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Parents of small children?

Discussion in 'General Discussion Subforum' started by Pandagirl, Nov 11, 2013.

  1. Pandagirl

    Pandagirl Peer Supporter

    How many among us are parents to small children? Or had the onsite of TMS after becoming parents?

    I have two children, almost 3 yrs and 1 yr. My TMS began shortly after the birth of my first child. Talk about nervous system overload! Sleep deprivation, baby crying, bewilderment, etc. At one point I would have physical pain when I heard her cry over the baby monitor. Like a knife cutting through my body. I was so confused as to why this was happening to me. I was supposed to be overyjoyed with motherhood, but instead I was desperate for sleep, peace, a quiet meal, anything!

    I was a stay at home mom with a husband who traveled, so there was no break. The only time I had a babysitter was when I went to the gym and plugged away on the machines. Not very relaxing. And since this was my job, I couldn't exactly quit. :)

    So I'm curious if anyone else can relate...
  2. Steve Ozanich

    Steve Ozanich TMS Consultant

    Good job Pandalady, well over half of the people who have contacted me over the past 6 months have been girls/ladies who had just had babies. Those of you reading this who have contacted me, know that you can relate to her post.

    If I could dissect this posting into segments, she basically asked and answered the core elements of TMS. It is those responsibilities we place upon ourselves that create TMS. Is there any greater responsibility, than a mother and her baby? It's primal and natural. Most of the TMSers asking me for consultations now are new moms. Pandafem asked if anyone could relate? I can; I had a handicapped wife. I had a new responsibility thrown at me too.

    <<At one point I would have physical pain when I heard her cry over the baby monitor.>>
    Every time my wife had another physical problem from her handicap, I would go into spasm. It is the demands that cripple us, but only due to our perception of the moment. I spent a long time writing about ego and id and inner child and superego, and energy, etc., to try to show what I discovered, by fire, so that I could help people see what I saw (that's like a see-saw). TMS comes from that shadow-self inside all of us, that only wants to be safe, taken care of, and loved only for who we are--not to be taking care of anyone else. Freud's' Pleasure Principle.

    <<I was supposed to be overyjoyed with motherhood>>
    We were so excited to become parents, and when my wife was paralyzed after her delivery, it rocked our families to the core, even to this day. Babies are the entire world to the entire world, they are "us" continuing on, they are the reasons we get up in the morning, the reasons we breathe. Birth is a massive TMS trigger. Some ladies have told me they sat in their closets crying when they came home from the hospital. They were just happy little girls shortly before, now they have great responsibility. Those personalities who are more responsible, have more TMS problems after becoming moms. The worriers gets the warts, of TMS.

    <<I was so confused as to why this was happening to me.>>
    Not only for why your new life was so turned upside down, but also for why this is happening to ME <~~~~

    I enjoy the bright spirit of Pandamom, and her openness. It displays a beauty within the person to tell the truth, and to seek answers.

    Be well, and I guarantee you Pandawife, that you will be free of TMS when things slow down (or I'll return all the money you've given me for advice).

    Pandagirl and Forest like this.
  3. Solange

    Solange Well known member

    Hi Pandagirl, I absolutely understand this. I had my son shortly after we moved to a new city(one I didn't want to go to) so I had no network of friends or family to fall back on. I have never felt so lonely in all my life and overwhelmed too. At the same time, I had a very difficult parent to deal with, relationship difficulties etc. My son was very difficult to manage and did not seem to do what other babies his age did which left me baffled and frustrated at my inability to handle him as I wanted(turns out he has Asperger's syndrome) and left me feeling a failure. I had a horrendous birth experience with him and of course attributed my subsequent back pain to that. In short, adding all this to previous events in my life, it was almost inevitable that I would suffer from TMS. I learned about TMS in spring this year and have been slowly progressing but given that my son is 10 now, I had many years of fruitlessly seeking a physical resolution to my problem and a huge amount of conditioning to overcome. It's tough and I think that if I'd learned about all this earlier, I would have progressed more quickly as I would have had fewer conditioned responses to get past. At least I know about it all now and I'm just progressing as I can and trying not to put pressure on myself by calendar watching. I really hope you too see progress to encourage you. The good days give us hope and strength to get through the bad ones.
    Pandagirl likes this.
  4. Jill Pensom

    Jill Pensom New Member

    Hi all,
    I have a four week old newborn and a three year old toddler and can totally relate to you Pandagirl!
    I completed the structured programme and read Sarno etc in early pregnancy this year due to ongoing back/nerve leg pain which started in the pregnancy of my first child (IVF pregnancy). My symtoms disappeared during pregnancy and I felt great both physically and mentally. I had a quick labour with no pain relief. However my symptoms have now returned with avengence. I find myself going down the old thought patterns and associating certain routines/ baby things with the pain I felt last time round (when TMS was at its worst).
    One thing that confuses me though is how do I know for sure whether I am feeling post-natal back pain etc or true TMS? Friends keep telling me to watch my back due to softening ligaments etc but I feel the confuses Sarno's teachings?
    Take care,
    Jill x
  5. Steve Ozanich

    Steve Ozanich TMS Consultant

    Who was the lady on here who visited Dr. Sarno with post-natal tailbone pain? She told the good doctor that her doc told her that she dislocated her tailbone during delivery and would have to live with it? Is that correct? Then Dr. Sarno said, "nonsense!..the body heals!" And of course she healed.

    Don't pay attention to friends telling you about "softening ligaments." That's crazy talk, but that's what good friends are for!

    If you had some type of small injury during delivery then it will heal quickly. TMS can however piggyback on anything to make you obsess. The best thing is to see a TMS doc. But if you can't, then you self-diagnose.

    Ladies with post delivery pain heal. If it lingers then you know there's a driving force beyond the body-structure.

  6. Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)

    Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021) Beloved Grand Eagle

    Since I never married or had children or put any woman in a family way, I can't offer any advice
    on the symptoms here. But I congratulate you mothers on going through the childbirth adventure.
    I'm sure that every time you look at your baby or hold it, you feel it was worth all the pain. Bless you.
  7. North Star

    North Star Beloved Grand Eagle

    Pandagirl, my babies are young adults now but I can CLEARLY recall TMS first knocking on my door. Oh, it was sneaking around before this defining moment but it really announced itself with I was in my final trimester with my first baby....the leg cramp from hell woke me up in the middle of the night. I believe the knot that it caused was the basis for the debilitating shin splints that I dealt with for over 10 years. I wish I had known then what I know now! I've been pretty much free of that shin splint pain for about 3 months now.

    To make things more fun, we added two more babies in 2 1/2 years. Then my oldest was diagnosed with a host of autism-spectrum issues. Let the fun begin. NOT.

    No wonder I had so much pain. There was very little support of any kind during those years....financial stress of a business...GAH! I could go on. I homeschooled for most of their schooling too. (Because of my oldest's issues, school would have been a disaster.) I also struggled mightily with depression when my kids were toddlers. (And yes, I think that was before the chronic pain set in.)

    So all this to say, I am SO glad you're aware of TMS! Parenting is hard enough without playing whack-a-mole with pain and doctor visits on top of it all.
  8. tarala

    tarala Well known member

    I think I have bits of every post on this thread. I had "gall bladder problems" after my first child, who was born just after we moved to England, and knew absolutely no one. She (who later turned out to be Aspergers) cried day and night, and I was a wreck. Pain went away, then 2 1/2 years later my son was born and within weeks I had severe shoulder pain, which meant I couldn't even pick him up. I was not finding motherhood rewarding or fulfilling in the slightest. Oh, to know then what I know now!

    Well, third time lucky, my last child was born in Australia (of course we hardly knew anyone there either :( ). I was under much more stress than with the first two, and I've had sciatic pain since he, also an Aspergers kid, was born 21 years ago. Since discovering TMS I have been much more pain free, but when emotional stress hits it flares up again. I go straight to physical pain rather than thinking psychologically. And I'm a psychologist :oops:. I still struggle with over-responsibility for my kids. By the way, Montana Mom, my three were all homeschooled too. But I am so grateful that now I have the tools to find my way back. Hugs to all you moms out there.
    MontanaMom likes this.
  9. Leonor

    Leonor Peer Supporter

    Hi Pandagirl,

    Before I was pregnant with my son I had a lot of back pain. When I became pregnant I decided to go to a rheumatologist. I told him all my story with the different doctors and showed him my x-rays. I had stopped going to the doctors a long time ago, kept working/studying and ignored the pain (which was there always), but became worried because of the pregnancy. The doctor looked at my history and told me I had fibromyalgia and to come back after the delivery. I was glad there was a diagnosis, after almost 10 years of back pain, so I started reading all about fibromyalgia. I was a single mother by choice, so I was alone. My mother came for the delivery and my sister was in the same city. When my mother came she was overwhelmed because she had to help me, and whenever she could she would go out with my sister. I called my sister and told her that she should stay away because my mom was there for my delivery. My mom stayed only 10 days after the delivery because she was worried about another sister that was having marital problems and left. All the while she was very lovely, happy and positive, like always. I remember being so scared when she left and I decided to be tough and just handle all by myself as usual (the way I grew up). I also wanted to be the perfect mom, to have the perfect son, the perfect mother/son relationship, and of course it did not happen. After the doctor told me about fibro I really got it. I got leg pain, hip pain, spams, tension headaches, stomach ache, depression, sadness etc. My son also woke me up three times a night for 6 years. At times I totally hated him, I would return him to his bed for some time, because again I wanted him to be independent and sleep alone (nonsense), instead of letting him sleep with me, which I did later (I was single anyway). I don't blame motherhood for my pain, it is the wrong idea that we have about life, the wrong diagnosis, and stupid unrealistic expectations. Yes, I got full blown fibro 8 years after my son was born, he is almost 12 now. I still worry a lot about my son, but now I let him be, he is active, alpha and crazy, but very affectionate. We do have a routine and reasonable rules but I don't worry about other people's expectations. I don't ever want him to not express his feeling, rages and emotions. Now I am happy I found Sarno, this group and happy to finally have found the right diagnose and healing.


  10. BruceMC

    BruceMC Beloved Grand Eagle

    "New Responsibilities"! Bet that's a reason for the onset of TMS symptoms that cuts across a huge swath of TMS patient histories. So, not just having a baby, but anything that punctuates one phase of life and initiates a new one with new responsibilities that the child-id is not so crazy about taking on.
  11. yb44

    yb44 Beloved Grand Eagle

    At a point where I wasn't confident that I had made the right life choices for myself and considered backtracking on some of these decisions, I fell pregnant with my elder child. That finalised my decision. I had to stick with what I had. No surprises that my back pain started in late pregnancy. Following a difficult birth I fell into a post natal depression that went undiagnosed and untreated. The migraines and stomach issues from my younger days carried on. With hindsight I see that I was torn between emotions. On the one hand I was ripping mad at myself and everyone around me because I felt trapped. I had no support from family as mine all lived abroad. My husband's lived 150 miles away and couldn't have been more unhelpful. On the other hand I felt so ashamed of myself because I had two beautiful healthy girls and all I could do was rant, rage and complain that I wasn't happy, that I couldn't cope. My migraines had become debilitating, life limiting.

    So be reassured it is natural to experience a mixture of emotions when we are raising children. They aren't all sweetness and light all of the time but neither are our inner children.
  12. njoy

    njoy aka Bugsy

    Steve said,
    This is SO true. I had two children 14 months apart and the first few years were, bar none, the worst experience of my life. I was 20 years old and had zero interest in staying home with babies when I felt I should be at school, working or out having fun. I loved them (how can you help it?) but I also hated them, and my life, and no, it was not all worth it when I held them. It was plain awful, to tell the truth.

    Of course, my feelings came from my own upbringing (no affection, raging, alcoholic parents) and I felt terrible about how I felt which only added to the stress. I couldn't change it, though, with no sleep, miserable pain, fighting with my husband who at least got away every day to go to work, etc.

    The reality is that child-rearing is really, really tough, especially so when you are unprepared and lacking support. I know, beyond a doubt, that I did the best I could but it was a million miles from good enough.

    If I had my way, I'd assign every mom on the planet a perfect childhood, healthy and cheerful babies, a saintly husband, a doula for the entire pregnancy, a loving mother, a caring mother-in-law, several rotating nannies, a team to keep the house clean and a minimum of two on-call therapists. That might do it. Oh yes, and enough money, a washer/dryer, a fun part-time job and tons of happy time to bond with, play with, sleep with, love up the babies and the husband, as well.

    About 36 hours a day (including at least 10 hours of uninterrupted sleep) should make the first couple of years a real pleasure or at least bearable.

    Later on, as life gets easier and we could probably let go half the staff. :rolleyes: ;)
    tarala and Pandagirl like this.
  13. North Star

    North Star Beloved Grand Eagle

    Njoy, I'd have more babies under your plan any day! Well, maybe not.;) But it does sound wonderful. It's tragic that what should be a wonderful experience...bringing a new life into the world...isn't for most folks. Our families were completely unsupportive...maybe even a bit satisfied at our perceived comeuppance. (This was actually confirmed a few months ago when my MIL said something to the effect that, "You guys said you'd be perfect parents so it was satisfying to me to see you struggle." We were BEYOND floored! (We would never had something so disrespectful!! And we sure as h*ll never thought we'd be perfect parents - we were scared spit-less!)

    I understand now more than ever why an older friend would always tell me, "I'm glad my baby's 23 (or whatever age they were)!
  14. njoy

    njoy aka Bugsy

    Lol, MontanaMom, I wouldn't even under my plan. Nothing would induce me. Yet I would adopt cheerfully adopt dozens of the little duffers, under the plan, of course, with suitable increases in staffing levels, adding a well paid CEO (not me, I might consider Chairman of the Board, though), at least two months paid holiday and an iron clad guarantee of no serious medical or mental health problems for ANY of us. Sigh. Am I being unreasonable? Maybe just a tad. :)

    I feel a lot of sympathy for teachers, too, btw. The ones who try to teach and be nice while they are at it.
  15. North Star

    North Star Beloved Grand Eagle

    Oh, yes...I'm loving your plan more and more, njoy! Especially the health guarantee! (With three teens at home, the mental health guarantee is especially shiny. hahaha)

    Oh, man. Teachers. You couldn't pay me enough to do their job! I have many teacher friends and their job just get tougher and tougher!
  16. Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)

    Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021) Beloved Grand Eagle

    Leonor, back to your post about going to a doctor about your back pain during pregnancy and being told that you had fibromyalgia and then you felt pain everywhere. Dr. Sarno says in Healing Back Pain that only a small percentage of fibromyalgia patients are properly diagnosed. After failing to find any laboratory abnormality, some doctors conclude that the disorder is "psychogenic." Your doctor did not suggest that, but if had known about TMS, he likely would have.

    Dr. Sarno says: "Though the diagnosis of fibromyalgia is being made with increasing frequency, the cause of the disorder is still said to be unknown. The patient is advised not to worry about it because it is not 'psychogenic' and not degenerative or deforming."

    He says: "For many years it has been clear to me that this disorder is one of the many variants of TMS. Therefore, through it is not degenerative or deforming, it certainly is psychogenic, for that is the overall term that covers a physical process that is induced by emotional factors." [Pregnancy certainly could be one of them.]

    "Psychogenic is what you call something if you can't figure out what it is. They (doctors) cannot conceive of the possibility that emotions can cause bodily changes."

    Dr. Sarno says a laboratory abnormality has been identified in this disorder and it is oxygen deprivation. A TMS-caused pain results from oxygen deprivation to the part of the body that hurts.

    "Fibromyalgia is TMS," asserts Dr. Sarno. "I have seen it and treated hundreds of people with these symptoms over the years. "

    Steve Ozanich concurs in The Great Pain Deception," saying "Dr. Sarno postulates that the pain is due to mild oxygen deprivation and he supports his clinical findings with rheumatology studies. He makes the case that decreased oxygen flow is the culprit by citing two separate studies, as well as his own clinical observations. He has shown that TMS pain, as well as fibromyalgia and many other modern pain labels, are caused by this autonomic constriction of the oxygen-carrying blood vessels. He has also shown that fibromyalgia is merely a more severe form of myoneuralgia and is synonymous with TMS."

    What do do about it and stop the pain? Steve says "The TMS pain is a deception by the brain -- an act of psychological subterfuge. Once in pain, the sufferer has no choice but to focus on his pain and away from his unconscious rage, along with the reason behind it. That is why Dr. Sarno believes TMS pain is a purposeful distraction created by the brain as a favor to the mindbody which enables the self to avoid having to think about darker, morbid, resentful, vengeful, and selfish thoughts."

    To summarize, Dr. Sarno and Steve Ozanich maintain that fibromyalgia is another symptom of TMS, caused by one or more repressed emotions.
  17. Leonor

    Leonor Peer Supporter

    [To summarize, Dr. Sarno and Steve Ozanich maintain that fibromyalgia is another symptom of TMS, caused by one or more repressed emotions.[/quote]

    Hi Walt,

    I did read Dr. Sarno's books and I agree that fibro is tms. I was just thinking back when I went to see the rheumatologist and did not have fibro but mainly backpain. My theory is that because fibro was the new diagnosis, actually since 1991 I think, the dr. decided that it fitted my medical history, but in reality at that moment I did not have fibro, just bad back pain. I always wondered what they meant with all those achey points around the body of a fibro patient. Later on when I read about it and became a new single mom I unconsciously, according to the previous diagnosis, became a so called "fibromyalgia" sufferer. Sarno also says that the unconscious repressed rage/emotions go with the flow of diseases in vogue. If I had known about tms than, I would have been able to just overcome my back pain sooner, but thanks to the medical establishment it got worse. I did learn transcendental meditation, relaxation thinking it could heal me, but I was barking the wrong tree. Now I only can look forward and be happy that I know what is going on, knowledge is power. ¡Si, así es!

  18. Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)

    Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021) Beloved Grand Eagle

    Hi, Lenor. It's wonderful that you thought all this out and know you didn't have fibromyalgia. It was the flavor of the year back then.
    I wish I had known about TMS a year ago. I would have healed faster from back pain. But now it's gone and I also apply TMS to everything except a hangnail. I also laugh off most things.

    I posted that about fibromyalgia as kind of a general thing, in case others could benefit from it. I'm glad you already knew it.
    Yes, knowledge is power.
  19. Lori

    Lori Well known member

    Yep, that would be me. I remember that conversation with Dr. Sarno so vividly.

    I had very bad tailbone and lower back pain after my son was born. And I also clearly remember being very AFRAID of taking care of a newborn! As my confidence grew, the pain went away. But it did take a couple months!
  20. Painfreefuture

    Painfreefuture Peer Supporter

    I am glad I came across this post, I felt so much better after reading it. I believe I have TMS. I have been dealing with debilitating back pain for 9 months now. My life is not what it was. I have a two year old and a four year old, whom I love dearly and adore. I have had anxiety my whole life, but only recently have been able to see that and admit to it. It seems to make sense now, how the initial trigger (bending over to change a diaper) spiraled into the most horrible experience of my life. The new pressures of motherhood, wanting to do everything perfect, and trying so hard not to make the same mistakes my mother made and on top of that a move and a decision to quit work and stay home. I have had a number of TMS issues throughout my life and I am convinced this is a new manifestation of an old friend. I'm so thankful I found this website and hope to conquer it. Thank you for sharing your story!
    Many blessings!

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