(peri)menopause) and TMS????

[Bhamgirl]

Hi Everyone,

I was hoping I could get some feedback, especially from the wonderful women on here. I have been off the forums for some time now, but I recently started having a flare of lower back/SI joint pain. I have periodically dealt with similar issues for the last several decades and have always worked through the pain with the help of Sarno, Schubiner, this forum, and others. This time, I seem to be having more doubts as to the TMS diagnosis given my age (44yo) and the distinct possibility that I am in perimenopause.

It seems as though menopause and women's health in finally getting the attention it deserves, but with that, comes the fear of all the damning symptoms (according to the docs) of this time in a woman's life. One of those symptoms is joint and muscle pain. Knowing this (and being a PA who has too much medical knowledge), I am having more difficulty believing that this current bout of pain is TMS. Despite scoring high on FIT tests and most everything pointing to this being neuroplastic pain, my brain just won't shut up that this is different. This is hormonal.

I would love to hear from anyone lovely lady who has been or is in this stage of life as well. Of course, I welcome all men who are brave enough to venture in to this topic . Thank you!!

 

[Cactusflower]

We have had a few threads in the last few years (and weeks) that deal with similar topics.

#1 - peri-menopause signals the change from being "young" to aging. It may be an existential topic you need to dig into, and find out what aging means to you.

#2 - changes in hormonal levels. At one time, Dr. Sarno's theory was oxygen deprivation as a source of pain, but more recently, it's been found that the chemical changes in your body that are signaled by the brain can create inflammation and other chronic pain conditions and the nervous system reacts. I'm wondering if there is a co-relation there with TMS. Your mind has learned that certain signals are triggers to the nervous system and your TMS brain just reacts ... like old news coming to revisit, an old wiring habit. Pair this with thoughts in #1 about aging when you feel unwanted sensations (because let's face it, lots of the peri-menopause and menopause sensations are things we're told are "unwanted" like hot flashes, etc) and it's fertile TMS ground.

My big "TMS MOMENT" came after abdominal surgery for endometriosis threw me directly into menopause at an early age....mix that with a ton of emotions about parents with terminal illness/their own chronic pain conditions, and many more stressors and it was the "breaking point" although I have had TMS my whole life. The endo and surgery themselves were not contributing factors, it was events surrounding them that were the catalyst.

 

[JanAtheCPA]

Hi @Bhamgirl, and welcome. I hope your return provides the support you need to turn around this setback.

I have one thing to add to all the good things from @Cactusflower, which is that when I entered perimenopause it was the mid 1990s, and I perused all of the info and advice out there - and I just do not recall joint pain being on the list of common symptoms. The only non-hormonal one I can think of now was probably migraines, or maybe just headaches in general.

With your TMS background, perhaps you are already aware that Dr Sarno observed how TMS symptoms seem to come into fashion for a while, only to be replaced by new ones. He said that before back pain became such a big deal in the 80s, it was ulcers in the 70s - which I distinctly remember. In the 00s things like RSI and carpal tunnel became "popular" but we didn't hear much about things like fibromyalgia until after 2010 or so.

In other words, I'm not inclined to place much significance on joint pain as hormonal. My belief lies in the Stress-Inflammation response that Cactus mentions.

Aging >> Stress >> Inflammation >> ... well, inflammation leads to all kinds of things. More and more, in fact, as "they" are discovering lately.

Go back to your TMS toolkit and mindfully examine your real relationship to aging and mortality, not what we are brainwashed into believing it "should" be. Pen and paper are a great place to start (as is the Structured Educational Program if you never did it).

 

[NewBeginning]

It definitely seems as though perceptions play such a strong role in all of this as @Cactusflower and @JanAtheCPA have mentioned.

Some fascinating aspects I've been reading about regarding menopause and the different aspects of how it is perceived in different cultures. Interestingly, perception -- shaped by cultural beliefs and expectations -- appears to influence not just the intensity, but also the type of symptoms reported.

• Japanese Women: Traditionally, Japan has placed a high value on aging and elder respect. Japanese women report fewer hot flashes and other vasomotor symptoms. Their language even frames menopause more neutrally: “konenki,” which translates roughly to "renewal years." (I love this and am going to start referring to this term when I talk about menopause)
  
  
• Mayan Women in Central America: Among Mayan women, menopause is seen as a liberation from childbearing and menstruation, leading to enhanced spiritual and social status. They report very few symptoms like hot flashes.
  
  
• Greek Rural Communities: Older women are often revered as matriarchs. Their transition into post-menopause is associated with wisdom and being the center of the household, leading to fewer reported difficulties.

At the same time, while it does appear there is at least some evidence that non-Western cultures may report more musculoskeletal pain or different psychological symptoms, even if hot flashes are less common, this reinforces the idea that culture and our perceptions shapes/reshapes how symptoms are experienced, expressed, and viewed - what they essentially mean to the person.

This seems like a powerful reminder of the effects we can have through exploring our perceptions, beliefs, thoughts, feelings, and overall narratives. It definitely makes me reflect on how all of this, which has been, of course, heavily influenced by my own culture, background, etc, shape my experiences of other life events, challenges, and even physical sensations. Interesting aspects to consider... especially with something that is as emotionally charged by strong, environmental and cultural influences, like menopause.

 

[Diana-M]

You know something interesting… as menopause approached, I just said to myself, I don’t want any of all the stuff everyone talks about. I refuse it. And it’s crazy, but I never did have any symptoms. Nothing. I’ve even done that with some TMS symptoms in the past. But unfortunately I haven’t been able to do it recently with my TMS. I do think women “expect” menopause to be hard. And so it is. All the pharmaceutical commercials don’t help, either.

 

[NewBeginning]

I do think women “expect” menopause to be hard. And so it is. All the pharmaceutical commercials don’t help, either.

THIS! So powerful. I never even thought a thing about it, and actually just believed I had sailed through as my mom did until the "perfect storm" last year of life events and people started highlighting menopause and the hormonal disruption as a factor and all of that = just spurred me deeper into distress and disruption. + Somehow the algorithm caught on and my subconscious is exposed to SO. MANY. ADS for pharmaceuticals now. Interesting how so much in day to day life affects how we perceive things.

 

[JanAtheCPA]

Their language even frames menopause more neutrally: “konenki,” which translates roughly to "renewal years." (I love this and am going to start referring to this term when I talk about menopause)

Love this, and awesome post overall, @NewBeginning

 

[JanAtheCPA]

my subconscious is exposed to SO. MANY. ADS for pharmaceuticals now. Interesting how so much in day to day life affects how we perceive things.

When I received my diagnosis of Rheumatoid Arthritis in 2020, the rheumatologist told me that I might start noticing all of the many TV and magazine ads for RA drugs. His advice was to ignore them, because I would be on a very basic super-low-dose old school chemo drug that works really well with few side effects (and is very cheap) and there was no reason to think it wouldn't work just fine for me. Which it still does. That's a different story, but it did remind me to appreciate that doc, now retired, who set me up to accept the tried-and-true option with equanimity.

 

[HealingMe]

You know something interesting… as menopause approached, I just said to myself, I don’t want any of all the stuff everyone talks about. I refuse it. And it’s crazy, but I never did have any symptoms. Nothing. I’ve even done that with some TMS symptoms in the past. But unfortunately I haven’t been able to do it recently with my TMS. I do think women “expect” menopause to be hard. And so it is. All the pharmaceutical commercials don’t help, either.

When I reach the age, I've decided this will be my approach. Hell, I've had so many weird symptoms without being in menopause that I feel like it would be just a regular day for me.

My mom hit menopause and never had any symptoms. She keeps busy.

I've noticed this trend on social media, regular media, highlighting perimenopause and how x symptom and y symptom is related to it. It's like this new trendy thing that boomed suddenly. I don't know. I'm just not buying into it.

 

[Bhamgirl]

Thank you so much, ladies! I have been slow to reply as I have had two uncles and my stepfather pass away in the last two weeks. It's been a rollercoaster for sure. I completely agree that the inundation of perimenopause/menopause information on social media and elsewhere has led to a fear of it. Both my mother and my sister entered medically induced menopause young as did my best friend (all BC diagnoses), so I have no real gauge for what to expect. However, I'm absolutely fascinated by what @NewBeginning said about other cultures. Can't wait to delve into that more just for funsies! Again, thank you all for your responses. I appreciate it so much!

 

[JanAtheCPA]

@Bhamgirl, I'm so sad for you and your family, losing so many family members in such a short time. I mean, it's part of life and all that - but damn, that's a lot. Aging and mortality in a quadruple-whammy. Be sure to find time to be compassionate to yourself as well as others.

 

[Bhamgirl]

When I received my diagnosis of Rheumatoid Arthritis in 2020, the rheumatologist told me that I might start noticing all of the many TV and magazine ads for RA drugs. His advice was to ignore them, because I would be on a very basic super-low-dose old school chemo drug that works really well with few side effects (and is very cheap) and there was no reason to think it wouldn't work just fine for me. Which it still does. That's a different story, but it did remind me to appreciate that doc, now retired, who set me up to accept the tried-and-true option with equanimity.

Jan, how have you handled the autoimmune diagnosis as well as TMS. I have followed your posts for years now, and you are always such an inspiration and have so much spunk I can't help but want to be your friend! Aside from the perimenopause questions, I have dealt with the "maybe some day" diagnoses a doctor gave me when I was 18 that one day I may develop Sjogren's, lupus, MS, etc etc. What a disservice this does to patients! I, as a PA, am VERY careful with my words and never want to doom them like he did to me. It was so easy for me to fall into this trap as I have multiple family members with AS, MS, lupus, etc. Then the idea of stress illness causing autoimmune conditions...my head goes a mile a minute. I've struggled so hard to overcome this doomsday mentality, but I always get caught up in the what ifs!

 

[JanAtheCPA]

Oops, I meant to respond to this days ago, @Bhamgirl - and you are very sweet, thank you!

You know, I talked about my RA diagnosis with Nicole Sachs a year ago - it was the June 7, 2024 episode - S3 E90 and I was pretty thrilled when she said I was "wearing it loosely" which is her signature phrase to indicate, essentially, living with acceptance. For some reason she added Migraines to the title episode (I had a PT during my "before Sarno" TMS crisis of 2011 who decided that I was a migraineur, which is only significant to the story of how I discovered Dr. Sarno later that day - and thus a complete non-issue). Nicole also says in our conversation that the RA medication might be a placebo for me - which is still something I wonder about, because at the time we recorded the episode, I was in the middle of an experiment (with my doc's permission) to reduce the dose a bit - and I had a return of the joint pain. My current rheumatologist actually says I'm "in remission with medication" which I didn't even know was a thing. In any case, it's a low dose of methotrexate with zero side effects, and I know that people can be on it for decades without apparent consequences, so I'm just not concerned. Wearing it loosely!

 

[Bhamgirl]

Oops, I meant to respond to this days ago, @Bhamgirl - and you are very sweet, thank you!

You know, I talked about my RA diagnosis with Nicole Sachs a year ago - it was the June 7, 2024 episode - S3 E90 and I was pretty thrilled when she said I was "wearing it loosely" which is her signature phrase to indicate, essentially, living with acceptance. For some reason she added Migraines to the title episode (I had a PT during my "before Sarno" TMS crisis of 2011 who decided that I was a migraineur, which is only significant to the story of how I discovered Dr. Sarno later that day - and thus a complete non-issue). Nicole also says in our conversation that the RA medication might be a placebo for me - which is still something I wonder about, because at the time we recorded the episode, I was in the middle of an experiment (with my doc's permission) to reduce the dose a bit - and I had a return of the joint pain. My current rheumatologist actually says I'm "in remission with medication" which I didn't even know was a thing. In any case, it's a low dose of methotrexate with zero side effects, and I know that people can be on it for decades without apparent consequences, so I'm just not concerned. Wearing it loosely!

"WEAR IT LOOSELY". Found my new mantra!