Discussion in 'General Discussion Subforum' started by miquelb3, Feb 27, 2018.
great stuff !
http://activelifescientific.org/videos/ (Videos – activelifescientific.org)
Interesting how much Paul Hansma's learning as a way to turn off sensitisation correlates with John Sarno's directive to "think psychological" not "physical". Some of what Hansma says seems to draw on the findings of neuroscience to confirm what Sarno says about TMS. Sounds like Sarno is finally being given a sound scientific basis. I just wonder what the naysayers will say to refute what Paul Hansma says here? Obviously, the worst thing you can do if you have chronic pain in your back caused by sensitization in your brain is go out and get back surgery. Completely self-defeating.
quoting Paul Hansma:
Note, there are four other names for what I have called Sensitization:
1. Tension myositis syndrome (TMS), also known as TensionMyoneural Syndrome (TMS), which is used in the video by Dr. Schubiner, who was trained directly by John Sarno.
2. Mind Body Syndrome (MBS), as used in the name of Dr. David Schechter’s informative website http://www.mindbodymedicine.com/ (MindBody Medicine TMS Pain treatment inspired Sarno) that has links to great videos including an interview of Dr. Schechter on Between the Lines.
3. Psychophysiologic Disorder (PPD), which is used in another great video by Alan Gordon who eloquently talks about ways to come to an understanding that it is important to work on the brain problem of chronic pain.
4. Chronification, which is used by the Apkarian research group, which has done stellar work in brain imaging of chronic pain. The placement of the lights inside the glowing brain in my videos comes, in part, from this group’s work.
1,2,3 approach to overcoming chronic pain
1. Watch How to overcome chronic pain, Mind Body Syndrome/Tension Myositis Syndrome and a 20/20 news program.
2. Read at least three from this list: Unlearn Your Pain, Chapter One of The Brain’s Way of Healing, Science Behind Methods for Retraining your Brain away from Chronic Pain, Healing Back Pain, The Mind-Body Prescription, The Divided Mind
3. Practice warming your hands to 95 degrees three times a day for three weeks thus developing the power of your mind to take control of undesirable brain activity that causes stress and chronic pain. You can use a stand-alone thermometer, or a wireless one that sends the temperature to your cell phone. (If you do use this very inexpensive bluetooth thermometer, go to the Apple or Android store and download the app “Temp Sitter”, which will display the temperature). You may find that it is easy for you to warm your hands by just holding the probe between your fingers or the device between your hand and leg or table, relaxing your hands and arms, and saying phrases like: “My arms and legs are heavy and warm”. “My heartbeat is calm and regular”. If you want more help you can find it here.
Everyone I have met with chronic pain believes that their pain is due to a problem in the body. But there is no way of knowing if this is the case because of sensitization. And as long as the focus of therapy is on the “problem in the body”, recovery is hopeless because of sensitization.
For all but one person whom I have met that has reduced sensitization, it has turned out that there was no significant underlying body problem anymore. Their bodies had healed, but the pain had continued due to sensitization in the same or nearby location to where it had begun, leading to the confusion. This includes cases of diagnosed long term chronic pain from shingles, from sciatica, from bursitis, and from a galaxy of “abnormalities” seen in X-rays, especially of the lower back. The one exception was from diabetic neuropathy.
Once you have retrained your brain to return your sensitization to normal, your chronic pain will be gone or greatly reduced. Any remaining signals coming from the body, such as from an incurable disease like diabetic neuropathy, can then be dealt with by retraining your brain to make better choices about what is in your conscious awareness (distraction) and by reducing the unpleasantness associated with the signals coming from the body with meditation and with affirmations. A very useful affirmation is: “I feel that. It’s of no importance”
I do notice that all of my chronic pain symptoms seem to be located on my left side in the lower lumbar region and foot that I shattered in a climbing fall in 1990. Went away and came back as a so-called 'herniated disk' shortly after my mother died and almost exactly when I inherit her and dad's old house. Sure seems like the sensitization that triggered lower lumbar pain and sciatica in my left leg and foot was due to the trauma associated with my mother's death. Of course, I went the physical route and worked and worked at PT. Seemed to go away, but then came back 7 or 8 years later at about the same time our family doctor died (the one who I had collaborated with while I care for my mother with dementia for five years prior to her passing in January 2001). Seems like 'sensitization' persists in some areas of the brain just waiting for an emotional triggering event to reanimate the chronic pain. I can see though how focusing on the psychological and ignoring the physical could help with desensitization. Of course, isn't it always going to be lurking there in the neurons that have learned to fire together?
Hi Mique, mbo, Gigalos, Bruce,
Wonderful (and brief) video that really resonates with me. I have been reading a couple of books by Norman Doidge, most recently his newest book "The Brains Way of Healing....." and have begun, in earnest applying cognitive soothing (ala Alan Gorden's recovery lessons). Very encouraging. Pain is lessening. I visualize a pleasant thought and see this picture in my mind relaxing my brain and washing through my body.
Interestingly, today I went for some body work with a skilled massage, body worker. She knows a variety of hands on techniques that help with some of my issues. Today, while she was doing a bit of tension release work in my leg that seems to knot up and create much discomfort, I was simultaneously doing my pleasant thoughts toward my brain. She noticed a physical release in my knotted muscle/tendon that she was focusing on, I noticed a lessening of pain. She did not know I was doing these thought images at this time. It was a pleasant and encouraging surprise for me.
I think lots of good work is now being done in helping people learn that they can control many aspects of their brain activity and ultimately learn to create healing in themselves.
Thanks for posting Mique
I've noticed that a acupuncturist skilled in TCM can access internal mental states while needling pressure points. You can work with an acupuncturist like that by focusing on the thoughts the come up during the session. You have to find someone who is really intuitive and who you can work with though.
About 18 years ago I began work with an acupuncturist. She was soothing, kind, gentle, intuitive and skilled in her trade. I am not so sure that the acupuncture was the cure, but I did love her for her presence with me. I went to her for over five years and really only had minimal improvements. Why I stuck it out, I do not know, but probably because she was who she was, not the acupuncture. Luckily (for my budget) she moved back to her childhood home in the San Francisco area. I tried another, acupuncturist a few years later but was not convinced that she was doing any good, so stopped the treatments.
I think, like the studies are saying now, that acupuncture, chiro and many other body treatments are curative only in-as-much as the practitioner is able to offer the patient/client a caring and helpful presence. If they work, so be it. Be happy about this. I know quite a bit about mind body treatments in that I trained in a number of protocols myself. I believe in the power of our minds as a healing, if not the only, healing element. We are so interconnected through our thoughts. Many people do not dare allow their minds to go to this realm of connective thought. It can be scary, but it can be very rewarding as well.
My work with the masseuse was an intuitive call to me, in that the benefit from the soothing touch would allow my mind to relax and open to all of the possibilities of healing. I have privately worked through much of my emotional traumas and found comfort in the understanding of the why's of my TMS but still wanted the connection with a caring and connected person. I am still processing, probably always will find elements of my past to process, and still working with some pain, but my overall state of mind and being is greatly improved. The time I spend with the masseuse adds to my self-soothing and offers some body soothing as well. I will most likely not return to an acupuncturist, but understand that what works for someone else is as valid as what works for me or anyone else.
Yes, I agree with that. I've never gained anything but temporary relief from TMS aches and pains via acupuncture. However, when done in conjunction with TCM (Traditional Chinese Medicine), acupuncture can take you to interior spaces you've never explored before. Sometimes it's like an embryonic journey back to the original creation. May not change you much, but you sure see a lot along the way.
I notice that the Apkarian Research Group at Northwestern University publishes papers like these on brain imaging and neuropathic pain in rats:
Brain activity for tactile allodynia: a longitudinal awake rat functional magnetic resonance imaging study tracking emergence of neuropathic pain. Chang PC, Centeno MV, Procissi D, Baria A, Apkarian AV. Pain - March 2017
Brain white matter changes associated with urological chronic pelvic pain syndrome: multisite neuroimaging from a MAPP case-control study. Huang L, Kutch JJ, Ellingson BM, Martucci KT, Harris RE, Clauw DJ, Mackey S, Mayer EA, Schaeffer AJ, Apkarian AV, Farmer MA. Pain - Dec 2016
Sounds like what Herbert Benson was up to when he stimulated the hypothalamus of groups of rats to activate hypertension. I think the kind of work that the Apkarian Research Group is doing is exactly the kind of confirmation of his TMS theories that Dr Sarno speculated would take place at some point. Interesting stuff!
I tried to raise my hand temp the way Paul suggested and couldn't do it. Temp was only up to 88.0 F. But this is what I did do....I put my headphones on and listened, sang and danced a little to my favorite tunes (glad my husband was out this morning). I used music, imagery and the biofeedback). I held the meat thermometer in my hand and it went up to 95.6 F. Pain level went down from about a 7 to a 3. Interesting. Sure it wouldn't work for Lady Gaga because it's work for her.
Have you checked out a couple of the other modalities Paul Hansma recommends? Specifically, Qigong and Tai Chi? I believe that coordinated hand movement he leads the group in is a form of Qigong. I know a TCM doctor in Mexico who swears by Tai Chi for osteoarthritic types of pain. Think Tai Chi is one of the basics in the TCM tool kit.
I just ran across this video and was wondering how what Dr Sletten from the Mayo Clinic in Florida says about Central Sensitization Syndrome (CSS) either contradicts or compliments what Prof. Hansma and Dr. Sarno have to say about the origins of chronic pain?
Can what Dr Sletten says be reconciled with TMS theory, which relies on repressed emotions and traumatic life events? Sounds like CSS according to Sletten is pretty mechanical with the emotions only playing a secondary role. Don't think Howard Schubiner would agree with this either since it seems to deliberately ignore the original causes for that intensification of sensory inputs. Not much in this either about neurons firing together and wiring together to create self-perpetuating pain pathways. Sounds like patients do improve if they do those four things Dr Sletten advocates, but does he achieve real complete cessation of symptoms through knowledge like Dr Sarno did? Or is Dr Sletten's methodology really just a way to make the best of a bad situation? Dunno. You be the judge.
I haven't heard any patients raving about his model. Amazon.com re: HBP has over 2,000 positive reviews. Explain to me how folks get better by just reading Sarno's book, or going thru Unlearn Your Pain by Schubiner, SteveO,or the SEP by Alan Gordon. Watch Juliet Archdale on Youtube after reading 10 pages of HBP. Tell that to Howard Stern and John Stossel with YEARS of chronic pain. OMG don't tell that to SteveO. For Dr. Sletten to tell people emotions (fear included) doesn't have anything to do with it ? Tell that to Dr's Arlene Feinblatt, Sherman, Sommer-Anderson who spent their entire professional careers working with Sarno. Mayo is being forced to come up with something to attribute to chronic pain because they haven't. Dr. Sarno said if you don't accept the fact that it's a psychological problem causing real physical symptoms we are basically doomed to a life of chronic pain. Next Mayo will be cutting out part of your brain they attribute to pain. My very 1st episode of TMS was 32 years ago...I suffered for months and went to Mayo and they couldn't tell me anything after MRI's, EMG, SEP and hundreds of labs tests. Sorry Bruce.....Sarno is right.
Yes, it does sound to me like Dr Sletten and the Mayo method is deliberately constructed to avoid admitting the psychological origins of chronic pain. In a word, a great big evasion designed to perpetuate a mechanical diagnosis compatible with what they teach in the medical schools. It sounds to me as if you read a few self-help books and went to an aerobic class or two or three, you'd get some positive results too. I don't think he's too successful at explaining how and why patients get sensitized either. Is it just part of the human condition and occurs randomly? I'd rather doubt it especially when you note how chronic pain symptoms often follow soon after one of the Holmes-Rahe life stress events. Ignores the role of perfectionist and goodist personality traits too.
Anybody else want to chime in? I just thought it might prove expeditious to indicate there are other views of chronic pain kicking around out there, some flawed and some ridiculous. For example, the big honcho doctor at the Stanford pain clinic who believes that fibromyalgia is caused by a virus. They haven't found it yet, but he's certain they will soon.
Thank you Miquel,
“Sensitization” is a new word for me. I liked Paul Hansma’s model and presentation. To me it did not conflict with Dr Sarno, and offered another way for us to comprehend lingering, chronic and unexplained pain. I am assuming we all agree with the “Pain is in the Brain statement”.
Dr. Sletten’s presentation however shocked me when he commented: “that NONE of this sensitization was contributed to the psychological . I was really surprised further when he conflicted with own presentation by listing four areas:
To me our Emotions and Behavior are purely psychological driven. Being a nick-picker and analyzing further, I looked to see where the message is coming from. Dr Sletten’s presentation is targeted towards the public pain sufferers and those who might attend his Mayo clinic. I understand his statement would be justified because the last thing one wants to hear when in pain is that it’s “psychological”. I think he could have gone into more detail how society, medical dogma and life styles gets us into pain. A person needs to know they are not at fault or flawed.
Miquel, without knowing it I have been accomplishing bio feed-back for years with a whole range of “Getting to Sleep Tricks”. They work a little differently to what you describe, but tie in very nicely. They range from is walking on a dewy grass to lifting 10 lb weights. I call this activity: “Changing my mode”. I sleep well.
Great discussion folks
I just don't understand what mechanism or cause results in the "upregulation" of "sensory inputs"? Once they're like that, Dr. Sletten seems to suggest, they just remain in that "unregulated" condition indefinitely until you alter the pain patient's chemical, emotional, behavioral, or physical circumstances.
Andy do you really mean that our emotions and behavior are "psychologically driven"? That seems to be what you mean?
Yes, damn word spell check. I did fix it ASAP. sorry.
Separate names with a comma.