Nicotine and disc heath/pain

C

Cwoolworth56

Newcomer
I have had chronic low back pain and bad spasms for a few years now. Also diagnosed with l5s1 disc protrusion and stenosis. I used nicotine daily in the form of smokeless tobacco for about a decade but over the last 4 years only on the weekend while having a few beers. I’ve read online how nicotine “causes” disc problems. I’ve not used it at all for about a month and a half now and the pain may be less. But I miss it greatly. Any thoughts?
 
Cwoolworth56 said:
I have had chronic low back pain and bad spasms for a few years now. Also diagnosed with l5s1 disc protrusion and stenosis. I used nicotine daily in the form of smokeless tobacco for about a decade but over the last 4 years only on the weekend while having a few beers. I’ve read online how nicotine “causes” disc problems. I’ve not used it at all for about a month and a half now and the pain may be less. But I miss it greatly. Any thoughts?
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I have never heard how nicotine "causes" disc problems.
I used to think it was from my height, workout habits, posture, and a million other things people have told me in the past.
What I have learned is that most people have disc "abnormalities" meaning their spinal discs don't look perfect on imaging, but only a fraction of those people feel any pain.
If you read any book by Dr. Sarno, especially Healing Back Pain he discusses the true reason that some of us feel back pain, which sometimes coincides with "physical evidence" on imaging, and sometimes it doesn't. Any of his books are a great place to start understanding how the mind body connection works and what drives chronic pain.
I see the National Spine Health website is promoting this, and also provides a free pop up suggesting you might need spinal surgery.
SCAM.
 
Cactusflower said:
I have never heard how nicotine "causes" disc problems.
I used to think it was from my height, workout habits, posture, and a million other things people have told me in the past.
What I have learned is that most people have disc "abnormalities" meaning their spinal discs don't look perfect on imaging, but only a fraction of those people feel any pain.
If you read any book by Dr. Sarno, especially Healing Back Pain he discusses the true reason that some of us feel back pain, which sometimes coincides with "physical evidence" on imaging, and sometimes it doesn't. Any of his books are a great place to start understanding how the mind body connection works and what drives chronic pain.
I see the National Spine Health website is promoting this, and also provides a free pop up suggesting you might need spinal surgery.
SCAM.
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The only connection I could see is that nicotine is a vasoconstrictor and reduces blood flow to the discs. But doing it once or twice a week I think would be more psychological than anything.
 
@Cwoolworth56, the connection I see is that addictions are actually just another way that "TMS" manifests. I believe that Dr Sarno himself was coming around to this conclusion late in his career, but it's really Dr Gabor Mate MD who clearly makes the connection between all of the addictive behaviors and the distress of emotional repression.

Dr Mate's seminal book specifically on the subject of addiction is In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts. I have not read that, but I just finished his newest book, The Myth of Normal, which is like an encyclopedia of the mind body connection, including a section devoted to addictions. His 2003 book When the Body Says No is very well known in this community, and is the third book that influenced my recovery in 2011/2012. He's an outstanding and compassionate writer with a lot of important information to impart about our growing emotional distress.

All of Dr Mate's books are available at many public libraries in the US and, I assume, Canada since he's Canadian (born in Hungary which is a significant factor in his own emotional journey of trauma). There was a long hold for all formats of the new book at my public library and I ended up buying the Kindle book anyway because I want it in my personal library. Audible also has his books, and you can find free content with him all over the internet doing lectures and interviews. I urge you to do a search on "Gabor Mate MD Addiction".
 
PS - In case it's not obvious, although I neglected to state it up front, the reason I brought up addictions as TMS is because if you have a notable addiction (and who among us does not?*) it's just another manifestation of the TMS brain mechanism - so why wouldn't your otherwise unexplainable back pain also be TMS?

*mine are snacks, all kinds, mostly from Trader Joe's. Also mindless entertainment.
 
JanAtheCPA said:
PS - In case it's not obvious, although I neglected to state it up front, the reason I brought up addictions as TMS is because if you have a notable addiction (and who among us does not?*) it's just another manifestation of the TMS brain mechanism - so why wouldn't your otherwise unexplainable back pain also be TMS?

*mine are snacks, all kinds, mostly from Trader Joe's. Also mindless entertainment.
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So do you think it has no affect to occasionally use things like nicotine when one has chronic pain issues or is total abstinence necessary?
 
Cwoolworth56 said:
So do you think it has no affect to occasionally use things like nicotine when one has chronic pain issues or is total abstinence necessary?
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No person on the forum can answer this question for a complete stranger, and on its surface, the question is irrelevant to TMS recovery. I was still writing my full response below when @Cactusflower responded appropriately, by turning the question around for you to contemplate the deeper emotional conflicts which are really at work. I'll add my thoughts anyway, perhaps they will clarify some things about the way TMS recovery works.

1. Your TMS brain will reject any Yes or No answer to your ostensible question. This will happen even if someone gave you a definitive answer, claiming to have been in exactly the same situation with exactly the same TMS symptoms and having cured those exact symptoms by quitting or not quitting. Since the chances of this happening are zero, your brain will definitely convince you that any other answer is not relevant enough, causing you to keep searching and keep asking and keep wasting your time and spinning your wheels. This is its job, and we've seen this in action many many times over the years!

2. Your question is a strong indicator that you are thinking physically instead of psychologically. Dr. Sarno's #1 instruction is that when faced with symptoms that don't make sense, you must become psychologically oriented to your emotional state of mind. Thinking about any kind of physical cause is a distraction that comes from your TMS brain - again, because this is literally its job. In other words, obsessing about this question is keeping you firmly rooted in uncertainty, and uncertainty leads to fear, and fear is where your TMS brain needs you to be, so that you are on edge all the time and alert enough that you will survive out there in the primitive wilderness.

Understand that you are not the only one who does this - all beginning TMSers do this, because maintaining doubt is part of the TMS brain mechanism. You have to develop mindfulness in order to see what it's doing, which is what our educational programs are designed to do.

3. Which leads me to my final answer, which is always going to be that you have to do the deeper emotional work, and do not allow your TMS brain to distract you from doing it. Go through Alan Gordon's Pain Recovery Program to start with, which doesn't take long, and which introduces you to the neuroscience of the TMS brain, and provides some introductory mindfulness tools. Move on to the Structured Educational Program which really should be done one "Day" at a time so that the lessons sink in, and so that you spend quality time when you get into the writing exercises.
 
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JanAtheCPA said:
No person on the forum can answer this question for a complete stranger, and on its surface, the question is irrelevant to TMS recovery. I was still writing my full response below when @Cactusflower responded appropriately, by turning the question around for you to contemplate the deeper emotional conflicts which are really at work. I'll add my thoughts anyway, perhaps they will clarify some things about the way TMS recovery works.

1. Your TMS brain will reject any Yes or No answer to your ostensible question. This will happen even if someone gave you a definitive answer, claiming to have been in exactly the same situation with exactly the same TMS symptoms and having cured those exact symptoms by quitting or not quitting. Since the chances of this happening are zero, your brain will definitely convince you that any other answer is not relevant enough, causing you to keep searching and keep asking and keep wasting your time and spinning your wheels. This is its job, and we've seen this in action many many times over the years!

2. Your question is a strong indicator that you are thinking physically instead of psychologically. Dr. Sarno's #1 instruction is that when faced with symptoms that don't make sense, you must become psychologically oriented to your emotional state of mind. Thinking about any kind of physical cause is a distraction that comes from your TMS brain - again, because this is literally its job. In other words, obsessing about this question is keeping you firmly rooted in uncertainty, and uncertainty leads to fear, and fear is where your TMS brain needs you to be, so that you are on edge all the time and alert enough that you will survive out there in the primitive wilderness.

Understand that you are not the only one who does this - all beginning TMSers do this, because maintaining doubt is part of the TMS brain mechanism. You have to develop mindfulness in order to see what it's doing, which is what our educational programs are designed to do.

3. Which leads me to my final answer, which is always going to be that you have to do the deeper emotional work, and do not allow your TMS brain to distract you from doing it. Go through Alan Gordon's Pain Recovery Program to start with, which doesn't take long, and which introduces you to the neuroscience of the TMS brain, and provides some introductory mindfulness tools. Move on to the Structured Educational Program which really should be done one "Day" at a time so that the lessons sink in, and so that you spend quality time when you get into the writing exercises.
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I have read Alan Gordon’s book and was making decent progress and I paid no mind to the occasional nicotine use until I had read studies about the affect nicotine has on the extra cellular matrix of the discs and blood flow restriction as well as failed surgery results from nicotine blah blah blah. Maybe a better question is on your road to psychological recovery, is it better to abstain or use things that you fear are physical causes when they probably aren’t related? The guilt issues pointed out is perfect about the TMS brain. You enjoy something and then develop a conflicted/entitled relationship about its use.
 
“ is it better to abstain or use things that you fear are physical causes when they probably aren’t related?”

I would re-read Alan’s own experiences with TMS in his book, especially the part where he discusses he’s starts driving again, and his emotional discoveries related to the situation, and his response.
I think that will answer your questions.
Alan’s book is excellent, but sometimes people need to add a bit more to his approach.
Here’s a video that also might help. Notice he too talks about emotional inquiry.

Asking a question in various ways still won’t get you a different response or perhaps the one you want to hear. The truth is, you’ve got some baggage in the areas around your question and even just one journaling session might unpack it and empower you by answering your own question. I think you are at the point you need to do that for your own self-confidence. It’d often a pivotal step in healing.
 
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