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Myositis vs. Myoneural

Discussion in 'General Discussion Subforum' started by Pandagirl, Oct 1, 2012.

  1. Pandagirl

    Pandagirl Peer Supporter

    Good morning! I'm new to the forum and trying to decide if this is where I belong. I'm curious about the recent change from Myositis to Myoneural. I've read 2 of Dr. Sarno's books and while I feel like a lot of the personality types and background could definitely apply to me, I don't specifically suffer from severe back pain. I have unexplained neurological symptoms that I suspect could be caused by MBS, however I don't see many others with the same presentation. I do have some muscle pain, but it bothers me less than the bizarre nerve issues that I experience. Anyone have any thoughts?

    Thank you in advance!
  2. honeybear424

    honeybear424 Well known member

    Hi Pandagirl,

    Welcome to the forum! :)

    I don't suffer from severe back pain either. Try not to let the title of one of Dr. Sarno's books throw you off. I have headaches and unexplained neurological symptoms, along with muscle pain. I have learned to not let the neurological stuff frighten me as much, but it is still there. I am a work in progress!
  3. Forest

    Forest Beloved Grand Eagle

    Hiya Pandagirl and Welcome to the Peer Network,

    There are a lot of different terms out there, and I'll admit it can become confusing at times. The key thing to remember is that regardless of what they stand for, they all refer to the same condition where repressed emotions create physical symptoms. If you find that one term really resonates with you, then by all means continue to use it. I just wouldn't worry too much about the differences between them. Obsessing about the differences between terms, and worrying about which one better fits your symptoms will only distract you from doing the work. Your unconscious is going to try and find a lot of different ways to distract you from your repressed emotions, and focusing on which term fits best is one of them. If you are really confused just say TMS. This can me either myositis, myonueral, or, the term Dr. Sopher uses, The Mindbody Syndrome.

    Also, TMS can create a wide variety of symptoms. It includes a lot more than back pain, even though that is one of the most common. Dizziness, headaches and other neurological issues are also TMS. Your unconscious mind will only create a symptom that you initially view as a structural problem. Your unconscious wants you to ask yourself, Well, this isn't back pain, so is it still TMS. Asking that question is the TMS distraction at work. Begin to think psychologically and you will see progress.
  4. Pandagirl

    Pandagirl Peer Supporter

    Thank you both for your responses! I wouldn't say that I am worried about the differences, just curious if there were further updates to Dr. Sarno's research that had included something more neurological in nature.

    But, if my unconscious mind will only create a symptom that I initially view as a "structural" problem, this doesn't fit my situation. My initial view on my symptoms was that I was developing Multiple Sclerosis because of the bizarre sensations, coupled with the fact that I am within the typical age for onset. This all came on after having a baby and dealing with a significant change in my lifestyle, lack of sleep, stress, anxiety, etc. In the last 22 months I have had normal blood tests, physical exams, brain and cervical MRI's, etc. However, I still experience strange neurological symptoms. Psychologically, I know that I am a candidate for TMS, but what I've also read through on this site was that it is important to get a diagnosis, which I've been unable to do at this point. I've just been given normal results and a shrug of the shoulders from my doctors.
  5. BruceMC

    BruceMC Beloved Grand Eagle

    I believe that Dr Sarno changed the meaning of M in TMS from Myositis to Myoneural because Myositis originally only applied to muscles. However, Myoneral is more inclusive because it takes in muscles, nerves and tendons. Hence, sore muscles, nerve pain and tendonaglias can all be the result of the TMS emotional repression process. Dr Sarno believes that this whole broad range of symptoms are all the result of the autonomic nervous system reducing blood flow to the extremities and thereby increasing oxygen debt, which produces pain in the muscles, nerves and tendons. He felt that using this new term was necessary based on his clinical experience treating TMS patients, not all of whom exhibited muscle pain and cramping.
  6. Forest

    Forest Beloved Grand Eagle

    MorComm - that is pretty much what I thought as well. TMS definitely involves a lot more than just muscles. It is pretty clear from the differences in Sarno's books that his thoughts progressed and moved much further than simply chronic pain (even though that is the most prevalent). I remember in one of his books, Sarno talks about how ulcers were the major disorder prior to the back pain epidemic. Now it seems like Back Pain is becoming replaced with RSI pain and gastrointestinal disorders. Sarno makes it pretty clear that through time the symptoms people get change due to what people consider to be serious medical conditions. Our culture and society has a tremendous amount of influence on what sort of symptoms we develop. Just think about all of the commercials and ads for pain products out there. If you hear that a certain condition is debilitating long enough you become susceptible to developing it.

    A couple people have mentioned that there tends to be a kind of contagion with TMS. Of course, TMS is not actually contagious, but if someone close to you has a symptom (especially if it is debilitating for them) a thought begins to grow in your unconscious that the symptom is serious. Hence, when your unconscious wants to distract you from your emotions it chooses this particular symptom and it distracts you. When you first notice the symptom you immediately think of that other person who had the symptom and couldn't go on the hike, go to work that day, or missed something else. In order to recover, you really do need to forget pretty much everything you heard or know about chronic symptoms to recover. All of that old information will only keep you thinking about structural issues and what you can't do because you have "bad back."

    This is basically what most people get. What most people refer to when they speak of seeing a physician is to primarily just rule out serious medical conditions. It sounds like you did this. I was never diagnosed with TMS officially by a doctor. I was however told be numerous physicians that they couldn't find any reason why I had such severe pain, and that there was nothing they could do. I was in a pretty similar situation as yourself where I was told my results were normal and sent on my way. Having a doctor just shrug at you one of the most frustrating things you can experience.

    But is it also a good thing in that you can now take control of your recovery. Once a physician has cleared you, you can begin to move forward with the TMS treatment. You don't have to worry about having a doctor prescribe you medication or undergo surgery. You have the tools and capability to heal yourself. This is a good thing. If you see that you fit the TMS personality then begin the educational process and think about increasing your activity level. If you commit to this approach, then you will begin to see improvements. I did it, and was able to recover from 18 years of pain.
  7. BruceMC

    BruceMC Beloved Grand Eagle

    Forest, it occurs to me you might want to glance at the first chapter of From Paralysis to Fatigue (1992) where Edward Shorter talks about the acceptable pool of symptoms that are available to a pain patient at any given historical moment. Patients are always trying to find and describe symptoms that a medical doctor will be willing to accept; hence, the hysterical paralysis and fits that Charcot chronicled so diligently in his clinic were laughed out of existence by the next generation of care-givers who believed that Charcot was actually creating patients with hysterical symptoms that would confirm his own theories about neurosis. I guess ulcers used to work, then back pain came along, and now it's RSI and foot problems. A historical progression based on what symptoms the medical establishment is willing to accept as probable given their assumptions about the nature of disease.
  8. Pandagirl

    Pandagirl Peer Supporter

    Thank you for the clarification! One of my fears was MS because I know a few people afflicted and I wonder if that is why I've developed the neurological symptoms that I have.

    I just signed up for the Unlearn Your Pain online workshop and I'll focus 100% on that. I've got nothing to lose!
  9. Steve Ozanich

    Steve Ozanich TMS Consultant

    I don't have any proof, but I believe MS is a more severe form of TMS.

    TMS - T = MS.

    I (figuratively) ran across many people while researching over the last 10 years. Many had hyper Type T personalities, so much so that their tension was hidden deeply. Many had the red-headed traits that are characterized by super sensitivity, but showed no emotion; which is always dangerous.

    I also spoke to 2 people who were diagnosed with MS, and had healed completely. Another, who I had not met, healed from her MS and stated later, "I just had to get the devil out of me." By "devil" I took it as meaning ignorance of awareness. And who can forget the story of Evy McDonald?

    MS will never be considered as TMS because there is too much money and danger involved, and so like any other disorder will be the personal responsibility of the person with the symptoms.

    My son's godfather has MS, he's one of my best friends in life, and he is an ultra-T perfectionist, who denies all emotions. He shows no outward appearances of feelings, and is stoic, and believes in repressing all potential emotions. He too is red-headed.

    Ok, enough of these possibilities, the time to alter biology is in the now, not to linger in the past. The body's physiology can be mutated and morphed by the power of the unity of the conscious and unconscious minds. Unite the divided mind. Or at least have a beer summit for them.

    Balsa11 likes this.
  10. BruceMC

    BruceMC Beloved Grand Eagle

    I do know a choreographer and former prima ballerina who used to take 15 aspirins a day for the rheumatic pain she developed while trying to be a tennis pro in high school. She also later abandoned her ballet career due to chronic joint pain, which disappeared when she stopped dancing. Now, 20 years later she has been diagnosed with MS. Sure sounds to me like TMS and MS are related. Yes, she is a hard-driven perfectionist. Yes, she drives herself ruthlessly. And again yes, she doesn't reveal her intense emotional life and maintains a dead-pan demeanor. I was wondering about the MS and her earlier bouts with pain, and now I see that my surmise may have been true.
  11. Steve Ozanich

    Steve Ozanich TMS Consultant

    Auyervedic healing maintains that people get disease and have pain because they can't reveal their true self; their real faces. The more I see, and the deeper I understand, the more I believe this to be true. If your friend didn't really wanna do all those things, but was pressured to do them, she can hide behind her illness, even if it's years later. She may have never known who she was, what she wanted, and so simply shut down. People can hide within disease for reasons even they aren't aware of. This is why psychology is still the best method for healing, other than a spiritual rebirth.

    Balsa11 likes this.
  12. Lori

    Lori Well known member

    I believe Dr. Sarno mentioned it was issues with nerves, tendons, ligaments and muscles. I'd have to check my lecture notes, but I recall there being 4 pieces.

    Whatever name we favor, we know it exists!

    Interesting about MS; I've read in other literature about its emotional component as well.
  13. BruceMC

    BruceMC Beloved Grand Eagle

    I don't know whether the dancer-choreographer was pushed by her parents to be a tennis pro or a prima. But I do know that at the time she started developing MS symptoms, she was also in the process of trying to re-launch her career as a choreographer with a new performance by a new company that was to debut in San Diego the next month. She had contracted a name dancer and rented a hall for rehearsals before the show and was pushing herself ruthlessly as usual. I think the show had good reviews, but that's when she said she started to go MS symptomatic. In any event, she's been driving herself to achieve perfection most of her adult life. As you suggest, the big question is whether it was parental pressure or a natural outgrowth of her personality? Dunno.
  14. Pandagirl

    Pandagirl Peer Supporter

    Not really a reassuring discussion, thankfully I don't believe that the two are related.
  15. BruceMC

    BruceMC Beloved Grand Eagle

    Not so sure about that. Someone who had chronic pain issues as a teenagers, who also had chronic pain issues as a prima ballerina in her 20s, and now an MS diagnosis in her early 50s at exactly the point where she's trying to reignite her career as a choreographer. Sounds as though there is some underlying common denominator running throughout her life story. That is what modern clinical medicine often overlooks: The big picture over time.

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