1. Alan has completed the new Pain Recovery Program. To read or share it, use this updated link: https://www.tmswiki.org/forum/painrecovery/
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No back pain...now patellar knee pain is back

Discussion in 'Structured Educational Program' started by kdog, Apr 23, 2012.

  1. kdog

    kdog New Member

    I am very happy to report that at this very moment my back pain and sciatic nerve pain is completely gone. I am still seeing my cranial therapist, but I am diligently doing the structured program work and reading The Divided Mind at the same time. Now that I'm increasing my activity level because of decreased back pain my knee pain from 12 years ago is returning. I was diagnosed with patellar femoral pain (I think it's a catch all) due to misaligned knee caps (knock knees). I have not backed down from my increased level of exercise, but I'm afraid to push further. My knee pain stems from an old injury that resulted in me stopping running. I decided that if I'm going to believe that my back is strong and healthy that I want to try to run again. I'm truly afraid to push this for fear of injuring myself again. I saw the 2 posts on the success stories for knee pain, but I'm wondering if others out there have experience with knee pain and pushing through it. I know that this particular knee diagnosis is sort of bogus, but my injury resulted in swollen knees, being laid up for a few weeks, and years of physical therapy. I really don't want to go back there again. I know that the pain can move from one area to another, but how do you know when to actually back off and when to just plow ahead?
  2. Beach-Girl

    Beach-Girl Well known member

    Awesome. Great feeling isn't it?

    And herein lies a great issue for me too. I used to run but stopped when I developed debilitating back pain. I would love to run again, but fear has me "stuck". I can totally relate to this barrier.

    My pain went right into my neck and shoulder - about 2 months ago, and has not let up. Signal: You aren't there yet. So keep on doing what you're doing. Keep reminding your knees that the pain is "bogus" and keep working through your issues. I've read a lot of runners start with walk/running. But I suggest you wait until your knees want to do this too. Shouldn't be too long as you seem to be doing really well.

    Best of luck

  3. Forest

    Forest Beloved Grand Eagle

    Hiya Kdog,

    Congrats on eliminating your back and sciatica pain! It sounds like this approach is working for you so keep knocking off all of those symptoms. As for getting back to running, I suggest to listen to what your body is telling you and do what ever you are comfortable with. I had bad leg pain that kept me from walking long distances. I started getting better, I simply walked longer distances until I had the confidence that nothing could hold be back. I now bike ride pretty much everywhere without any pain!

    Try asking yourself what emotional barriers you have to being active again, and tell yourself that your fears are bogus, and that it's just TMS/PPD. Believe and acceptance with this approach are key to gaining the confidence to take those important steps to be active again. When I started being active again and my legs hurt, I would just tell it that it is only PPD and nothing to worry about. Really the best help was when I just stopped focusing on my symptoms. I let myself get caught up in where I was going and never really thought about my symptoms. I think this is important when becoming active again. Don't focus on how your legs feel. Instead focus on what you are doing. Focus on your running and the path that you take. In short, try and practice a sort of mindfulness while you exercise.
  4. peteuk

    peteuk New Member

    If it helps at all, I have been through something very similar. A long story cut short is that I had unexplained knee problems (i.e. MRI didn't show anything) which was assumed to be patella tendonitis. Lots of frustrating and useless treatment later I stopped worrying about my knee as low back pain took over my life for a few years. This couldn't be tracked down by the medics, so shoulder pain took over. I then finally met a physiotherapist who introduced me to TMS thinking. The back/shoulder pain went away in a couple of weeks and then the knee pain returned. My physio (who makes his main living treating very highly paid professional athletes so knows what he is doing) helped me to understand that all the usual advice about pore posture, misaligned legs, the need for orthotics was nonsense and that fundamentally I was in good shape. I basically told the knee pain to get lost, and immediately returned to exercise again after having stopped for five or six years due to my various 'ailments'. I have managed numerous half marathons and even a marathon since. Now and then I get a flare up, it is surprising how easily I can forget the anti-TMS actions so I read the literature again, and get back to normal pretty quickly.

    So in summary, you are experiencing something very common, and can beat it! Perhaps like me, the original lower limb 'diagnosis' was the traditional medics clutching at whatever was the current orthodoxy, and in fact you were always fundamentally OK. But understandably you are nervous about throwing this idea away, as you have lived with it for many years. But it is interesting that there are many parallels with my story...
  5. Forest

    Forest Beloved Grand Eagle

    Hiya peteuk and Welcome to the Wiki!

    Thanks for sharing your story. It is so great to hear that you have recovered by using this approach. It is amazing that you were able to run marathons after having experience debilitating pain, and you are a testament to the TMS approach. Your story is similar to Enrique's story who now runs ironman triatholans. Feel free to sometime write out the full story. I'm sure others would find it helpful.
  6. Nora

    Nora New Member

  7. Nora

    Nora New Member

    I'm new here and thought I'd comment on this forum as I'm dealing with a similar problem. I've had various TMS symptoms for the past ten years - back spasms, TMJ, bouts of insomnia and skin problems. I've read Sarno's books and others and fortunately I've been able to get rid of my symptoms rather quickly, mostly by making an effort to change my negative thoughts. I saw a behaviorial therapist about 3 years ago which helped and I try to get back to that thinking when a new symptom crops up. I was dx with knee arthritis about 2 years ago but it has not been too troubling. About a month ago my knee started to buckle on me. This was both painful and scary as I was afraid I would fall . I saw the orthopod. He seemed a little perplexed at the nature of my symptoms as it occurs mainly after
    sitting or lying down. The xray showed moderate arthritis with a floating bone chip. He recommended a knee scope to "clean out the chip". I am now sure this is TMS as I have had similar symptoms of this knee buckling on me, but it was sporadic and would be gone in a day. I am finding myself obsessing about this problem. Even before I get up from a seated position my thoughts are "is this going to happen again". I am well aware this these obsessive thoughts
    are feeding the symptom, but I can't seem to stop the thoughts and recondition myself. All thoughts are welcome.
  8. Forest

    Forest Beloved Grand Eagle

    Hiya Nora and Welcome to the Wiki,

    I am not too familiar with the buckling knee. The one thing that is similar, at least, to TMS is the obsession. I find that journaling and the wiki's Structured Program are great places to start if you want to recondition your unconscious. I would also recommend checking out the article Breaking the Pain Cycle. It really gets into how to reverse the conditioning associated with TMS. I encourage you to continue to educate yourself about TMS and investigate your emotions. It is great to see you here. You are in the right place.

  9. kdog

    kdog New Member

    Thank you for posting the Breaking the Pain Cycle article, Forest. I think that was the kind of lesson I needed to hear. I'm still struggling to get past the physiology on this one, but the article helps.
  10. Forest

    Forest Beloved Grand Eagle

    Hiya kdog,

    I am glad that you found the Breaking the Pain Cycle article helpful. One of the main reasons I like the article is that it addresses how fear affects our symptoms. However, fear is directly related to how we view our symptoms and the level of acceptance we have. If we fully accept that TMS is what we have, then we know that our symptoms do not have a structural cause and there is nothing to fear. If you are struggling with acceptance, then I would encourage you to continue reading. Read the posts and articles on our site. Personally, I found reading success stories helpful and was really able to connect with the people who wrote them. These stories gave me the courage to start being active again.

    I would also recommend trying to identify why you are struggling. Chronic pain can become how we identify ourselves and can consume our lives. Recovery can change our situation and make us address issues that we have repressed. It is important to ask ourselves if there is anything that, subconsciouly, is preventing us from accepting the diagnosis. The TMS process is about identifying our underlying emotions. This is important to both overcoming our symptoms and our struggles.

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