Outcome independence that will kill me

[Aaricia]

Hi everyone!

I’ve been trying for the last couple days outcome independence. I’m not sure if I got it right, but I decided that instead of staying home again I’ll go out and meet with friends and I’ll enjoy that.
So I did and I was sitting in a restaurant, driving long hours and today my back is very sore and tired. I don’t feel happy with the outcome for my last days approach. I try to live my life, don’t worry about my pain, shift my attention to psychological thinking and I was wondering if getting so much worse at the beginning is common.

Most of the time my lower back was sore but after practicing this “outcome independence” I feel it in my stiff shoulder and neck. I breathy can move my neck what didn’t happen for a long time?
Can I count it as symptom imperative?

Thanks for the support my friends!

 

[Baseball65]

Uhhh. I don't preach the outcome independence model, but wouldn't outcome independence mean that you ignore the outcome?

So you tried it and the outcome wasn't positive. Keep trying it. That's true outcome independence

When I first decided to test 'their' rules (don't run, don't sit, wear the brace,yada,yada) I did not get immediate relief. Sometimes it was worse. Sometimes it was the same. But over a couple of weeks it went away.

and YES. You can count it as symptom imperative. You will get better

 

[Aaricia]

Thanks @Baseball65 for the reply.
Preach me as much a you can! I really need some support in here.

Looks like I totally missed the idea of the outcome independence so I appreciate your reply.
I feel like I can’t trust my body any more. Last week I decided for some physical activity since December last year and I did Zumba class for 30 minutes. It felt great and later my back was so sore and painful. Same the next day. In Zumba you use your legs mostly and you don’t dance using your back. But I didn’t had even one sore muscle in my legs, not even tiny bit I always have after, so intense workout. Two months without any movement and my calf’s were not even sensitive after. Looks like my body decided to use whole pain energy it had and focused on my back. It was very wierd.

 

[Baseball65]

TMS has to be painful and scary to hold your attention. Being sore from working out is normal so it doesn't hold our attention. We don't have pain because of what we are doing.... it is tied into the very essence of our way of dealing with life. It's 'who we are'... so when It finally sinks in that this is just here to distract me from rage (all unconscious) about work, parenting, relationships, mortality, economics power and our spiritual condition.... Than it makes sense...and then the symptoms stop because they aren't getting your attention or scaring you anymore.

 

[KevinMartilloViner]

Hi everyone!

I’ve been trying for the last couple days outcome independence. I’m not sure if I got it right, but I decided that instead of staying home again I’ll go out and meet with friends and I’ll enjoy that.
So I did and I was sitting in a restaurant, driving long hours and today my back is very sore and tired. I don’t feel happy with the outcome for my last days approach. I try to live my life, don’t worry about my pain, shift my attention to psychological thinking and I was wondering if getting so much worse at the beginning is common.

Most of the time my lower back was sore but after practicing this “outcome independence” I feel it in my stiff shoulder and neck. I breathy can move my neck what didn’t happen for a long time?
Can I count it as symptom imperative?

Thanks for the support my friends!

Sorry to hear it. Check out this podcast interview, I talk a lot about what you're going through. Hope it helps!

https://audioboom.com/posts/7173184-057-kevin-martillo-viner-phd?fbclid=IwAR0vSXw6MfXJZx290rxvJTLrZiCdjTxsk-ItAbRQ9xOSNG68C_U-oCd5aHE (Audioboom / 057 - Kevin Martillo Viner, PhD)

 

[KevinMartilloViner]

TMS has to be painful and scary to hold your attention. Being sore from working out is normal so it doesn't hold our attention. We don't have pain because of what we are doing.... it is tied into the very essence of our way of dealing with life. It's 'who we are'... so when It finally sinks in that this is just here to distract me from rage (all unconscious) about work, parenting, relationships, mortality, economics power and our spiritual condition.... Than it makes sense...and then the symptoms stop because they aren't getting your attention or scaring you anymore.

Yes to what baseballs said, but I’d add that as TMSers, especially those with many relapses or long bouts of TMS, we develop what I’ve been calling a type of TMS PTSD - we can become so traumatized by the pain that later the slightest bodily discomfort can send us into panic mode. We are oversensitized and really become sort of hypochondriacs, to an extent. Take your example- you hadn’t been active in some time, do a 30 min exercise class, then are very worried about what’s going on in your body. A non-TMS PTSDer wouldn’t think twice about their body, they’d see it as a good thing from having worked out. This insight helped me tremendously in my recovery, I hope it speaks to you too.

With love,

Kevin

 

[srton]

I'm sending you so much support and the true belief that things are going to get better for you. As @Baseball65 said, we are all grappling with so much "stuff" and as TMS-ers we just have to retrain ourselves to grapple with it differently. The "stuff" is never going to go away, but we can train ourselves to defuse the bomb and treat it like it doesn't matter.
I hope you know that by introducing me to the various podcasts you REALLY HELPED my recovery. I have listened to both the Nicole Sachs and Kaitlin Martin ones over and over and over (like yesterday while I was in the supermarket!). I've been journaling and meditating.
It is working slowly but surely. You are a special person and you will heal - don't pressure or judge or rush yourself.
Having a toddler and being pregnant are very seriously emotional and insane times. Be gentle and kind to yourself and know that you're going to get better!!
I believe in you!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Aaricia]

Yes to what baseballs said, but I’d add that as TMSers, especially those with many relapses or long bouts of TMS, we develop what I’ve been calling a type of TMS PTSD - we can become so traumatized by the pain that later the slightest bodily discomfort can send us into panic mode. We are oversensitized and really become sort of hypochondriacs, to an extent. Take your example- you hadn’t been active in some time, do a 30 min exercise class, then are very worried about what’s going on in your body. A non-TMS PTSDer wouldn’t think twice about their body, they’d see it as a good thing from having worked out. This insight helped me tremendously in my recovery, I hope it speaks to you too.

With love,

Kevin

Thanks Kevin!
What a wise words... a non TMSer...
It’s so hard when the pain is there, I was a non TMSer before and the pain from being sore was so different than I’m experiencing now.
I miss those days when I was healthy. I just want to be normal again. I want my life back.
I feel like it’s always the same story. I’m doing something new to recover for example - I start meditate, the symptoms goes down and I feel better. After some time the pain comes back and I meditate more and it doesn’t help any more. I find new thing and the circle repeats.
Recently I stoped doing most of the stuff to heal. I became totall TMSer, I was panicking if I didn’t read 20 minutes of Sarno book, journal, meditate at some point working with TMS was taking 2 hours of my day. When I stoped the pain went down but I can feel it’s coming back. I’m just running out of ideas to deal with it.

I just want my life back...is that too much too ask for?

 

[Aaricia]

I'm sending you so much support and the true belief that things are going to get better for you. As @Baseball65 said, we are all grappling with so much "stuff" and as TMS-ers we just have to retrain ourselves to grapple with it differently. The "stuff" is never going to go away, but we can train ourselves to defuse the bomb and treat it like it doesn't matter.
I hope you know that by introducing me to the various podcasts you REALLY HELPED my recovery. I have listened to both the Nicole Sachs and Kaitlin Martin ones over and over and over (like yesterday while I was in the supermarket!). I've been journaling and meditating.
It is working slowly but surely. You are a special person and you will heal - don't pressure or judge or rush yourself.
Having a toddler and being pregnant are very seriously emotional and insane times. Be gentle and kind to yourself and know that you're going to get better!!
I believe in you!!!!!!!!!!

Oh srton, I’m really in the dark place now. I just feel like it will never go away and I even stoped coming to the forum because I lost hopes...
Thank you for your words. They mean a lot to me and they comes to me in perfect moment. I’ll try my best and hold on as strong as I can. I’m glad the podcasts helps you.
Thank you for believing in me. I really need this now.

 

[KevinMartilloViner]

Thanks Kevin!
What a wise words... a non TMSer...
It’s so hard when the pain is there, I was a non TMSer before and the pain from being sore was so different than I’m experiencing now.
I miss those days when I was healthy. I just want to be normal again. I want my life back.
I feel like it’s always the same story. I’m doing something new to recover for example - I start meditate, the symptoms goes down and I feel better. After some time the pain comes back and I meditate more and it doesn’t help any more. I find new thing and the circle repeats.
Recently I stoped doing most of the stuff to heal. I became totall TMSer, I was panicking if I didn’t read 20 minutes of Sarno book, journal, meditate at some point working with TMS was taking 2 hours of my day. When I stoped the pain went down but I can feel it’s coming back. I’m just running out of ideas to deal with it.

I just want my life back...is that too much too ask for?

Did you get around to listening to the podcast I posted above? That may give some help. If you’re still struggling, have a look at my website, maybe something there will help.

https://kevinmviner.wixsite.com/tmscoach (TMS Coach)

 

[Aaricia]

Hi Kevin,

I did! Actually Eddie lives in Edmonds, WA which is few miles away form me.
I even got more scared because you mentioned that you were working with TMS therapist for a year and it wasn't enough. I've been working with the TMS specialist since last month and I still have symptoms. I was better initially but again I'm deep down. I need to say that I'm more calm about the symptoms and I don't have as many dark thoughts now. But still I'm very uncomfortable.
Lately even I hear characteristic clicking form inflammation in my whole back. Not to mention, I'm seven moths pregnant with my second child. I have no idea how this poor kid will struggle thorough life after the prenatal experience that I'm serving him now: growing in a pool of those stressful and inflammations hormones.
thanks Kevin for checking in with me! please direct me what should be my next step.


ps, here is a link to proper pronunciation of Gwozdz (which is a Polish word for nail), if you wanna impress him -
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/gw%C3%B3%C5%BAd%C5%BA (gwóźdź - Wiktionary)