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Something to think about... Mind body paradigm

Discussion in 'General Discussion Subforum' started by inymyfruitcup, Dec 22, 2015.

  1. inymyfruitcup

    inymyfruitcup New Member

    The more and more I read about mind body healing inside of TMS and outside of TMS the more I can draw can comparisons between the two. In fact they both pretty much say the same thing... "There is nothing wrong with you, your body is simply trying to divert attention or even bring attention to something in your life". I think the main difference I find is that mind body healing outside of TMS has a fair amount of mentions of rekindling a spiritual practices or a belief in something higher. They both even lay out "personality types" that are pretty much both the same.

    That being said... Couldn't practically any illness of idiopathic nature be healed with the TMS approach? Autoimmune illness, cancer, etc? Assuming it want brought on by something like poisoning, pathogen/virus, or an irreparable injury?

    It just seems like both parties are saying the same exact thing, and that we might still be stuck in the paradigm of treating diseases rather than proctoring or pushing for wellness.
    It's no secret here that the mind has an interaction with the body, but why is there a line to be drawn?

    These are just some things I have been thinking. What are your thoughts?

    Here's a recent Gabor Mate article that touches on this http://www.yesmagazine.org/issues/g...ow-to-build-a-culture-of-good-health-20151116
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2015
  2. Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)

    Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021) Beloved Grand Eagle

    Hi, inymyfruitcup. I like Gabor Mate's article and thank you for posting it.
    My way of thinking is similar... Think you are happy and you will be happy and in good health.
    If discouraged about pain or problems, try the mantra: The best is yet to come!
  3. Renee

    Renee Well known member

    I absolutely love Gabor Mate. I've watched a few of his lectures on You Tube. I could listen to him speak all day. Thanks for posting this article.
    JanAtheCPA likes this.
  4. Andy Bayliss

    Andy Bayliss TMS Coach & Beloved Grand Eagle

    Hi Friutinmycup,
    I love the article. I think you are right. In essence, there is no difference in these approaches. I notice at the end, Matte recommends the same thing that seems to address TMS: develop self-compassion, understanding, and try not to act the old patterns out on yourself...the only thing that Dr. Sarno adds is that simply the awareness of the mind-body connection can do a lot toward addressing the symptoms/conditions.
    Andy B.
    JanAtheCPA likes this.
  5. Kalo

    Kalo Well known member

    I read this article and find it very disheartening! Exactly, can someone tell me what is the cure for not getting the noted diseases that Garbor Mate says people get because of not saying NO! Can anyone tell me what REPRESSED emotions are? What are they??? Everyone talks about repressed emotions?

    Explain what REPRESSION is so we do not get sick...

    Or, what do when a elderly Mother can not afford to go into assistant living facility and her only daughter who has now quite her job has to take care of her do? Do I say, NO! And shove her into a shithole nursering facility to take care of me???

    This man offers no solution, but, scares the living crap out of me!

    I can deal with repressed emotions causing TMS? But all the above diseases he mentions makes me hypochondria worst which causes a person to seek more testing..

    AlaaJ likes this.
  6. Markus

    Markus Guest

    Amazing article, he's a pioneer ! I have his book"When The Body Says No"!
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 22, 2015
  7. Andy Bayliss

    Andy Bayliss TMS Coach & Beloved Grand Eagle

    Hi Kalo,
    I get everything you are saying.

    Maybe it is best to forget the article. In a way it is written for all of us, practitioners and sufferers to take a big picture look at evidence that the mind-body connection is real, and that the greater academic community, and some physicians are adding this to their understanding. Just that: understanding about this relationship between mind-body is growing.

    Forget the horror stories, and just love where and when you can, and be real with yourself. That is how the article ends.

    If the article pisses you off, that's OK. That's real! You feel stuck and afraid. The article does not help you. So be it!!

    Andy B.
  8. Kalo

    Kalo Well known member

    Hi Andy,

    Thanks for your words of wisdom! You are right I do feel stuck and afraid!!! I was so desperate of this sciatic pain that I have been having for 8 months that I went to a chiropractor and he did an Xray...He said everything looks great for my age and he couldn't believe the flexibility I have for late 40's..

    Now, I am paranoid because I had an Xray done and afraid of xray exposure...Weird...

    Since my Dad passed away and all this caregiving fell on my plate, I am stuck in fight or flight...

  9. Boston Redsox

    Boston Redsox Well Known Member


    been in the same spot with my dad when he passed in 09 and i am still suffering...yes i do have a toxic marriage and at the same time my son was very sick. My nervous system is a mess I have done it all but Finally I am going to take Dr hanscom advice and settle down my nervous system via tms modalities and meds and i need sleep I dont get how people deal with there tms and there evedyday life stressors without sleeping
  10. Kalo

    Kalo Well known member

    Marco, I truly believe that our bodies are in flight or fight and the switch isn't turned off...I am starting to realize that the old primitative child...Child is upset is not very valid to newer TMS approach or coaches out there.

    It's about our nervous system being reved up...

    Okay, with the meds, I am scared to take this Elavil shit because I am trying to withdrawl from Klonopin which is the worst thing ever...

    I finally quited my part time job to take care of my Mom cause she was getting worst...I am starting to freak out on how I am going to pay bills....

    Anti depressants are a crap shoot and the stop working after a while....In 2002 I was put on Paxil and it stopped working...Some research show (which I don't believe) that antidperessants are nothing more than a placebo effect.

    I don't understand how they can say that because with some people who take them, it works and others become suicidal or act very different! I can't chance that with my Mom right now..

    Heck Klonopin withdrawl makes me moody and I don't want my Mom to have to deal with that...

  11. Boston Redsox

    Boston Redsox Well Known Member

    I dont believe that every med that seems to help is a placebo thats total BS
  12. Kalo

    Kalo Well known member

    I agree Marco!!! I don't either because they do change brain chemicals...I am afraid to take them because of what it could do to me mentally. It could make me worst ya see what I mean?

    Plus, they have a konk out period...Then when they stop working you start cocktailing...

  13. Boston Redsox

    Boston Redsox Well Known Member


    i been dealing with tms for awhile know and its the only explantion for what I suffer with. I have done tms therpists Drs the Sep twice numerous other authors and so forth . Its been a long journey with no results of any kind. I am leaning towards be pharma for some relief some way of life. And in the mean time I will be aware of my emotions and not put so much pressure on myself and wont beat myself up for taking them and if they dont help i will switch
  14. blake

    blake Well known member

    Hi kalo,

    I know what you mean. I've had a very stressful life and the thought of being further punished with some disease because of that just feels cruel and unfair. That's how I used to see it anyway. Now, I think to myself that if it's true that repressed emotions cause cancer, for example, and that the solution is tms knowledge, well then I'm good to go! There's nothing else I need to be doing, except following Dr. Sarno's protocol. So now, whenever I get these scary thoughts about getting cancer, I remind myself that I'm on track. It makes me feel reassured and more at peace.
  15. Boston Redsox

    Boston Redsox Well Known Member

    move over i am in the same boat
  16. riv44

    riv44 Well known member

    I have neck pain that gets bad at the end of the day, after 3P.M. It just is. Some of it is structural. My response to it has changed from panicked to acceptance. It used to be back pain, lower lumbar and mid-spine. What I have learned since I picked up Sarno's book is that the body has a great capacity to heal itself. And that pain doesn't have to become chronic.
  17. Boston Redsox

    Boston Redsox Well Known Member

    Love Claire Weeks
  18. JanAtheCPA

    JanAtheCPA Beloved Grand Eagle

    Interestingly and ironically, Dr. Mate himself addresses the issues of the caregiver, in a video which I highly highly recommend to anyone else who might be interested, but I know that he scares Kalo.

    Kalo: the thing is, you are obviously enraged at your caregiver role, you know that, we all know that, and it is what is causing you so much pain and grief. This is what Dr. Mate tells us - that it is PERFECTLY NORMAL for the caregiver to be enraged, not only at the role, but at the person. But you have to give yourself permission to acknowledge the rage fully before you can help yourself. He says that the way in which a caregiver gives support will determine how that person survives the experience.

    The particular negative emotion that your brain is successfully repressing is rage against the person you are caring for - your mother. The mother, by the way, who raised the brother that you are so angry with (and just whose fault might it be that he turned out to be a self-centered asshole?) And isn't this the mother who (along with your father) didn't have the balls to tell you and your brother that you were adopted, until shortly before your father's death, when you were in your thirties/forties?? Good grief, if that isn't enraging, I don't know what the hell is.

    Your brain is doing a superb job of hiding the true source of your rage from you. And if you follow Dr. Sarno, then you pretty much also have to follow Freud - and Freud says that our inherent life-long rage comes initially from our parental relationships - and this is true of every human being, no matter what our family situations were. If you don't acknowledge any amount of rage towards your parents (which in the case of adoptees includes the biological ones who did not raise you) then you are very deep in repression.

    I'm just guessing, of course - based only upon what you have said here, and in particular what you haven't said. What I know for sure is that the greatest gift you (and anyone reading this) can give yourself is to consciously acknowledge the real reasons for your rage. Preferably in writing. You will discover that doing so is not the end of the world, and it could be the beginning of emotional freedom.
  19. kyrani99

    kyrani99 Peer Supporter

    This article is refreshing coming from a medico but it still falls short of the very ideal that he speaks about. He is talking about mind and body connection but still within the paradigm of “the body is a machine” Though it is not stated, he seems to connect the mind to brain circuitry that is developed in childhood and becomes fixed as to become the source of disease in adulthood. Thus he talks about repressed emotions and the personality becoming a saboteur. I disagree with this and I believe it can never be a road to health.

    The giant step that the doctors need to make is to throw away the “body is a machine and disease a malfunction of the machine or damage to the machine” and embrace a new paradigm that “the body is purpose-driven, that ideas and especially those we treat seriously or with confidence cause us (the personality) to react and that reaction is not simply ideas but bodily reactivity.. changes to body function, which may include raising the metabolism, lowering the metabolism and unnecessary immune and stem cell responses. This can happen and very soon but a lot of negative forces need to be overcome in the meantime. The medical industry is dominated by the pharmaceutical industry who see people as sources of profit when they are ill so they have no motivation to promote a system that leads to health.

    Relationship issues in all areas are key factors but to appreciate this we need to see that we are more than a lump of matter, that there is an immaterial aspect to this creation. We may call it mind but it is a platform on which and through which we all interact. I have been criticized for having the following view but I do believe there are two vastly different groups of people. Those that are toxic and those that are non-toxic.

    The former abuse relationship and the advantages gained through relationship. They look to skew the relationship totally and by criminal means to gain power and influence over others but do so in a sly manner so that they are not obvious or often not even suspected. They want to dominate, to manipulate and to control others with whom they are in relationship but such actions come at a cost. Disease, in the least case is the collateral damage. Most often it is a means of betrayal and /or punishment but always for narcissistic supply.

    The latter may have many and various faults but they basically relate in a manner that maintains a reasonable level of equality between the parties. So while there may be disagreements and discord, the parties are able to continue to have health.

    At present the actions of toxic people are raked over by the psychiatric profession, who deny the interpersonal mental environment that exists within relationship, they deny the ability of related parties to be able to perceive ideas that one party may mentally present to the other and they deny the malicious harm that the toxic people do. Instead they are calling them “functional psychopaths” or “successful psychopaths” and claim that while they may cheat others, they are not really harmful. Thus they protect the very means by which diseases manifest. They want people to reacts unsuspectingly as to suffer disease and at the same time hold them responsible for their reactions.

    I have seen repeatedly in my life that I can take control and heal from disease, and I am talking about cancer, diabetes and some allergies. AND be able to “stage-manage one’s biology” so that I do not suffer from these anymore. But I haven’t done that walking blindfold in the dark. We may not always be fully aware of the ideas and even in some cases the emotions but when we understand the nature of the foul play we can see the big picture, which is all that is necessary to heal.
    Scott.Cameron likes this.
  20. inymyfruitcup

    inymyfruitcup New Member

    Hey there, I found what you said to be interesting. Care to expand on it? Or could you point me in the direction some things?
    I like hearing these kinds of insights. Aside from looking into these things because of my own problems, I have to admit, mind/body healing philosophy has become a bit of a hobby of mine as I find it fascinating.

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