Question about Pain in non-Postural Muscles

dystonicrunner

dystonicrunner

Well known member
I questioned this assertion as being too narrow when I was reading Healing Back pain and assumed it was because it was an older book, but now I am getting through the Mindbody Prescription, Dr. Sarno still states it:

"As for muscle, the brain has chosen to target only what are known as postural muscles - the muscles of the neck, shoulders, and the entire back."

This is from Part 3 - Introduction to the Tensions Myositis Syndrome: Manifestations in Low Back and Legs in the very first paragraph. In my edition it is page 57.

Obviously pain in these areas are very common those with TMS, but it seems like pain in literally every other part of the body can also be TMS. The varied experiences on this forum seem to point to that. I personally probably have pain everywhere BUT my back, shoulders, and neck, or at least they are rare to happen.

I have a ton of tendon pain and nerve pain. Are those to blame my pain in my primary areas (Feet, knees, ankles, quads)? I do think I have muscle pain too. I also have a significant amount of muscle tension where my quads or calf muscles can feel like a rock.

Another similar question - for those who have say pain from migraines - is it considered muscular? Not muscular, nerve, or tendon but something else?

Is this assertion still there because the book was written in 1998 and Sarno continued to evolve?
 
A lot of the subsequent experts on this branched out to include just about anything that isn't infection, tumor, cancer, things like that, which are an obvious true body issue. I think it might be Steve Ozanich who had this appendix in his book of all these things that could be TMS or what they call TMS equivalents, such as gastrointestinal issues. In The Divided Mind Sarno branches out a bit more as well to talk about equivalents.
 
Thank you. I read more of the chapter and he goes on to talk about Fibromyalgia which many more places than postural muscles and also things like TMJ which is does say IS muscular... so he does expand on it more... so not sure why there is still the statement at the start saying it is all postural muscles.
 
dystonicrunner said:
Is this assertion still there because the book was written in 1998 and Sarno continued to evolve?
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That, plus the neuroscience also continued to evolve beyond where he was at when his final book was published in 2006(?) Remember that Dr Sarno was a clinician, not a researcher. Personally I did not pay much attention to most of his physiological pronouncements, because I didn't think that understanding them was necessary to my recovery as long as I understood and opened up to the emotional work.
dystonicrunner said:
so not sure why there is still the statement at the start saying it is all postural muscles.
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Perhaps because neither Dr Sarno nor his book are perfect?

This all feels like a skillful bit of distraction conceived by your TMS brain to unconsciously keep you from moving forward. Letting go of this kind of intellectual overanalysis might be one of your personal challenges. A mantra for you could be "Embrace the Imperfection!" Because believe me, when it comes to the human brain, which has barely or possibly not evolved beyond the initial emergence of homo sapiens, there is more than enough imperfection to go around.
 
I actually liked the aspect of muscles and "tension myositis" because I misunderstood it in a way that helped me.
I thought that Tension Myositis was about that there are hidden emotions, primarily anger at the deepest level, which cause us to unknowingly tighten muscles which then cause pain. I noticed some kind of tightness wherever the pain is but without doing the TMS work I can only release it for a few seconds and then it tightens back up again. I've been told this is all a complete misunderstanding of TMS and yet when I get to the deep hidden anger and focus on working through that rather than the pain then the muscles relax on their own and the pain disappears.
 
I had extreme muscle tension all over my body, its now only left in my hands and my feet but both of those are improving as the days goes on, my arms, hamstrings, quads and calves were all like solid rock, even my ankles as i could barely move it up and down.

It was ALL TMS due to a dysregulated nervous system due to long term chronic stress and anxety.
 
dystonicrunner said:
"As for muscle, the brain has chosen to target only what are known as postural muscles - the muscles of the neck, shoulders, and the entire back."
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Later when he posts his own beliefs as opposed to his clinical experience , he says he belives it can go after virtually any muscle or system in the body.
Keep in mind, he was an Orthopedic Dr.. People came to him with Back Problems so that is what he mostly saw,....early in his career...the later in his writings you read, the broader his diagnoses became.
headaches, teeth, TMJ, RSI and whatever is fashionable nowadays...definitely non postural
 
Booble said:
I actually liked the aspect of muscles and "tension myositis" because I misunderstood it in a way that helped me.
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Right the tension in "TMS" is "psychological" tension and not physical, but I like you, I definitely have both and I don't think that there is anything wrong with identifying the muscle tension. I know I can hold tension in all sorts of muscles. I know sometimes I definitely hold it in my jaw (and this would be a common thing - grinding teeth - for even those not versed in TMS) and I need to remind myself to relax it! I can feel it in say, my TFL which is my left thigh and it is tensing sometimes as I sit, but if I catch it I can relax it! And then it goes back to being tense! But what will stop it from happening in the first place is working on that mind tension.
 
Fal said:
I had extreme muscle tension all over my body, its now only left in my hands and my feet but both of those are improving as the days goes on, my arms, hamstrings, quads and calves were all like solid rock, even my ankles as i could barely move it up and down.

It was ALL TMS due to a dysregulated nervous system due to long term chronic stress and anxety.
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My left thigh is currently a solid rock! My neuro would say it's dystonia, but it doesn't even act the way my other dystonic muscles do. Really trying to apply TMS to all the things I experience including what is pegged as dystonia. I am glad it has lessened so much for you!
 
Hey, @dystonicrunner
Have you read Hope and Help for Your Nerves, by Claire Weekes? If not, I highly recommend it for you as the missing piece. Yes, inner rage causes tension, and you have to do emotional work to release it. But anxiety also causes tension. Everyone with TMS has anxiety. This book by Dr. Weekes explains the physiology of nervous illness. As you read the book, realize that your unique symptoms are caused partly by adrenaline. You will need to calm your nervous system. This book explains how. It’s a really important book! You can also get it on YouTube for free.
 
dystonicrunner said:
Do you mean the muscle tension or the psychological tension?
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Anxiety causes the release of adrenaline, which causes muscle tension and a whole bunch of other physical things. The Claire Weekes book explains it really well. When your nervous system gets sensitized, it’s like your whole body goes off the rails. Prolonged stress causes sensitization and it takes a while to calm yourself and turn the adrenaline off. Inner rage also causes anxiety— which adds to the adrenaline too. So yes, they both caused tension, both physical and emotional. Anxiety can cause dystonia. Some people think they don’t have anxiety, when actually they have a ton of it. Basically everyone with TMS has anxiety— TMS is a form of anxiety.

 
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Thank you. I have heard about her and intending to listen.

No, I am fully aware I have anxiety and have been meeting full criteria for Generalized Anxiety Disorder since at least when I was in college. I'm a Psychiatric Nurse Practitioner. :joyful: Is that the laughing emoji? I need one there I am cry laughing because it's so silly. I'm super aware of my anxiety. I've always have what I call "bread and butter" depression and anxiety, like 50% of America, where I was functioning and was never severe. Of course that has ramped up this past year.

Notably when all this first started happening (dystonia) and all the tests for anything wrong with me were negative I was like ""Paging Dr. Freud! I have Conversion Disorder!" This is now called Functional Neurological Disorder (FND) and is medicalized and I feel has gotten away from what Freud intended -- which actually really is much more in line with TMS.

Early on, I tried to say to my doctors a few times that I have FND but they were like no you don't because you have real symptoms - ie, you ankle contracts when you don't mean it to. I think they think FND is like a hyperchondriasis where you believe you have something, but you don't, which it is not, people with FND have real symptoms. But anyway, I don't think I have FND anymore, because I know I have TMS.
 
I’m not familiar with conversion disorder. Is that when young women were unable to walk due to suppressed psychological issues? I was fascinated to hear about that. This current medical world tries to find answers to mental issues— And they have nothing. So they make you doubt you have something that can be healed with your own efforts. That’s great you have the background to help yourself! And it sounds like you’re really aware of everything.

I wanted to mention that I had never heard of runners dystonia until I started reading your posts. And I had an epiphany. First of all, I have symptoms of dystonia right now. Pretty scary, I admit, if you didn’t know about TMS. Thirty years ago, I started getting tingling on the bottom on my right foot. Doctors couldn’t find a single reason why. But at the same time, I wasn’t able to run. It’s like my body was locked up and disjointed in a weird way. I never could understand what was happening with it. Now I have a much more severe version of that 30 years later— And time proves how valid this is to be TMS. The symptoms just keep recirculating until you address the underlying causes— and learn how to manage yourself to heal and prevent TMS.

You’re going to love Claire Weekes! She’s a life changer.
 
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Diana-M said:
I’m not familiar with conversion disorder. Is that when young women were unable to walk due to suppressed psychological issues?
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Sounds like me right? Except it's a middle aged woman who is unable to walk over here! :-)

Yes - paralysis and blindness and things like a full arm that would not work. It was seen as "Hysteria" where it was a crazy theory that the uterus wanders around in women and creates hysterical symptoms. For conversation disorder because the internet says it better than me:

"Our current understanding of conversion disorder dates back to late 19th-century Paris. At that time, Sigmund Freud was studying neurology with Jean-Martin Charcot and became intrigued with the connection between the mind and body, particularly in women who displayed unusual neurologic symptoms. Many of these women were subsequently diagnosed with hysteria. Freud coined the term "conversion" based on his understanding that these individuals converted a psychological conflict or trauma into a physical symptom. Indeed, it was Freud's study of these patients that led him to develop his initial theories of psychoanalysis."

Diana-M said:
I wanted to mention that I had never heard of runners dystonia until I started reading your posts. And I had an epiphany. First of all, I have symptoms of dystonia right now. Pretty scary, I admit, if you didn’t know about TMS. Thirty years ago, I started getting tingling on the bottom on my right foot. Doctors couldn’t find a single reason why. But at the same time, I wasn’t able to run. It’s like my body was locked up and disjointed in a weird way. I never could understand what was happening with it.
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Sounds like 30 year ago if Runner's Dystonia or focal dystonia had been a diagnosis that was more common you would have gotten that diagnosis. It is getting more common by the second I'll tell you that - the internet says it's rare but I've already met 2 other people in a 30 minute drive from me who have it just from a single Facebook group.

And yes it was... well IS completely terrifying and I am sure you can imagine the depth of despair I have been in for the past year +. I only found TMS recently and holding on to other's experiences of dystonia here and that that is the TRUE diagnosis/cause. Because my neurologist and physio are not on board with that I'll tell you.
 
dystonicrunner said:
And yes it was... well IS completely terrifying and I am sure you can imagine the depth of despair I have been in for the past year +. I only found TMS recently and holding on to other's experiences of dystonia here and that that is the TRUE diagnosis/cause. Because my neurologist and physio are not on board with that I'll tell you.
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This is the challenge! Getting more comfortable with believing in TMS— cause we’re going counterculture. And the reason we’re going counterculture is because the medical world refuses to acknowledge that the brain plays a big part in our physical symptoms. If you stop and think about that, that’s pretty crazy that doctors are willing to ignore the biggest part of your nervous system— your brain. We all recognize blushing when we’re nervous. How does that happen? Why can’t your brain shut down walking if it’s upset about something? The problem is, by the time it shuts down running and walking, it’s pretty pissed off! So, now there’s a big mess to clean up and it’s gonna take some time. I’m not ashamed to say that I get up every morning and the first thing I do is get on the forum. I just need that comfort of knowing that I’m not the only one. I also say this to myself more than once a day: Anyone who does the work gets better; it’s just a matter of time.

I know you will get better! I believe. let’s do it!
 
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