympathetic nervous system begins to engage). I listen to music. I love my people. Hold them, tend to them, let them know that they are loved, and they reciprocate fully. I am myself.

    An expanded healing program is whatever works for you. It is an acknowledgement of your deep and true nature. Of your wildness (civilisation is madness - Freud). It is respecting your body and cherishing it, not sacrificing it to hubris. It is to be fully alive in whatever ways that means for you.

    Plum x
    Sarah79, Susan1111, westb and 2 others like this.
  17. Abbo

    Abbo Well known member

    What a brilliant and intuitive post Plum. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for explaining all the above in such a comprehensible way.
    I will save this post and read it every day to remind myself the healing ability I have within me.

    Abbo x
    plum, Lily Rose and riv44 like this.
  18. plum

    plum Beloved Grand Eagle

    You have given life. You have created it within your own body. That same incredible power resides within you now.

    I have found it beneficial to embrace a fertility mindset. It matters not that we may be past child-bearing because we still can create and birth health, ideas and goodness. To hold your body in the same state of reverence you had when you carried your sweet babe are exactly the conditions to replicate. Be mindful of what you put into your body and your mind, relish the tenderness of creation, embrace the fears of birthing (returning to full health and wholeness) in full knowledge you were made for this. It is from the heart that we birth our true selves.

    You are a sweet and beautiful soul Abbo. You are gentle in a harsh world. I love you for this and know that your healing is as certain as sunrise.

    With much love,

    Plum x
    Lily Rose likes this.
  19. Abbo

    Abbo Well known member

    Dear Plum,

    Your words have touched the deep emotions within me and all I can say is thank you for the wonderful insight you have given to us all in understanding the ability we have to heal ourselves. The feminine approach is far more understandable and acceptable to me. I love the feeling that I am nurturing my healing just like I nurtured my beautiful babies. Your words make so much sense.

    Thank you again Dear Plum

    Abbo x
    plum and Lily Rose like this.
  20. DianeRadvanski

    DianeRadvanski New Member

    HI Plum...I have my PhD in Clinical Psych. I miss my work greatly. Had to give up a great job to work toward licensure when this started in April 2015. I truthfully prefer a multimodal and multidisciplinary approach because I think both western and eastern mediciNE should not have to be at odds although I know they r with their approach and training. I have helped many clients of all ages using a variety of techniques and try to be as open minded as possible. But I must say when there is an approach that claims to be the cause of all things and and cures all things I get skeptical. Not every medical Condit in is caused by Psychological factors. I often believe there is overlap. So I am holding out a bit for myself because of the complexity of my neuropathy and possibly and other autoimmune system. Meanwhile I am likin and learning more about TMS.

    Always nice chatting with you!
    westb, Lily Rose and plum like this.

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