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Nothing is working

P

patrickj

Well known member
I’ve tried

Journaling (currently on a 20 day running streak)
Curable podcasts
Meditation
Reading Sarno and other books

no improvement.
Every day my back/sides and neck are very sore and it gives me headaches and chronic fatigue.

Docs reckon it’s Fibro. I reckon it’s TMS. But I must admit, I’m losing faith in TMS because none of the treatments are working.
 
Sorry to hear. I can relate. I have symptoms that my doctor calls Fibro. I try to ignore that term but it’s not easy.

I played sports in HS and college. I had plenty of injuries but never worried about them.

This diffuse, aching, burning pain is something totally different though. It’s just impossible to ignore.

I have had stretches where I barely noticed the pain though. I just can’t figure out what was different during those times. Often feels like it gets much worse when I start doing the journaling and meditation.
 
JanAtheCPA said:
https://www.tmswiki.org/forum/threads/must-listen-from-nicole-sachs.26751/ (Must-Listen from Nicole Sachs)
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Hi Jan

I journaled for 20 days straight with no relief. Feels like I’m just writing the same shit now..

Other TMS practitioners have said that if I haven’t felt relief by now, journaling is probably not for me.

I’ve emailed Nicole and DM’d her but no reply. I guess she’s kind of a big deal so probs gets loads of emails.

Gonna try the SEP soon but my options are running out.

cheers,
Patrick
 
patrickj said:
Feels like I’m just writing the same shit now..
Click to expand...
I have been writing inventory for Decades....and I bore the crap out of myself with redundancy.

Of the four things you list, only one , 'Journaling' is about YOU. The other ones are supportive info. THis is about YOU Patrick.
How are you journaling?

I ONLY write down things that I am consciously angry about.... bad scene at the supermarket, Argument with the GF, aversion to hanging out with Family.. this is about RAGE and I have always disliked that word 'journaling' which sort of sounds like "How my day went'...How your day went IS important, but only in the instances that you are aware you're angry, or when you SHOULD be angry, but are not.

Just curious. I had most of my breakthroughs writing about anger and realizing the stuff I felt was only a fraction AND whenever I felt a symptom, Immediately turning my attention to ANGER.... In the room? Something from this morning? Last night?

That is the single most important instruction for the reconditioning which is what actually makes the pain leave. Was for me at least...I got better in about 3-5 weeks, but I wrote about anger twice or thrice a day.

I also went back to the things I liked to do pre-"pain issue" and did them like a meditation focusing on ANGER the whole way through... Kept fighting through until I broke the conditioning with all the little things that make up our day.
 
Baseball65 said:
I have always disliked that word 'journaling' which sort of sounds like "How my day went'..
Click to expand...
Agreed! I prefer to call it "writing shit down". The word "journaling" also sounds like you're expected to keep what you write, which in me, leads to dishonesty, editing, and avoidance. Nicole Sachs actually recommends disposing of your writing immediately. I use crappy old notebook paper and scribble illegibly until both sides are used up, then I toss it. Couldn't read most of it even if I wanted to. It's just a brain dump, stream of consciousness, whatever comes into my head, editing not allowed.
 
Baseball65 said:
That is a great prompt.

When I ask myself why I am angry, in the 'what does it affect', I am always concerned with what a 'good person' should feel vs. What I am really feeling...like not living up to my 'Moses' (superego)
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Yes, I think it is these internal conflicts that need the most attention.
 
One more point, @patrickj , that I hope will be helpful. I think it's important to do all the activities you list with the goal of finding the TRUTH about yourself, and not with the goal of eliminating symptoms. I know this sounds like a subtle distinction, but I think the intention behind these activities is essential. Obviously, we all learn about doing these things because we want to find our way out of pain. However, in my experience, the symptoms only lessen when I'm not paying attention to them. Usually, I would suddenly realize that I haven't thought about a symptom for X amount of time because it had left. Gone! If I had been constantly checking to see if it was gone yet, I don't think it would have left. This is why I always recommend that people do TMS related activities for a certain amount of time per day, but then forget about it and go about your life.
 
Ellen said:
Fibromyalgia is TMS. If your doctor tells you that you have Fibromyalgia, then you have TMS.

I've been using this journaling prompt from Nicole Sachs and I find it helpful: What am I unwilling to feel?
Click to expand...
Exactly! Fibromyalgia is TMS, and so is chronic fatigue and gazillion of other long labels doctors love to invent.
 
Baseball65 said:
I have been writing inventory for Decades....and I bore the crap out of myself with redundancy.
Click to expand...

Hi Baseball65, in the last few weeks I've been paying a lot of attention to my emotions, but I haven't noticed much of a change. Now, like you, I write down what I'm upset about three times a day. A lot of stuff comes out!!! I rant and curse about anything that comes to my mind. That's what it's all about, isn't it? Is it normal for the pain symptoms to get worse in the beginning? I'm a little concerned about that.
 
Renate said:
Is it normal for the pain symptoms to get worse in the beginning? I'm a little concerned about that.
Click to expand...
Dr Sarno variously called this the "extinction burst" or the "symptom imperative" and yes - it's 100% normal! And it will keep happening. The way to deal with it is with celebration - because this behavior is proof of the TMS mechanism at work! Hooray!
 
I completely understands you Patrick, I have pain since 2011 I know about TMS since at least 2018 I've read a ton of books from Steve Ozanich, Nicole Sachs, I've listened to all Dan Buglio youtube videos, to all Nicole videos and podcast, I'm journaling every day(well, excluding few days when I just was too tired) since beginning of 2023 and nothing works. I mean it's even worse, as my primary persistent and 24/7 symptoms are teeth/facial pain and stomach pain/bloating but in last few months my eyes are also starting to act weird and my knees/legs hurts like hell but maybe because at almost 34 I'm not a spring chicken and maybe that's just getting old. I lament losing my youth to TMS and even with persistent and hard work from my side nothing works. I know it's TMS/neurological problem as pretty much all my medical tests had normal results, and no medicine from doctors ever helped even a little bit, not to mention my teeth/facial pain and stomach gets worse with change in weather and with me getting stress(+ I have complicated relationship with food, my mom always forced me to eat everything from plate even when I couldn't, and her only topic of conversation 90% of time was food, food, food) but that knowledge gave me nothing but dissapointment.
 
Ah, by the way I just don't know what to write/journal about after months of doing this. I just journaled about every thing, and when I do "the work" as specified by Nicole Sachs I can only write about some stuff for 5 minutes(either rehashing over and over old stuff or write about some mild inconveniences about my days), and the remaining 15 minutes I paint doodles.
The only thing I hate is my pain. I hate my pain pain pain pain. I have ok job, I have hate/love relationship with my mom(but I'm 100% aware of that) I don't care about my dad, I wrote about all of those stuff hundreds of time. I don't have money problem, or relationship problem(I like being alone) but I hate pain pain pain that makes my life miserable.
 
Kozas said:
Ah, by the way I just don't know what to write/journal about after months of doing this. I just journaled about every thing, and when I do "the work" as specified by Nicole Sachs I can only write about some stuff for 5 minutes(either rehashing over and over old stuff or write about some mild inconveniences about my days), and the remaining 15 minutes I paint doodles.
The only thing I hate is my pain. I hate my pain pain pain pain. I have ok job, I have hate/love relationship with my mom(but I'm 100% aware of that) I don't care about my dad, I wrote about all of those stuff hundreds of time. I don't have money problem, or relationship problem(I like being alone) but I hate pain pain pain that makes my life miserable.
Click to expand...

Well we sound very similar. We’re the same age too. I completely understand. I’m probably not the best person to offer advice because the mind-body approach hasn’t worked for me (maybe it will one day)

But I also know there’s nothing wrong with my body and my scans are also clear (except for shoulder which I’m waiting on results from)

I also lament and regret losing so much time and opportunity because of my physical and mental health. It’s hard to let go and live in the present moment but that’s the only option we have.

I stopped journaling because it became a chore with no results. Nicole Sachs makes out as if it WILL make your pain go away. I don’t want to criticise her but that’s clearly incorrect.

My current approach is Louise Hay affirmations, meditation and self love. I have a double whammy of issues because my day-to-day thinking patterns, beliefs and routines are very stressful and i’m generally anxious and depressed. I also have childhood trauma so there’s a lot to deal with.

Maybe a bit of one-to-one might help if you haven’t tried. Just to offer some reassurance. I would recommend Dr Tovah Goldfein.

Keep in touch..
 
patrickj said:
Well we sound very similar. We’re the same age too. I completely understand. I’m probably not the best person to offer advice because the mind-body approach hasn’t worked for me (maybe it will one day)

But I also know there’s nothing wrong with my body and my scans are also clear (except for shoulder which I’m waiting on results from)

I also lament and regret losing so much time and opportunity because of my physical and mental health. It’s hard to let go and live in the present moment but that’s the only option we have.

I stopped journaling because it became a chore with no results. Nicole Sachs makes out as if it WILL make your pain go away. I don’t want to criticise her but that’s clearly incorrect.

My current approach is Louise Hay affirmations, meditation and self love. I have a double whammy of issues because my day-to-day thinking patterns, beliefs and routines are very stressful and i’m generally anxious and depressed. I also have childhood trauma so there’s a lot to deal with.

Maybe a bit of one-to-one might help if you haven’t tried. Just to offer some reassurance. I would recommend Dr Tovah Goldfein.

Keep in touch..
Click to expand...

I've tried affirmations before, but they felt fake to me. Meditation are alright, especially John Kabat-Zinn version, but he never claimed it will cure your chronic pain, it only helps you live with it. Which it did, before mindfullness meditation that I discovered in 2017 I was a mess not only physically but mentally, and much worse than now. I couldn't handle a job etc, now at least I have fullfilling job(I'm a teacher)
TMS practitioners are more or less out of the question for me. I'm polish so not only it's completely different time zone, I'm not confident with my english(especially while speaking) and it's just expensive for me. I earn ~6000 PLN per month which is good wage here in Poland, but it's less than 1500 USD.
I wouldn't say I have childhood trauma myself, I mean dad was never near me, and mom was unstable(bi polar for sure) and she always kept me down and humilate me, but I wrote about that many times. Middle school was shit for me which I wrote many times, and I had for a really long time problem with quite severe acne but I wrote about that many times too. To be honest journaling is something I do almost all my life, just not in Nicole Sachs style. 20 minutes of writing? If I write every day about my thoughts, 5 minutes is enough.I will write A4 page about dunno some sad memory or something that made me angry today but that's it. Writing for 20 minutes it's just so tiresome and boring.
 
Hey, @Kozas - it's been quite a while, I think, but I definitely remember your struggles. And it certainly seems like you and @patrickj have a LOT in common. The one that jumps out at me is that you both have mentally unbalanced mothers and essentially absent fathers. In your case, as a child you had to deal with your mother being bipolar, which is an evil disease, and with a father who I assume abandoned both of you because of her illness - and made no attempt to help you survive. In Patrick's case, he had(still has?) a mentally ill and actively abusive mother, and a father who was physically there, but who apparently turned a blind eye to the abuse she was infliciting on their child - and as he got older his father basically told him to suck it up and stop complaining. It's just a form of abandonment while still appearing to be there.

Good Lord, guys. I can't even begin to imagine the horror. And that's coming from someone who had a bipolar foster daughter (we got her at age 14, after she'd been in many other placements). Her mother was also bipolar, as was the grandmother, and they were all alcoholics. So I guess I have a little bit more of a clue than the average person, and I KNOW how damaging this is. And I also have to wonder - do you worry about your own mental health? Is that a deep fear that you are carrying around, which your conscious brain does not want you to examine too closely?

@Kozas, some time ago I suggested to Patrick that he answer the ten ACEs questions. These are Adverse Childhood Experiences, and on this public radio website (NPR in the US) they explain ACEs and their effect on adult physical and mental health, and they provide an easy way to answer the ten Yes or No questions. It only takes a few minutes to take the test (don't skip the information in the article, however). You have to answer them honestly, of course, but I don't think you'll have a problem with that.

@patrickj, no spoilers! If Kozas is willing to answer the questions and report back with his "score" then you can compare. I think it would be very helpful for all of us to get a better picture of ACEs and the struggles that certain people have who remain in severe pain, to the point where reading about the successes of others becomes a burden.

PS to @Kozas - regarding the ACEs questions, I say "score" in quotes because you can't really think of it as a score like a test - it's just a way to count how many ACEs someone experienced during their childhood.

PPS to @Kozas - your English is damn good! I tried to study another language for many years when I was young, so I totally get that it's a lot easier (for me, anyway) to read and write in a second language than to speak and listen!

~Jan
 
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