Really Struggling with Knee Pain

Hi - I'm not sure what you mean, and also the text of mine you quoted is in a different language?

 

Really no other place to put it but here, it's not really related to my issue(s) but just an observation.

I was just reading running blog that I've been following for 10+ years. The author of the blog is older (now 70+) who didn't start running until he was in his late 50's but he hadn't posted anything on his blog in 6mo until just now. Turns out he had some bouts of back pain and MRI revealed pinched nerves etc. He has been in a wheel chair for a few months and has announced he is giving up running. Compounding the problem is that he might consider running again but his wife has "Multiple System Atrophy" and is unable to mobilize, he laudably doesn't want to leave her alone in order to run/train.

It's all sad and there is nothing I can do to help, so I'm just making a comment here.

 

Yes exactly. I forgot to mention the MRI said stress fracture of the fibula/tibia in addition to the pinched nerve. Both of which have come on after a decade of getting used to running? So suspicious.

The wife was a runner as well and is now bed ridden in her 70s.

 

Interesting thread.

I too suffer from runner's knee - a source of much frustration since running alleviates my anxiety like nothing else - but I cannot decide if it's structural or not. I'd appreciate anyone's thoughts on this.

In favour of it being TMS

- I have always been active (now 40 years old) but my knee pain emerged alongside anxiety and chronic fatigue (the latter of which went away, thank goodness).
- There is no pain at all when I'm not on my feet and no discernable tenderness around the joint.
- It is a perfectly symmetrical ailment.
- I'm fine with lunges and squats, although slight bends of knee in my day to day life can bring much pain.

In favour of it being structural (I think)

- The pain is consistent in its patterns of emergence and persistence. It gets steadily worse with each run until it becomes difficult for me to walk. After a long rest, I can usually manage 2 or 3 runs pain free and then the 4th run starts with a feeling of discomfort.
- The pain subsides gradually with rest until I can walk around pain free.

I lean towards thinking it's structural. The fact that it improves with rest and worsens with exercise in a predictable linear fashion suggests structural to me.

 

I am not a doctor but this seems fishy to me. Structurally, if it can handle 3 runs it can handle 4, as long as you are not doing something like pushing too hard or not taking rest days while you recover. It sounds to me like your mind has put up the 4th run as a barrier.

If it was structural and is still recovering in some way, you could take it a little easier...you don't have to push it too the limit...but I think it working sometimes and not others in the same activity is fishy, especially if there's a pattern where you're making progress and then you *start* the activity with pain.

 

Sorry to hear you're having knee issues. I realize I haven't updated this thread with my symptoms but my knee is about as good as it's ever been. I actually rarely feel pain anymore, and I even marvel still when I descend stairs or do any other activity that used to elicit pain, but it doesn't!

I like that you're doing Evidence Sheets, I'd suggest leaning into that and add as many other line items (to each side) as you can. For me, one of the big ones was how my pain would "come and go" and I'd have "good days and bad days" - previously that would confuse the heck out of me and I therefore tried to find patterns/causes but only later did I realize this is classic TMS behavior.

As for your structural causation, just for clarification what do you mean by 2 or 3 runs are pain free but the 4th isn't? Is that the 4th consecutive day? Or is it 4 runs in a week? 2 weeks? I think like Diane said above, your mind is trying to latch onto a pattern for you to fixate on, but it's also possible that you're overusing it and feeling pain as a result.

 

Thanks for your reply.

My runs barely test my cardio and I usually put two days rest in between each one for good measure. I didn't mean to imply that run 4 is strictly the point at which I hit the pain barrier but the discomfort usually starts creeping in around that time and becomes too much to bear by the 8 or 9th.

I'm going to take 4-6 weeks out to work on my flexibility and lower body strength and then try to ease my way back into the running to see if I fare any better.

As I noted before, running is the most reliable remedy I've found for anxiety and it frustrates me immensely that, for the first time in my life, my nice lean limbs are letting me down. Swimming is the only other form of exercise that offers the meditative aspect of running but the pools near me are filthy. Walking and cycling are passable substitutes.

 

I haven't heard much in terms of what your symptoms are except for pain. Is the pain during the running? Is it immediate? If so, does it lessen after a mile or 2 warmup? Does it subside after? Are you sore? If so, for how long? Classic Runners Knee is also considered "Movie knee" as it manifests when in the sitting position. Going up, and especially down stairs is usually problematic. The pain symptoms would determine what kind of knee issue you potentially have.

As for alternative activities, uphill walking on a steep treadmill is something you might want to try. It's mindless and therefore meditative, and at 4mph and 15% incline, it's roughly the equivalent of running 9-10 min/mile flat.