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Discussion in 'General Discussion Subforum' started by rcal43, Jan 7, 2014.

  1. Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)

    Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021) Beloved Grand Eagle

    There are many ways to heal from TMS pain, as Steve says, and the best are mindbody-spiritual, I've found. The more we're okay with others and ourselves, the better we feel.

    We're into the January doldrums, emotionally, so we may have to work harder to boost our spirits and be happy. If it's cold, snowy, or raining, laugh about it.
    • :)
    Forest and North Star like this.
  2. miffybunny

    miffybunny Beloved Grand Eagle

    Hi Anne,
    I appreciate your rebuttal to Steve because I was worried that I gave the wrong impression. When I mentioned Monte and his book "The Master Practice", I was in no way espousing a specific route towards recovery. I was simply sharing one example of something that helped me at a particular time. Just as I don't believe God is particularly concerned with religion, I don't believe (and I read this somewhere) Dr. Sarno is concerned with the path we follow as long as we have accepted his diagnosis. There are many portals to overcoming TMS and as long as one gains self confidence and self empowerment, whether it's attained from Dr. Schubiner, Dr. Brady, Steve, etc., that is all that matters. Just because Monte doesn't have an official stamp or blessing from Dr. Sarno, does not mean his work lacks validity. Critical thinking and open mindedness are not mutually exclusive. I may be missing something but at this point it's irrelevant since I've achieved the correct mindset. I believe that as long as we are not using "crutches" or falling into a placebo trap, we each have something valuable to offer.
  3. Steve Ozanich

    Steve Ozanich TMS Consultant

    Anne you're on a roll in slamming me for some reason. So let's take a look at this. When you say this above, "Steve - we do not have to tie our flag to one ship." Did you not read what I said above that?... "My stance has always been the same. There's no right or wrong way "to have healed."' I thought my statement was clear, that there are many methods to heal.

    I have no idea what Monte does or is doing. I'm happy it is helping people. And I also never said that his work put down Dr. Sarno, where did you get that from? I said, up above, that people have told me, he's written emails "saying that Dr. Sarno's work is old and outdated." That's all I said. I think it's distasteful to use the good doctor's work for gain and then put him down in any way.

    I never made any statement about Monte's work. I couldn't make one, I've never looked into it. After I read him talking about Type A personalities I realized he didn't quite understand it. They are not Type A, as Dr. Sarno noted. He also stated that there are no repressed emotions (if I quoted that right), and there are absolutely repressed emotions involved. So I personally would never look into it. But like I said, up above, who cares how people heal? Healing is all that matters. If it works use it. I'm glad it helped you and others.

  4. Eric "Herbie" Watson

    Eric "Herbie" Watson Beloved Grand Eagle

    Tennis Tom -- nice to see you here my friend. I learned so much from you in my early days as a little Green horn. Hows the days been tom.
    Its sure nice to see your smile my friend.
    Bless You
    Forest likes this.
  5. Anne Walker

    Anne Walker Beloved Grand Eagle

    Steve - I want to sincerely apologize if you felt I was slamming you in any way. That was not my intent at all. That is why I detest the internet at times. Discussions are so much better in person!
  6. Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)

    Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021) Beloved Grand Eagle

    I'm glad to read this, Anne. As a journalist, I know how easy it is to miscommunicate.
    Politicians do it all the time. lol.
    Forest and North Star like this.
  7. miffybunny

    miffybunny Beloved Grand Eagle

    Hi Anne,
    I was confused about the tone of Steve's post as well. I didn't read your questions as "slamming" but as seeking clarification. I also apologize Steve if I seemed negative towards your post but I was honestly confused. Monte is recommended on this site, and I had the impression that you were discounting him in some way. I respect your opinion since you may be aware of something I'm not. I didn't post back earlier because I'm starting to realize how email can be misconstrued since we can't hear tone or see visual cues.
  8. Steve Ozanich

    Steve Ozanich TMS Consultant

    Wow, Anne and Miff, you didn't need to apologize to me. Now I feel bad that you felt the need to. When I said "slamming" I simply meant 'took a hard stance,' or ' vehemently disagreed.' I didn't take it personally. Those types of things no longer bother me, and that's a big reason why I'm healed now. At one point in my life that would have offended me, and maybe had a pain-flare up. But you get to a point where your ego no longer drives your life and you don't over-react physiologically to words or events. It's called letting go, and compassion. You learn to see the others' points of view because they are you, you are them.

    The only thing that bothered me was when you used the word fat. Go delete that post, don't think like that. See yourself in a new light. Abigail Steidley said it best in her summarization of how to heal from TMS, she said, "love yourself, love yourself, love yourself." If you can't love yourself first you can never love anyone else. It took me 40 years to learn to love myself for who I am, flaws and all. When I did, I began to love other people in a new light. I see you both as me, at that point in my life.

    Good point Miff, you can't hear tones and cues in email. If Anne would have seen me writing a response to her I was smiling as I began writing it. I even laughed when I wrote that word "slamming." It was a poke back at you for saying I was so wrong. It was in gest.

    When you write a book, on such a controversial topic as TMS, you better have thick skin. I've been spit at, had things thrown at me, and been poked in the chest with many a finger. I knew as a released my book that I would get a great backlash, but I also knew that if I could help people from suffering, anyone, that I would gladly take the heat from the ignorant ones. Now that I see that the book is helping lots of people I rarely react to criticism of it. Those who "slam" it, simply aren't aware yet, and don't know the reasons certain things are put in there, or why the order of things is the way it is.

    Only once did a reviewer bother me, it was because she lied about my book. She said that I said something that I never said in it. She inferred at my peril.

    Miffy I went 2 days ago and watched Miffy make a snowman on YouTube. Fun stuff. If I ever have grandkids I will show them that. Very relaxing, innocent stuff. Better than a drug to calm the body. I also see there's a Miffy Loves New York.

    Be well,

    Slammin' Stevie
    Forest likes this.
  9. North Star

    North Star Beloved Grand Eagle

    Slammin' Stevie…I'm learning more from you than you'll ever know. It's such a joy and a privilege to interact with you here…especially since I'm re-reading your book and using it as a journal prompt. It's like you're my personal TMS coach….THANK YOU. (BTW- The humor in your book cracks me up. "Hanging around like a politician at a fund raiser…"

    Anne and MiffyBunny- You gals just rock. I tense up at signs of conflicts (uh, think that might be a little TMS?) and love how this unfolded. I love seeing how something like this has such a good outcome on a forum, versus a flame war and people stomping off, hurt.

    As I learn more and more of the MindBody connection, handling conflict…even if it's just *perceived* conflict, is a huge tool in moving toward health and wholeness.

    Group hug to everyone! :)
    Ellen and Forest like this.
  10. Steve Ozanich

    Steve Ozanich TMS Consultant

    Remember Northstar, TMS itself stems from conflict. There can only be conflict if there are two opposing sides. If you refuse to oppose, you defeat any conflict. That's why relatively few things bother me any more. And as you wrote here, "even if it's perceived." Dissolve the perception of conflict by disavowing ego's hold. I try to see everyone here as me, in other time, place, and perception.

    When people take things hard or are offended I see it as them having problems, or that they are suffering, and I let it go. I never even saw a conflict until I read an apology today. Surprised me actually.

    I'm glad you feel as though I'm your personal TMS coach, now drop and give me 20. I decided to keep my humor in the book because it's me. Who else can I be but me? My clothes fit better that way. There have been a couple people who said they didn't like the joking around with such "serious matters" but the other 99.999% have been laughing. Those who can't be silly and laugh just have their own problems. It's their problem not mine.

    The French Philosopher Voltaire said, "God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh." We are supposed to find joy in life, not be sticks in the mud. But of course not all humor connects with all people. The TMSers, or BDSers (copyright, Forest, BDSWiki, 2014) are a savvy smart lot though. They get things quickly and are deep thinkers. That's part of their problem.

    What state are you in Northstar?

    Steve (copyright, Jan. 14 1959)
    Eric "Herbie" Watson and Ellen like this.
  11. North Star

    North Star Beloved Grand Eagle

    I'm in Big Sky Country, Steve…that be Montana. I just finished the 20 so please….no more beatin's! Actually I lied. But I did give the house a thorough vacuuming, does that count for anything? ;) (And it just occurred to me, vacuuming is something I swore off preTMS days because it was a migraine trigger. Nary a peep from my shoulder today.)

    This conflict thing is something I'm becoming more aware of. Case in point…the other day I found myself mutter, "I am so tired of this battle!" Or something of the sort. I was ticked and tired. Our new year has kicked off with all sorts of fun.

    When I paused in my mental rantings, a little whisper suggested I quit looking at everything as a battle and just accept it. That REALLY ticked me off. So yeah. Disarming conflict is a…a…a non-battle to be embraced.
    I think humor is a powerful tool. I've actually been a humor columnist (I'm a writer), and use it a lot when I coach parents of kids with ADHD. I've told my hubby lately it's time I exercise my funny bone more. Between TMS pain and family stressors, it's atrophied. But I know it's still there…and laughter only primes the pump for fun, creativity and healing.

    I love the quote from Voltaire!
    Ellen likes this.
  12. Steve Ozanich

    Steve Ozanich TMS Consultant

    A lot of people email me from Colorado, Montana and Wyoming, What's going on up there? Wait, I see it now...higher altitude, less oxygen flow! Well I tried.

    I'm trying to think of a state I've never gotten an email from. Mmmm, don't remember one from Hawaii yet. The others have been covered. Not sure about Minnesota though.

    You will see that your body is over reacting to life, to little things that don't matter, AND you're not aware of it, it's automatic and outside of your consciousness. Your internal language is flying too fast, slow it waaaay down. Breathe, let your body fall heavy.

    I'm happy your shoulder is not peeping today. As you let more things go your body will cease to react physiologically, breathe deep, let go. But it's tough, the most difficult thing is letting go of something, because ego is present and fear. But they both go together.

    I've noticed what a big player sex is in it, as (one s) well. I think to a large extent Freud was right in so many ways. I know people who lost relationships and so their sex lives left too, snapping at people and arguing with everyone around them. Little things bother and irritate them, they start getting headaches and all types of pains. People with passionate sex lives, the ones getting some, the ones we hate, are the ones that are more forgiving, laughing, high energy and smiling. I see it in males and females. But (one t) sex is simply one aspect of the larger relationship picture. It does relieve tension and literally connects us to one another.

    All I have to say about vacuum cleaners is that they suck.

    Eric "Herbie" Watson likes this.
  13. North Star

    North Star Beloved Grand Eagle

    I can't speak for CO or WY but there's a few reasons, me thinks, that Montana has the dubious distinction of some of the highest alcoholism/drunk driving/teen suicide rates in the country. (It would be interesting to see a map of TMS diagnosis but then again, alcoholism and other health conditions could be extrapolated.) I know for us, a big factor is the long and severe winters. We hope to be in AZ before fall this year…

    Sex. Whoa boy. Now THERE'S a hot button topic. Speaking as a recovering Victorian-flavored ("think of the queen and close your eyes, dear!") religious-holic, I think your observations are spot on. TMS distractions is a huge hindrance to sex, no doubt about that. (And if had a nickel for woman that punish their husbands/partners by deprivation…at least they're aware of their withholding behavior.)

    My vacuum cleaner is self-propelled. Wheeeeeee! I try not to let the power get to my head.
    Eric "Herbie" Watson likes this.
  14. Steve Ozanich

    Steve Ozanich TMS Consultant

    Arizona is one state that I'm not sure I've heard from either. What's holding them up?

    Speaking of sex, you took it a different way than I was speaking of, velly intellesting. Some have contacted me to say that whenever they saw someone that they were attracted to they went into severe pain spasms. I know why now, but their stories were fascinating and taught me much about impulses and superego-id conflict. They're all doing well now and healed in various ways. Freud said that whenever he got males or females under deep psychoanalysis that they "almost always" had some sort of sexual hangup there. That's one reason I quoted Groddeck, "It must punish a sin against a commandment." Many who emailed me were sons and daughters of pastors. Thus, the sin, thus the self punishment, against natural desires ~~~> conflict. Groddeck was one of the greatest healers of all, like Dr. Sarno, through observance.

    But you were speaking of withholding sex. I think most men realize that, but what is the gain? I think I know.

    Eric "Herbie" Watson likes this.
  15. North Star

    North Star Beloved Grand Eagle

    Hmmmm….I bet AZ, being full of retirees who are past the Age of Responsibility, as Sarno called it, has a lower incidence of TMS.

    Dang, internet forums are great but limited. Sex is one of those topics that have been so mangled and corrupted by culture it's hard to parse out the issues to get to a place where one can have a healthy discussion. But yet it is such a basic need along with food, water and love.

    The withholding sex thing is something I've observed….mainly veiled conversations with other women, I think is one of the TMS equivalents used subconsciously as a weapon against their spouse because of the anger of not feeling like their emotional needs are met. Woman with multiple chemical sensitivities, fibromyalgia, etc…you know, severe TMS don't have…nor want…a sex life. They want a good back rub and to be understood. They want their pain to go away and when hubby/partner asks, "Shall I lock the door dear?" well…HOW DARE THEY? I'm familiar all too well with that dynamic, especially during some of the acute flares of my TMS.

    And then yeah, throw in the hang ups. To say nothing of sexual abuse growing up and the spin that puts on things. That brings the conflict to a whole new level.
  16. Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)

    Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021) Beloved Grand Eagle

    Even Casnova was not the perfect lover, so I'll pass on the subject of sex.

    I think most women want romance and love (like in the song,
    "Try a Little Tenderness," and most men want big boobs.

    The first makes some sense to me, and the second baffles me.

    It makes me wonder about the afterlife. Who does a woman live with in heaven
    if she's married more than once? What about Elizabeth Taylor?
  17. North Star

    North Star Beloved Grand Eagle

    LOL, Walt…Seems to me Jesus was asked that very same question…

    The book, "Conversations With God" addresses this topic. It's very interesting.
  18. Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)

    Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021) Beloved Grand Eagle

    I guess I'll just wait until I see her "up there" and see who she's with.
    North Star likes this.

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