My pelvic pain is TMS?

[Misterio]

Hello everyone,

I would like to share my story and ask for guidance from experienced members of the community:

I am a 37 year old male and my symptoms started 1 year ago. I originally felt pain in my rectum and during sigmoidoscopy they discovered a healed fissure. (I live in Canada, so by the time the diagnostic test was done everything has healed).

Unfortunately nobody warned me that I won't be able to drive after the procedure and as a result this procedure was performed without sedation. This was very stressful experience for me and I was emotionally traumatized by it. When I came home I cried in the shower as if I was raped. I know that this may sound silly, but these were my emotions. First time I cried since I was a kid!

Within a couple of days I developed pain in my pelvic floor: shooting aching pain, pain with sitting, pain with walking, pain with bowel movements. After googling the subject I suspected pudendal neuralgia and decided that my life was over. I became almost bed ridden and spent 3 months like this.

Went to pelvic floor pt and she decided to do strengthening exercises which made matters worse.

I gave up on idea of pelvic floor PT. Persuaded myself that I have pudendal neuralgia and decided that this is my life now.

Symptoms gradually improved, but not fully resolved: still chronic pain, but probably 50% of the original pain: pain with sitting but achy pain as if I am sitting on a bruise, not burning or electric shock like pain from nerve.

First aha moment happened when I went on vacation to Mexico: my flight was 6 hours and I sat during this time. It was uncomfortable, but also not catastrophic (PN patients cannot sit for 6 hours). Pain reached certain level and then just stayed the same, maybe 3 or 4. Biggest surprise was when I experienced some pain free hours during the vacation where I was questioning myself if I even have pelvic pain.

I decided to pursue pelvic floor physio with another physical therapist. I thought that this is likely a muscular issue and not my pudendal nerve. I was excited when my therapist diagnosed me with muscle spasms and trigger points. I was very fortunate and with 6 appointments my muscles became normal and trigger points resolved. At my last appointment she pocked at every muscle and I could not care less about the sensation, it felt NORMAL and HEALTHY!

But the pain is still present: pain with sitting, pain with walking and sometimes pain after bowel movement. Pain is either in my buttock, rectum, perinium or testicles, always in one place and never at two places at once.

Pain is still very limiting and frustrating and my physical therapist plans to discharge me as there is nothing wrong with my muscles. She is very knowledgeable, experienced and is considered the best expert in the province where I live. I really respect her opinion.

I am starting to suspect that my pain is actually a mind body condition. Has someone experienced something similar? It definitely had some trauma and muscular component to it, but now it is purely mind body.

Thank you everyone! I appreciate your answers.

 

[Rabscuttle]

Sounds 100% like TMS. I would recommend the structured educational program in this site as well as a book or two on TMS for foundation. I dealt with Pn and various pelvic pains, fully recovered from them via mind body approach

 

[Misterio]

Sounds 100% like TMS. I would recommend the structured educational program in this site as well as a book or two on TMS for foundation. I dealt with Pn and various pelvic pains, fully recovered from them via mind body approach

Thank you for your response. Which two books you would recommend?

Is there a link to a post where you share your story?

 

[Adam Coloretti (coach)]

Hello everyone,

I would like to share my story and ask for guidance from experienced members of the community:

I am a 37 year old male and my symptoms started 1 year ago. I originally felt pain in my rectum and during sigmoidoscopy they discovered a healed fissure. (I live in Canada, so by the time the diagnostic test was done everything has healed).

Unfortunately nobody warned me that I won't be able to drive after the procedure and as a result this procedure was performed without sedation. This was very stressful experience for me and I was emotionally traumatized by it. When I came home I cried in the shower as if I was raped. I know that this may sound silly, but these were my emotions. First time I cried since I was a kid!

Within a couple of days I developed pain in my pelvic floor: shooting aching pain, pain with sitting, pain with walking, pain with bowel movements. After googling the subject I suspected pudendal neuralgia and decided that my life was over. I became almost bed ridden and spent 3 months like this.

Went to pelvic floor pt and she decided to do strengthening exercises which made matters worse.

I gave up on idea of pelvic floor PT. Persuaded myself that I have pudendal neuralgia and decided that this is my life now.

Symptoms gradually improved, but not fully resolved: still chronic pain, but probably 50% of the original pain: pain with sitting but achy pain as if I am sitting on a bruise, not burning or electric shock like pain from nerve.

First aha moment happened when I went on vacation to Mexico: my flight was 6 hours and I sat during this time. It was uncomfortable, but also not catastrophic (PN patients cannot sit for 6 hours). Pain reached certain level and then just stayed the same, maybe 3 or 4. Biggest surprise was when I experienced some pain free hours during the vacation where I was questioning myself if I even have pelvic pain.

I decided to pursue pelvic floor physio with another physical therapist. I thought that this is likely a muscular issue and not my pudendal nerve. I was excited when my therapist diagnosed me with muscle spasms and trigger points. I was very fortunate and with 6 appointments my muscles became normal and trigger points resolved. At my last appointment she pocked at every muscle and I could not care less about the sensation, it felt NORMAL and HEALTHY!

But the pain is still present: pain with sitting, pain with walking and sometimes pain after bowel movement. Pain is either in my buttock, rectum, perinium or testicles, always in one place and never at two places at once.

Pain is still very limiting and frustrating and my physical therapist plans to discharge me as there is nothing wrong with my muscles. She is very knowledgeable, experienced and is considered the best expert in the province where I live. I really respect her opinion.

I am starting to suspect that my pain is actually a mind body condition. Has someone experienced something similar? It definitely had some trauma and muscular component to it, but now it is purely mind body.

Thank you everyone! I appreciate your answers.

It definitely sounds like TMS and I thought I had PN too! Here is my story and I'm more than happy to help further if I can: https://www.tmswiki.org/forum/threa...d-chronic-back-pain-starting-at-age-21.30294/

 

[Rabscuttle]

Thank you for your response. Which two books you would recommend?

Is there a link to a post where you share your story?

My story is still ongoing because I have other symptoms but I’ve made good progress. But post vasectomy pain was what led me here and that’s completely gone, and if I can turn off that pain when there’s something anatomically off then I’m quite certain I can get over the rest of my issues.

I think anything by Sarno is a good starting point. I would just pick a program and dive in then reevaluate when you’re finished. Personally I’ve found most success with spiritual based non guided meditation, But everyone is different.

and just an fyi, most people dealing with PN are dealing with TMS, neuralgia is just a general term for nerve pain. Even if someone’s nerves are compressed that doesn’t mean it’s not TMS, you can get nerve compression from a few things, and they can easily be caused by the brain creating tension. You can have TMS and your manifesting of TMS is PN. Don’t get lost in labels or diagnosis’, especially when they’re just describing symptoms.

the PN forums are full of people who are absolutely terrified and medicalized and misled by doctors who have no idea what they’re talking about. A body that isn’t in chronic fight or flight heals. If we’re in a constant panic and subsequently treating ourselves like dogshit then the symptoms can keep going indefinitely.

 

[HealingMe]

I’ve had very similar symptoms and you’ll find that a lot of other folks have too by searching the success stories and just the forum in general.

Our mind likes to attach itself to something that scares us or you have deemed is important — so it will continue to send the signal to get your attention, away from your emotions. It can be inconsistent and play tricks on you to keep you engaged.

What you’re going through does sound like TMS — and you’ve been to doctors who have told you everything looks good now.

I think you’re golden to begin examining the MindBody connection — have you read a book by Dr. Sarno? Get yourself a copy and start there. Also this forum offers a Structured Educational Program which is fantastic and almost everyone who’s completed it has had the aha! moments and learned something deeper about themselves and their habits.

Another book that’s highly recommended is Hope and Help For Your Nerves by Dr. Claire Weekes. It’s a very slim small book but it’s saved my life many times. I keep this on my bedside table.

Welcome and good luck!

 

[cafe_bustelo]

I have had similar symptoms and have seen a lot of progress with the TMS approach in the last two or three months that I’ve been committing to it. I too had physical trauma/injury to my pelvic area and if I am being honest with myself I am still working on letting go of the fear that something might still be damaged there, but the fear doesn’t square with days I’ve had when the pain has diminished or gone away entirely, which you’ve also experienced and which are more evidence of TMS. I too gave up on the regular physical therapy route and have had the most success working on the psychological.

Yes, read a Sarno book! I started with Healing Back Pain and then read Mindbody Prescription. I might recommend starting with Mindbody Prescription. I’m now starting the Divided Mind finally which is great so far but longer and a bit more work to get through.

 

[BloodMoon]

Hi @Misterio and welcome to the forum!

I too experienced pudendal neuralgia-like pain (for a long time) as one of many tension-related symptoms — including throbbing and burning pain in my rectum.

I’m female and post-menopausal, and my PN-like pain came on after using an electrical kegel (pelvic floor muscle exercising) device on medical advice. Whether you're male or female, pelvic floor actually needs balanced tension for organ support, and overworking the muscles with kegels can disturb that balance.

My rectal pain began very suddenly one day — a sharp, searing pain during a bowel movement — followed by months of burning and throbbing, with no structural cause found.

What helped me recover was mind/body work (releasing emotional tension, which in turn releases bodily tension and discomfort) combined with the technique described in an article I once found online (unfortunately the link no longer works, so I can’t credit the author) as follows:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DID YOU KNOW THAT YOUR TONGUE HABITS AFFECT YOUR PELVIC FLOOR?

The hypoglossal neurons that control the tongue are linked with the phrenic neurons that control the diaphragm.

In simple terms, your tongue’s position and activity can help activate the diaphragm, encouraging deeper breathing and improving pelvic floor coordination.

To breathe diaphragmatically, place your tongue on the roof of your mouth just behind your front teeth. This helps signal the diaphragm to contract properly and draw air into the lungs.

Using the diaphragm throughout the day allows the pelvic floor to move naturally through its full range of motion, keeping it supple and responsive.

Shallow breathing up in the chest and shoulders tells the nervous system to “ramp up,” which can increase muscular tension and pain.

So if you have pelvic floor issues, one of the best things you can do is keep your tongue resting gently on the roof of your mouth to support nasal and diaphragmatic breathing.

A normal resting tongue position can be found by placing the tongue against the roof of your mouth as if making a clucking or clicking sound. Ideally, the front third of the tongue rests just behind the front teeth.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Regarding the above, I found that a simple trick is to make the “n” sound softly to yourself — that naturally puts your tongue in the right position.

I started tagging “check my tongue position” onto daily activities — after brushing my teeth, before and after using the bathroom, after finishing a call, etc. This helped me build it into routine life without much effort, and it has now become a good habit.

Bear in mind that it's unlikely that you will get instant relief — the muscles need time to rebalance — but doing this regularly over time made a profound difference for me.... Combined with mind/body work to ease general mental and physical tension, I gradually lost not only my pelvic discomfort but also many other tension-related symptoms.

Unfortunately nobody warned me that I won't be able to drive after the procedure and as a result this procedure was performed without sedation. This was very stressful experience for me and I was emotionally traumatized by it. When I came home I cried in the shower as if I was raped. I know that this may sound silly, but these were my emotions. First time I cried since I was a kid! Within a couple of days I developed pain in my pelvic floor: shooting aching pain, pain with sitting, pain with walking, pain with bowel movements. After googling the subject I suspected pudendal neuralgia and decided that my life was over. I became almost bed ridden and spent 3 months like this.

This was not at all silly! Your brain's reaction makes perfect sense after such a distressing experience. I had a sigmoidoscopy to investigate my issues and my brain responded by giving me horrendous colon pain — which happened for many months afterwards, but eventually disappeared after I used mind/body approaches to calm my nervous system and release stored tension.

 

[Misterio]

It definitely sounds like TMS and I thought I had PN too! Here is my story and I'm more than happy to help further if I can: https://www.tmswiki.org/forum/threa...d-chronic-back-pain-starting-at-age-21.30294/

Thank you for your support Adam. I would love to have a coach in navigating this new world of TMS. I would really appreciate your guidance on my next steps.

 

[Misterio]

My story is still ongoing because I have other symptoms but I’ve made good progress. But post vasectomy pain was what led me here and that’s completely gone, and if I can turn off that pain when there’s something anatomically off then I’m quite certain I can get over the rest of my issues.

I think anything by Sarno is a good starting point. I would just pick a program and dive in then reevaluate when you’re finished. Personally I’ve found most success with spiritual based non guided meditation, But everyone is different.

and just an fyi, most people dealing with PN are dealing with TMS, neuralgia is just a general term for nerve pain. Even if someone’s nerves are compressed that doesn’t mean it’s not TMS, you can get nerve compression from a few things, and they can easily be caused by the brain creating tension. You can have TMS and your manifesting of TMS is PN. Don’t get lost in labels or diagnosis’, especially when they’re just describing symptoms.

the PN forums are full of people who are absolutely terrified and medicalized and misled by doctors who have no idea what they’re talking about. A body that isn’t in chronic fight or flight heals. If we’re in a constant panic and subsequently treating ourselves like dogshit then the symptoms can keep going indefinitely.

Thank you very much for sharing your story. I am so glad to hear that you were able to overcome your post vasectomy pain.

Thank you. I will start with Dr. Sarno's books.

 

[Misterio]

I’ve had very similar symptoms and you’ll find that a lot of other folks have too by searching the success stories and just the forum in general.

Our mind likes to attach itself to something that scares us or you have deemed is important — so it will continue to send the signal to get your attention, away from your emotions. It can be inconsistent and play tricks on you to keep you engaged.

What you’re going through does sound like TMS — and you’ve been to doctors who have told you everything looks good now.

I think you’re golden to begin examining the MindBody connection — have you read a book by Dr. Sarno? Get yourself a copy and start there. Also this forum offers a Structured Educational Program which is fantastic and almost everyone who’s completed it has had the aha! moments and learned something deeper about themselves and their habits.

Another book that’s highly recommended is Hope and Help For Your Nerves by Dr. Claire Weekes. It’s a very slim small book but it’s saved my life many times. I keep this on my bedside table.

Welcome and good luck!

Thank you very much for your support. I will definitely start with the books that you suggested.

 

[Misterio]

Hi @Misterio and welcome to the forum!

I too experienced pudendal neuralgia-like pain (for a long time) as one of many tension-related symptoms — including throbbing and burning pain in my rectum.

I’m female and post-menopausal, and my PN-like pain came on after using an electrical kegel (pelvic floor muscle exercising) device on medical advice. Whether you're male or female, pelvic floor actually needs balanced tension for organ support, and overworking the muscles with kegels can disturb that balance.

My rectal pain began very suddenly one day — a sharp, searing pain during a bowel movement — followed by months of burning and throbbing, with no structural cause found.

What helped me recover was mind/body work (releasing emotional tension, which in turn releases bodily tension and discomfort) combined with the technique described in an article I once found online (unfortunately the link no longer works, so I can’t credit the author) as follows:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DID YOU KNOW THAT YOUR TONGUE HABITS AFFECT YOUR PELVIC FLOOR?

The hypoglossal neurons that control the tongue are linked with the phrenic neurons that control the diaphragm.

In simple terms, your tongue’s position and activity can help activate the diaphragm, encouraging deeper breathing and improving pelvic floor coordination.

To breathe diaphragmatically, place your tongue on the roof of your mouth just behind your front teeth. This helps signal the diaphragm to contract properly and draw air into the lungs.

Using the diaphragm throughout the day allows the pelvic floor to move naturally through its full range of motion, keeping it supple and responsive.

Shallow breathing up in the chest and shoulders tells the nervous system to “ramp up,” which can increase muscular tension and pain.

So if you have pelvic floor issues, one of the best things you can do is keep your tongue resting gently on the roof of your mouth to support nasal and diaphragmatic breathing.

A normal resting tongue position can be found by placing the tongue against the roof of your mouth as if making a clucking or clicking sound. Ideally, the front third of the tongue rests just behind the front teeth.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Regarding the above, I found that a simple trick is to make the “n” sound softly to yourself — that naturally puts your tongue in the right position.

I started tagging “check my tongue position” onto daily activities — after brushing my teeth, before and after using the bathroom, after finishing a call, etc. This helped me build it into routine life without much effort, and it has now become a good habit.

Bear in mind that it's unlikely that you will get instant relief — the muscles need time to rebalance — but doing this regularly over time made a profound difference for me.... Combined with mind/body work to ease general mental and physical tension, I gradually lost not only my pelvic discomfort but also many other tension-related symptoms.

This was not at all silly! Your brain's reaction makes perfect sense after such a distressing experience. I had a sigmoidoscopy to investigate my issues and my brain responded by giving me horrendous colon pain — which happened for many months afterwards, but eventually disappeared after I used mind/body approaches to calm my nervous system and release stored tension.

Thank you for sharing your story and supporting me. I now started paying attention to my tongue, but it seems to be in the recommended position all the time

 

[BloodMoon]

Thank you for sharing your story and supporting me. I now started paying attention to my tongue, but it seems to be in the recommended position all the time

Well, that's good, so that's half the 'battle' already won!

I was thinking that you might find Ezer's recovery story encouraging. He was diagnosed with pudendal neuralgia and had physical treatments to include surgery, all to no avail because his symptoms were mind/body in origin, here's the link: https://www.tmswiki.org/forum/threads/pelvic-pain-healed.8680/

Of note is that Ezer's posting is a very old one and the website of Monte Huefte's that Ezer refers to is no longer available, but you can read Monte's recovery story here https://www.tmswiki.org/ppd/Monte_Hueftle. (Monte didn't have pelvic pain but experienced other pains; Ezer was inspired by his story and used a similar mind/body approach.)

Wishing you well.

 

[Misterio]

Well, that's good, so that's have the 'battle' won! I was thinking that you might find Ezer's recovery story encouraging. He was diagnosed with pudendal neuralgia and had physical treatments to include surgery, all to no avail because his symptoms were mind/body in origin, here's the link: https://www.tmswiki.org/forum/threads/pelvic-pain-healed.8680/ Of note is that Ezer's posting is a very old one and the website of Monte Huefte's that Ezer refers to is no longer available, but you can read Monte's story here https://www.tmswiki.org/ppd/Monte_Hueftle. (Monte didn't have pelvic pain but Ezer was inspired by his story and used a similar mind/body approach.) Wishing you well.

Thank you for sharing this. Yes, I spent a-lot of my days catastropisimg as I read horrors on pudendalhope where Ezer used to be a moderator. I read all of his posts there and it was very interesting to see his evolution from body to mind-body approach. He tried to save others there, but most people just wouldn’t listen because “their pain was real”.

 

[Jamesrec55]

This is crazy... so i had bad pelvic pain 1 hour of hitting it would hurt and then exponetially ramp up, i travelled to LA to see someone to help me with pelvic pain it was this resisted stretching course i did for like 5 years to no avail, on my flight 11 hours long... i did not having sitting pain literally at all it was bonkers. I thought i was going crazy, here am i flying across the world and it was like one big joke. I was so convinced my issue was structural/needed stretching physiotherapy which i had done for more then 5 years even then it took me a while to clock it because in the pelvic pain space theres so much belief of it being structural. No one was able to tell me why this plane occurence happened and i sweeped it under the rug for a time. It was the same on the other trips i took. Yet in my office chair i absolutely had immediate discomfort on sitting and pain coming on an hour in. Its not like i was super stressed about being in a plane im not scared of plane travel, but i was dreading the pelvic pain that i was convinced would come on and i'd need to like try and convince the staff to let me lie on the floor somewhere or walk up and down the plane for 11 hours.

My guess is being in a large metal bird in the sky for the human brain is a shock and the brain no longer prioristises sending the pain signal to the pelvis because its suddenly distracted by being thousands of feet in the sky. Someone tried telling me it was because of the plane seats but that was rubbish i had sitting pain sitting even on my bed at home. Literally a pelvic floor specialist told me that... then joked oh well maybe you should become a pilot as a career...

I personally took Dan buglio's approach to tms pelvic pain and managed to drastically improve sitting pain in 2-3 months. Prior i tried deep breathing and calming my nervous system through that and avoiding too much sitting but that did not help at all, saw a male pelvic specialist for that. I can fully do the gym without flare ups, food no longer causes me issues.

I noticed too that when im socialising among a lot of people or people i dont usually chat with, in other words im more distracted/focused on communicating well my pelvic pain was better. I have hard flaccid too not sure if you do but mine is like not there at all in similiar social situations, i only know because when i go to the toilet il have a full flaccid no issues. Urinary dribbling and Ed aren't fully gone yet, but ive just started journal speak as per advice here, i do think repressed emotions is playing a role in this and is my next step in this. Its been 3 months which is a small time frame in the 11 year effort where i made no progress, infact my sitting pain became notably worse half way through prior it was really just standing pain which the first pelvic floor physio's i saw were baffled by. I can expand on what i mean by Dan's approach if you want i'm probably almost at the word limit.

For reference ive had pelvic pain and hf issues for about 11 years.

 

[BloodMoon]

I can expand on what i mean by Dan's approach if you want i'm probably almost at the word limit.

He's all about encouraging one's brain to feel safe, so I surmise that's what you did? Would be interesting to know some details of what you did, because people often come on the forums suffering with pelvic pain, so it would be good to have your recovery story to refer them to .

 

[Jamesrec55]

He's all about encouraging one's brain to feel safe, so I surmise that's what you did? Would be interesting to know some details of what you did, because people often come on the forums suffering with pelvic pain, so it would be good to have your recovery story to refer them to .

So yes i dont think in its core Dan's stuff is super different to probably quite a few others but theres nuances for me that really hit home and worked for pelvic pain.
So its all about teaching safety to the brain and not sending it the wrong messages by how we think but also by how we act. Its like the opposite of what i was told prior by the physiotherapist i saw who was mind body focused in London, he said to stop sitting when the pain came on, and said how the brains learned to create pain so avoid bringing it on... but that of course led to be barely being able to sit for long, then a key activity was belly breathing 10 minutes a day, somatic tracking, stretching routine every day, very important you did it every day. I did that for 6 months and got nowhere infact i think my pain was a bit worse. He also told me to stop going to the gym and doing upper body strengthening. Even though it wasn't even flaring me that much my body seemed ok with it. And avoid foods that seeming flared my pain. Although whether they did was always random.

So Dan's approach is like the opposite, dont avoid things that might appear to cause pain right now like foods, excercising, but dont go gunho push through bad pain, nothing like that but dont be avoidant of things because thats affirming to the brain that you have a structural/physical issue. I remember going back to the gym off Dan's advice, i got a flare up doing light cardio for 15 minutes having avoided the gym for 6 months. That was then i really bought into Dan's stuff because i was like ive just 'relaxed' my pelvic floor for 6 months avoided all this stuff and cardio is flaring me up.... anyways 2 weeks later of going back to lifting, i can deadlift without a flare up. Because i'd done the gym in the past without too much of an issue allbeit some flare ups i think that made me respond so quickly. Whereas 5 years of consistent sitting pain every day you know isnt going to vanish overnight. Then food wise i'm eating gluten now, spicy food, no issue at all.

With Dans approach Your not doing 'fixing excercises' aka excercises with the intention to fix the pain like belly breathing or certain stretches as he believes this can affirm to the brain theres something wrong. By all means do stuff like that if you like doing it but not with the intention of it fixing your pain. And those things never worked for me so i ditched them happily, and i went back to doing stuff i wanted, i made a point to sit more and draw on mentally experiences like on the plane where i had no pain and really internalised that/recalled it while sitting and told myself when pain did come on im fine. I made a point to get a pc for my room to not just sit during work but also out of work hours and this just transformed the pain. Gradually increasing time im sitting, not letting the pain get like really bad by any means but just incrementally sitting more, telling myself my body is fine and going about what i wanted to do with the gym etc. And this has absolutely worked. Im not 100% pain free but i can sit a good 8 hours in a day if i was to guess. Longer if im breaking that time up. I have no doubt it will fully go.

I think the journal stuff is working on the hf/ed stuff but its super early days. I think that might be a missing trick, Dan isn't super into journalling but i think just trying to avoid going into story mode and feel emotions which is Dan's approach on that sort of thing for me isn't enough. Feel free to quote me but yeah i wasnt going to post anything until 100% good but i saw OP mention his plane situation and it was the first time i saw someone else report that too and just thought i'd help them along with the tms process if i can. Because i do think for 99% of men it is tms. like no young man should have pelvic pain. Many people have weak muscles/tight muscles and no pelvic pain. Most never even had a pelvic injury that neeed healing. My hamstring are still tight yet my sitting pain is completely different.

I came across Michel Hodge's stuff he is tms orientated and focuses on pelvic pain but his stuff never really hit home the same way, he does fixing excercises although i think maybe doesnt word them as such so overtly. But to me the real focus on not doing fixing excercises and doing stuff i wanted to (Dan has a chapter in his book on how to do this) and with the right mindet of purely internalising its tms and pain sensations were purely my brain being scared/trying to actually protect me, not even that my nervous system is messed up but its overly protected. Whether thats technically true or not i think the message you then tell yourself of im not broken my brains just scared...It just worked very well and made a lot of sense.
I actually got a flare up in pain for 2 days when i really started reading Dan's stuff and choosing to internalise his perspective and method because i believe my brain was like oh damn are you sure? Your about to sit more and do all these things? Was just further proof this was brain/fear related.
But yeah really internalise that hey you sat on a plane... you spoke to friends... and your pain did not come on or was far less... there is nothing actually wrong with my body.

What made me in denial about it being tms is for me stress and anxiety/emotions did not flare me up, and a lot people mention this as the thing.
And OP the fact that your pain moves around is another key indicator. Mine actually didn't for the most part which i think is another reason i doubted tms origionally. Dan's is this tms quiz helped a lot for this. Because you can doubt it if you dont have all the standard/typical tms triggers.

 

[BloodMoon]

Thank you for that, @Jamesrec55! Most people on these forums are still working through symptoms — those who fully recover often post their story and then move on, living their lives. So please don't hesitate to share whatever has helped you; your experience could make a real difference to someone else’s progress, maybe even their life! (You might also find that putting things into words helps reinforce your own understanding of the process — that’s certainly been true for me.)

Some people have found somatic tracking and/or belly breathing helpful, but when those practices turn into a strict routine or “drill,” they can actually add pressure and keep symptoms going... And if stretching exercises are approached as ways to fix the pain — it gives the brain mixed messages, so it sounds like that physiotherapist understood some techniques but missed the deeper principle (shared by virtually all mind-body approaches): the goal being to get back to living freely, taking small steps as necessary so the brain feels safe, rather than avoiding what hurts. You clearly get that, and it shows — you’re well on your way to losing all of your discomfort/pain!

And I really love what you said about getting a PC for your room. That’s such great advice — especially when it means pairing an enjoyable or engaging activity (using your PC for leisure activities rather than work) with something that has triggered or is associated with pain (i.e. sitting) helps the brain form new, positive associations. It’s a lovely and practical example of retraining through pleasure rather than pressure, as it shows the brain that we are safe, nothing bad is happening — in fact, quite the opposite is happening.

Thanks again for sharing!

 

[Jamesrec55]

Thank you for that, @Jamesrec55! Most people on these forums are still working through symptoms — those who fully recover often post their story and then move on, living their lives. So please don't hesitate to share whatever has helped you; your experience could make a real difference to someone else’s progress, maybe even their life! (You might also find that putting things into words helps reinforce your own understanding of the process — that’s certainly been true for me.)

Some people have found somatic tracking and/or belly breathing helpful, but when those practices turn into a strict routine or “drill,” they can actually add pressure and keep symptoms going... And if stretching exercises are approached as ways to fix the pain — it gives the brain mixed messages, so it sounds like that physiotherapist understood some techniques but missed the deeper principle (shared by virtually all mind-body approaches): the goal being to get back to living freely, taking small steps as necessary so the brain feels safe, rather than avoiding what hurts. You clearly get that, and it shows — you’re well on your way to losing all of your discomfort/pain!

And I really love what you said about getting a PC for your room. That’s such great advice — especially when it means pairing an enjoyable or engaging activity (using your PC for leisure activities rather than work) with something that has triggered or is associated with pain (i.e. sitting) helps the brain form new, positive associations. It’s a lovely and practical example of retraining through pleasure rather than pressure, as it shows the brain that we are safe, nothing bad is happening — in fact, quite the opposite is happening.

Thanks again for sharing!

Yeah i imagine belly breathing and somatic tracking is a nice addition but as you say with the right mindset, your physically telling your your body its safe, the reason it didn't help for me i think is because while you can try physically telling the body its ok if mentally im doing it with an intention to fix the issue, pressuring myself to do it daily, kicking myself mentally if i forget or dont want to do it and then believe it will set me back it sends the wrong message. Which is where that physio's advice led me too.
But yeah not to sound too anti belly breathing and those things. The pelvic floor tms guys i find rely too much on that i think its secondary to sending the right way and acting as if we are indeed structurally fine. Theres this focus on relaxing the muscles - honestly i've never been able to conciously do that nor did i know if i did, or did not at the time, and thus avoid strengthening, too much walking, jogging etc. That just doesn't send the right message at all.

Yeah the whole pc thing aswell as starting driving again, both requiring a notable investment was just a big im fine, im actually putting money down because i know il be able to sit so i think it just sent the right message. Before i had bought a console and was lying back in bed after work to avoid siting as much as it could - totally got me nowhere. Yep im happy to share stuff! Im applying it to other areas where i have issues, anyways not to hijack this post, hope op finds what i said useful.

 

[Adam Coloretti (coach)]

So yes i dont think in its core Dan's stuff is super different to probably quite a few others but theres nuances for me that really hit home and worked for pelvic pain.
So its all about teaching safety to the brain and not sending it the wrong messages by how we think but also by how we act. Its like the opposite of what i was told prior by the physiotherapist i saw who was mind body focused in London, he said to stop sitting when the pain came on, and said how the brains learned to create pain so avoid bringing it on... but that of course led to be barely being able to sit for long, then a key activity was belly breathing 10 minutes a day, somatic tracking, stretching routine every day, very important you did it every day. I did that for 6 months and got nowhere infact i think my pain was a bit worse. He also told me to stop going to the gym and doing upper body strengthening. Even though it wasn't even flaring me that much my body seemed ok with it. And avoid foods that seeming flared my pain. Although whether they did was always random.

So Dan's approach is like the opposite, dont avoid things that might appear to cause pain right now like foods, excercising, but dont go gunho push through bad pain, nothing like that but dont be avoidant of things because thats affirming to the brain that you have a structural/physical issue. I remember going back to the gym off Dan's advice, i got a flare up doing light cardio for 15 minutes having avoided the gym for 6 months. That was then i really bought into Dan's stuff because i was like ive just 'relaxed' my pelvic floor for 6 months avoided all this stuff and cardio is flaring me up.... anyways 2 weeks later of going back to lifting, i can deadlift without a flare up. Because i'd done the gym in the past without too much of an issue allbeit some flare ups i think that made me respond so quickly. Whereas 5 years of consistent sitting pain every day you know isnt going to vanish overnight. Then food wise i'm eating gluten now, spicy food, no issue at all.

With Dans approach Your not doing 'fixing excercises' aka excercises with the intention to fix the pain like belly breathing or certain stretches as he believes this can affirm to the brain theres something wrong. By all means do stuff like that if you like doing it but not with the intention of it fixing your pain. And those things never worked for me so i ditched them happily, and i went back to doing stuff i wanted, i made a point to sit more and draw on mentally experiences like on the plane where i had no pain and really internalised that/recalled it while sitting and told myself when pain did come on im fine. I made a point to get a pc for my room to not just sit during work but also out of work hours and this just transformed the pain. Gradually increasing time im sitting, not letting the pain get like really bad by any means but just incrementally sitting more, telling myself my body is fine and going about what i wanted to do with the gym etc. And this has absolutely worked. Im not 100% pain free but i can sit a good 8 hours in a day if i was to guess. Longer if im breaking that time up. I have no doubt it will fully go.

I think the journal stuff is working on the hf/ed stuff but its super early days. I think that might be a missing trick, Dan isn't super into journalling but i think just trying to avoid going into story mode and feel emotions which is Dan's approach on that sort of thing for me isn't enough. Feel free to quote me but yeah i wasnt going to post anything until 100% good but i saw OP mention his plane situation and it was the first time i saw someone else report that too and just thought i'd help them along with the tms process if i can. Because i do think for 99% of men it is tms. like no young man should have pelvic pain. Many people have weak muscles/tight muscles and no pelvic pain. Most never even had a pelvic injury that neeed healing. My hamstring are still tight yet my sitting pain is completely different.

I came across Michel Hodge's stuff he is tms orientated and focuses on pelvic pain but his stuff never really hit home the same way, he does fixing excercises although i think maybe doesnt word them as such so overtly. But to me the real focus on not doing fixing excercises and doing stuff i wanted to (Dan has a chapter in his book on how to do this) and with the right mindet of purely internalising its tms and pain sensations were purely my brain being scared/trying to actually protect me, not even that my nervous system is messed up but its overly protected. Whether thats technically true or not i think the message you then tell yourself of im not broken my brains just scared...It just worked very well and made a lot of sense.
I actually got a flare up in pain for 2 days when i really started reading Dan's stuff and choosing to internalise his perspective and method because i believe my brain was like oh damn are you sure? Your about to sit more and do all these things? Was just further proof this was brain/fear related.
But yeah really internalise that hey you sat on a plane... you spoke to friends... and your pain did not come on or was far less... there is nothing actually wrong with my body.

What made me in denial about it being tms is for me stress and anxiety/emotions did not flare me up, and a lot people mention this as the thing.
And OP the fact that your pain moves around is another key indicator. Mine actually didn't for the most part which i think is another reason i doubted tms origionally. Dan's is this tms quiz helped a lot for this. Because you can doubt it if you dont have all the standard/typical tms triggers.

Thank you for discussing the need to align your actions with the TMS belief (as much as you can) - that's probably the number one issue I come across