1. Alan has completed the new Pain Recovery Program. To read or share it, use this updated link: https://www.tmswiki.org/forum/painrecovery/
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
Our TMS drop-in chat is tomorrow (Saturday) from 3:00 PM - 4:00 PM Eastern (now US Daylight Time) . It's a great way to get quick and interactive peer support, with JanAtheCPA as your host. Look for the red Chat flag on top of the menu bar!

Repudiating the Structural...

Discussion in 'General Discussion Subforum' started by Huckleberry, Mar 7, 2014.

  1. Huckleberry

    Huckleberry Well known member

    ...why the hell is this so hard to do?

    Obviously, I do totally understand that if you told the average Joe in the street that their backache could be caused by something other than a physical/structural issue then its quite likely and understandable that they would poo poo this idea. I'm more intrigued (and frustrated as in my case) as to why even if we have all the TMS theory and smarts all nailed down why it is still often so hard to give up that physical causation explanation for our pain.

    I know that the Cartesian mind/body duality is entrenched in our ways of looking at our bodies and any illness or injury we may have but I am so frustrated that even when I look outside of this and see all its faults and inherent contradictions its still so hard to accept the non structural causality in our specific case.

    When I read over posts on here I often see it said that accepting the TMS diagnosis becomes easier with time...I'm not really sure if thats true in general but I have found that as time goes on the structural 'doubt' is still as strong as ever and nothing really seems to counter this to a great extent.

    Whats interesting to me is that even if I discard the Sarno Freudian theory of TMS and think psychological in the way that my pain's causality is due to a hyper stimulated nervous system and learned neural pathways even though that this is accepted by many pain specialists I still have to see the pain as structural and almost picture up images of joints rubbing together and a dysfunction. I think the fear of continuing to do damage and also that things will not improve is huge and I wonder if this is a universal stumbling block in being pulled back into the structural mindset.

    Thanks for reading and for any comments.
    Eric "Herbie" Watson likes this.
  2. Ellen

    Ellen Beloved Grand Eagle

    I don't think believing that a hyper-stimulated nervous system and learned neural pathways play a part in your pain means that you must see the pain as structural--any more than Sarno's theory of ischemia caused pain means that the pain is structural. The initial trigger for these physical processes is psychological. Only when the psychological factors are addressed will the initial trigger be removed.

    Have you listened to the recording of the interview with TMS author Steve Conenna yet? He does a wonderful job of laying out the psychological/emotional factors in TMS and how to address them. Here is the link below.


    This is the clearest explanation I've heard of this so far. I hope it may help, dear Huckleberry.
    Eric "Herbie" Watson and Msunn like this.
  3. Tennis Tom

    Tennis Tom Beloved Grand Eagle

    Candace Pert, who recently passed away, did groundbreaking work furthering the science behind TMS. "Learned neural pathways," to me conjures up something like a paved highway that will be pretty difficult to change. TMS manifestations can move very fast, at the speed of a blush or the fight/flight instinct. The pathway is the nervous system, which is electro-chemical: cerebrospinal fluid, poly-neuropeptides, pro-preoceptors, etc. Pert discovered that chains of polyneuropeptides carrying mindbody messages create TMS pain attaching themselves to cells. I like to think that I can chase these bad neuropeptide messengers away, forcing them out of my body through whichever orifice is handiest. I may have mangled the science here but I'm only a tennis player, not a doctor, don't report me to the AMA or the USTA.

    Here's info on Candace Pert: //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candace_Pert
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2014
    Eric "Herbie" Watson likes this.
  4. jazzhands

    jazzhands Peer Supporter

    I would say yes it is definitely a universal problem that we all have to deal with. It's hard to really accept, especially since we live in a society where chronic pain is common and almost universally thought to be caused by structural issues. You know I pulled my shoulder really good the other day when a 90lb bell tried to take my arm sideways and I was in the shower thinking uh oh what if I tore my rotator cuff or something like that. Even though my shoulder just felt odd and hurt when I moved it into very specific positions, I was still worried about structural issues. But I told myself hey I'm not going to worry about it, and every day it's gotten better and I think it will be gone tomorrow. Back when I was really suffering from TMS, every little ding and scrape would stress me out for days; I'd think this is the one that's finally going to do me in and I won't be able to live a normal life.

    The anxiety about causing structural damage stresses you out, and makes TMS even worse! It's something you really have to strive to accept.
    Eric "Herbie" Watson likes this.
  5. Eric "Herbie" Watson

    Eric "Herbie" Watson Beloved Grand Eagle

    Cause this is how your mind wants you to React Huckleberry. Don't lose on the idea that TMS's whole plan is to get your attention on to the body. You have to lose the thoughts of structural damage by habit ok -- You learned it be conditioning , now you will re-condition. One day as you struggle to not think structural and struggle then you will just not be struggling anymore. You have to fight it huckleberry. You will win, you have a winners attitude.
    You do have all of Claire Weekes stuff right?

    Do you meditate every day to calm your ANS system? Do you do Breathing exercises? Are you watching your reactions? And are you doing everything you have wanted to do to be happy -- all plans in the works. Are you practicing focusing if need be and do you know the daily 12 reminders by heart?

    I just want you to know the extent of Knowledge therapy ok. Now you might be doing all these and I'd still ask more programs cause until you heal this is what it takes. If I ever slowed down in my healing I would learn more. This learning is thinking psychological ya know so hang in there, take 1 day and 1 lesson at a time. Get real -- real good and you will get better. Time does heal so how long you been on your protocol? Do you have all of the above programs with plenty of practice. Have you lost the fear and focus? In other words focus is fear.

    Again, this is the main symptom of TMS other than the pain. It is your brain your battling and the conditioning of course but deep down you know the truth. That's why your here.

    This is when you have to believe. Hundreds of thousands have healed using Sarnos Method alone. Then Claire Weekes and Abraham Low. Alan Gordon and Dr. Zafirides. Candace Pert and Dr. Shubiner. Gabor Mate' and so many more. This method healed me from 27 years of back and body pain. You can't let some frustration hold you back ok. This is your chance to read the Masters and heal ok.

    Yes this is an universal mindset for sure huckleberry. I thought I'd lost ya. Just kidding. I do an assessment like this for everyone. Study, read and learn -- put it to practice and grow and never back down.This is your shot.

    Msunn, njoy and jazzhands like this.
  6. njoy

    njoy aka Bugsy

    Huckleberry asked,
    "...why the hell is this so hard to do?"
    and Herbie answered,
    "Cause this is how your mind wants you to React"!

    What a great answer! Why didn't I think of that? My guess is that something powerful has to happen to break down the defensive wall our mind puts up exactly because it doesn't want to know!
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2014
    Eric "Herbie" Watson and Msunn like this.
  7. Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)

    Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021) Beloved Grand Eagle

    That is a great answer from Herbie. Our mind could be a great friend or a great enemy. We have to turn our minds to be our great friend.
    It's all in positive thinking.

    A good friend was just diagnosed with a lump of something in his brain and was told it had to be looked at to determine if it is a cancerous tumor.

    That would scare anyone, but my friend has immediately decided the worst and is obsessing on his fear of dying.

    That is negative thinking at its most fatal. I'm not sure anything I can do or say will help him because he always has a fear of and avoided
    hospitals, even not seeing his wife after she had been injured in an auto accident.

    I'll work on this but he has to do it himself.
    Eric "Herbie" Watson and Msunn like this.

Share This Page