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Really Struggling with Knee Pain

Discussion in 'Support Subforum' started by Mr Hip Guy, Nov 17, 2021.

  1. Mr Hip Guy

    Mr Hip Guy Well known member

    Hate to sound like a broken record and I'm not sure anyone is getting any benefit from these entries (other than me that is), but wow am I ever in the middle of a set back. My knee pain is as bad right now as it has ever been and it is extremely hard not to get discouraged and think "I was wrong all along" and throw in the towel on this "method."

    I'm going to try to go back to basics again, do some re-reading of my material and do some journaling and see if I can get to the bottom of this.
  2. cishealing

    cishealing Peer Supporter

    I'm getting a benefit from your entries. Knowing there is someone else out there that is doing the work but continuing to have bad days and nights, makes me feel less alone in this TMS journey.
  3. Mr Hip Guy

    Mr Hip Guy Well known member

    Thanks I appreciate that.

    The good news is that I'm better than I was last week at this time. And all as a result of the "usual good guys" (i.e. re-reading Sarno text, listening to certain podcasts, doing some somatic tracking, generally trying to view the pain as "no big deal")

    My other two annoyances I mentioned recently (wrist pain, and a serious crick in my neck) have been persistent though. The neck crick is particularly annoying, making me think about all kinds of catastrophic possibilities (cysts, tumors, serious spinal issues, etc). It would be ridiculous if it wasn't so disheartening that my mind tries to work me this way.
  4. Mr Hip Guy

    Mr Hip Guy Well known member

    Update - The neck crick persists. Last night it had gotten as bad as ever, with pain/stiffness radiating up from my neck to that side of my head including my ear, all accompanied by a headache in that same area. UGH. I went to bed taking a couple of Tylenol to see if that would help with the headache, had a deep night of sleep and woke feeling better. However, today the neck-crick is still there, just not to the extent as before. What's funny is I look back on this thread and this "crick" has been with me for now 3 weeks. I can't ever recall having one of these last more than a week before. In fact, this one actually went away 99% only to come back which is another rarity for me.

    Fortunately, my knee pain has settled back into that 80-85% pain free range despite ALOT of physical activity in the last 2 weeks.
  5. redster7

    redster7 Newcomer

  6. Mr Hip Guy

    Mr Hip Guy Well known member

    Wow, the timing of your post above is funny, as I have actually been dealing with a flare-up in the last 3-5 days after a long stretch where my issues with this knee were way down to about 10%. I am not sure what has precipitated the recent flare and I have been giving it a lot of thought. I do think I have been subconsciously and CONSCIOUSLY buying into some structural "noise" the last few months, including several articles in my inbox/feed about knee issues and of course all of those point to structural issues as the "cause" and physical work being the "cure". I'm talking Podcasts, articles on the "Kelsey Report", blog entries, etc. I'm prone to buy into this mentality so maybe I need to just drop all that stuff out of my feeds so I don't feel their influence. Actually typing that out seems so obvious now there is a voice inside saying "ya think?"

    Anyway, I'm in a frustrated spot right now and just hoping it passes. In the meantime, I'll dive back into the "work" and hope/plan/expect this particular flare up to recede. Thanks for asking.
  7. redster7

    redster7 Newcomer

    Sorry to hear that, I've also been experiencing knee pain for the past 18 months.
    It seemed to start as feeling a bit sore during running, which went away after the run. I also started doing quite a bit of cycling during lockdown.
    One day it felt tight and sore going upstairs, saw a Physio who diagnosed it as tendonitis. Felt like I was getting better slowly over a period of a few months.
    Then doing some work in the garden both knees became really sore and achy. Was told it was patellofemoral syndrome. I've had period where it's felt like it is getting better but like yourself experience constant flare ups.
    I now don't feel pain when doing an activity e.g. squats so much as my knees feel irritated all the time e.g. tingling and sensitive to clothes.
    Had an MRI that reported chondromalacia patella in both knees (stage 1 and 2), however Phyios have told that's quite a normal for most people e.g even without any pain to show this after the age of 30. I'm now 38.
    It's hard going from being so active to having something stop you in your tracks. I suspect stress and anxiety is the cause. I've had IBS and period of brain fog in the past. I've been reading the John Sarno book Mindbody Prescription to see if I can get relief.
  8. Mr Hip Guy

    Mr Hip Guy Well known member

    Cycling definitely aggravates my issue. I can see patterns where it will settle down after a long period of not much cycling (I still run 30+ miles a week) and then I reintroduce some cycling and it comes roaring back. This makes no sense, but it's hard to not to view that repeated cycle as having a physical cause.

    Remember your Sarno/TMS work, when something tends to get worse and worse like this despite less and less actual activity, that is a major red flag for TMS.
    fridaynotes likes this.
  9. Mr Hip Guy

    Mr Hip Guy Well known member

    This thing has really been the most persistent "worm" that has burrowed its way into my brain yet. It hangs out in there and digs a deep retreat when I think I have yanked it out, only to feed on my doubts and worries and grow stronger to present itself again later.

    I'm back on down cycle right now where it's about 50% of where it used to be. I need to step back and do some deep thinking as to what I might be worried about right now.
  10. 7dani4

    7dani4 Peer Supporter

    Your journey really mirrors mine, I just realized my knee pain may be TMS, but it's been there for 2 years and I've gone through the "I think it's healed" to "oh no it hasn't, I'm in pain" rollercoaster several times. Thank you for posting your journey, I feel less alone and like there's hope. I'm very into fitness too and not being able to do my normal activities pain free so so long is really getting me down. I'm quite young too so the thought of my future being plagued with pain and surgeries... yuck I don't want to think about that.

    Let's hope in the future we'll both be making "my pain hasn't come back in __ years" posts :D
  11. JanAtheCPA

    JanAtheCPA Beloved Grand Eagle

    See what I just wrote on the other thread that @7dani4 started - about PRT.
  12. Mr Hip Guy

    Mr Hip Guy Well known member

    Thank you for the suggestion. I have read Alan Gordon's book and still have it on my shelf, maybe it calls for a revisit. I know there is a section in there about "relapses" as well.
  13. Mr Hip Guy

    Mr Hip Guy Well known member

    Yesterday I went to a funeral for the father of a high-school classmate. I ran into some old friends and classmates from school, some of which I have not seen for 30+ years.

    Oddly, I noticed afterwards and for the remainder of the night I had NO knee pain. I even tried to "trigger" it a few times doing some movements that almost always result in some type of niggle or irritation. It really was odd and I'm baffled at what transpired to cause it.

    Of course, this morning and the rest of today it is back to baseline.
  14. 7dani4

    7dani4 Peer Supporter

    My knee pain is like that too. It just disappears completely for seemingly no reason and nothing makes it hurt. And then it appears again :D Maybe the distraction from seeing your classmates/a new experience that your brain needs to think about distracts it from creating pain...
  15. Mr Hip Guy

    Mr Hip Guy Well known member

    That's some of what I thought too. Also, it's a funeral so thoughts of mortality, coming to grips with the life I've lived so far, thinking about the relationships with some of those classmates, how we've all aged (for the better in some cases, but others did not look well), etc.

    Just tons of time in my own headspace. Maybe it was simple distraction. But absolutely zero knee pain whatsoever, no matter what I did.

    I'm going to try to take away from that is just more evidence that it's TMS. It wouldn't simply vanish if it was structural or inflammation, etc.
  16. Mr Hip Guy

    Mr Hip Guy Well known member

    I've given this some thought and I think I may have experienced an emotional release while at the visitation, funeral service, and burial. I spent a lot of time sitting and thinking, listening to others talk about their loved-one's passing, etc...and the catharsis of that process I think may have released "stuck emotions" and relieved my TMS symptoms in my knee.

    I'm going to try to take away from this how I might regularly "release" these emotions as a result.
    JanAtheCPA likes this.
  17. Mr Hip Guy

    Mr Hip Guy Well known member

    Time for an update, past due actually. Here goes:

    So a few weeks ago, I was plugging along...knee pain back down to a minimal state, say 80% good...when during one of my outdoor runs I decided to do some sprint work, basically several times of 15-20 seconds "all out" or pretty close to it. This is supposedly good for your fitness in a number of ways and I don't do this often.

    Anyway, I felt pretty good doing it but then later in the day and then the following days, these sprints seemed to aggravate one of my old bug-a-boos - hip pain. I had hip surgery 4 years ago and I have several threads here talking about my struggles with it, but suffice to say, it's definitely TMS and I've resolved it with TMS work previously. This time it seemed to somehow see the opportunity/vulnerability that my doing "risky" activity like these sprints as a chance to get back "in". It worked too, I was in some pretty severe pain, mostly in my hip and in my adductor/abductor area, and everything was stiff and "cludgy" feeling. Yikes, scary stuff. I didn't get too alarmed though, I just buckled back down and did some tried-and-true TMS work (minimizing it mentally, remembering my homework, remembering what worked before, etc), and sure enough the hip issue backed itself back down.

    Interestingly... and also a big clue that I grabbed onto...my knee pain was completely gone during this period of hip "revival." Not 80% gone...no, completely 100% gone - just like it was in that brief period I described above post-funeral. Curious huh?

    Well, you probably see where this is going - soon after I started noticing some heel pain...particularly when I was stiff or just getting out of bed...classic "plantar fascitis" symptoms. I have had this before and I know exactly what it feels like. This Plantar Fascitis is a "chronic" issue for which alot of sufferers end up getting surgery (detaching the plantar tendon - ouch) but it's clear it's a TMS thing. Well, my pain worsened as I continued to run and exercise to the point yesterday it was pretty darn painful a full 1.5 miles into my morning run. Usually it warms up with 2-3min and I feel okay...not this time, I was hobbling afterwards and stiff and sore the rest of the day. So I decided to focus on it from a TMS standpoint - and sure enough I woke this morning with it about 20% of what it was the day before and now writing this 8 hours later it's about 5%.

    So clearly the "symptom imperative" has been at work here for me. Maybe it means I have this prolonged "knee pain" issue on the run for good? Hope so but stay tuned.
    JanAtheCPA likes this.
  18. JanAtheCPA

    JanAtheCPA Beloved Grand Eagle

    This is such a great description of the ups and downs of TMS, @Mr Hip Guy - I love it!
  19. Mr Hip Guy

    Mr Hip Guy Well known member

    Thank you so much. Being heard and feeling supported is a terrific part of this community.
    JanAtheCPA likes this.
  20. Mr Hip Guy

    Mr Hip Guy Well known member

    Probably time for an update:

    When last I posted I was dealing with some plantar fascitis (but working through it) and my knee pain had complete evaporated. I'm a runner and for a few days after that post on 12/8 I continued running and had a very painful run on 12/11. Usually with this plantar fascitis (PF) issue, the PF "warms up" in a mile or 2 and then feels fine the rest of the run, only to return later after the heel area "gets cold" and "stiffens up" (I use quotes here because this is common vernacular, probably not actual truth). Well this time, it proceeded to get worse to the point I ended the 7m in significant pain, and limping. Bad news. I stopped the running and got onto some NSAIDs, and while it was particularly painful the first couple of those days...severely limiting my ability to walk...it proceeded to get tangibly better day after day to the point I was able to walk without limping 5 days later.

    I stayed on the NSAIDs though, with the goal of doing a full 2 week dose, and I continued to avoid running (substituting other cardio exercise like cycling in its place to maintain fitness). During this time I WRESTLED with the idea this being TMS, I really tried to pursue that as an option but the fact that seemed to be healing on a defined schedule, day after day getting better and better, made me think it was simply an acute injury instead.

    So at the 2 week point I tried to do a little short run again...it was tolerable but it hurt during the run and for a long time after, despite doing all the TMS techniques I could think of to apply (I was even listening to a TMS podcast during the run). Another run a few days after that had the same result, so I shut the running down again for a week.

    What makes me wonder though is that the pain is very different from what it was in the original injury. Back then, it was excruciating to arch my foot, or attempt to put weight directly on the inside of the foot (only walking along the outer edge was tolerable). Now the pain is simply a sharp pain in the heel, and I can arch my foot, or put weight anywhere I please...and the pain feels more like a bad cramp, or a stiffness that won't release. So again, I'm thinking TMS and using that change in pain type as a clue.

    As for the knee, as I said above I did a lot of cycling to replace my running and that is usually a bad idea for the knee...sure enough, I'm getting a few little niggles and tweaks in some of the same spots now that the NSAIDs have worn off and run their schedule. This is VERY VERY difficult not to get disheartened by and I am struggling keeping this new pain "in its place" and not let it bloom into full TMS again. Time to buckle down and do some work again, and posting this entry is part of that process. Wish me luck.

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