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menopause or tms or both?

Discussion in 'Support Subforum' started by karinabrown, Jan 19, 2016.

  1. karinabrown

    karinabrown Well known member

    Hi everyone<

    Posted once here but little repsons maybe put my story in the wrong place.

    The title of my post is bit unusual for this website i guess but did
    use it anyway. because i am digging into to subject on the internet
    menopause (because some claim can cause muscle pain ) an tms,
    ofcourse i love response from ladies on the first ;)could there
    be a relation , could it be a factor , could it be both? could
    the stress of menopause cause tms? so many questions!
    I am 49 years old. was psysical fit until 3,5 years ago. did struggle with some
    axiety for longer., did some therapy for that
    Had a good childhood. but there where some stressfull events last 10 years.

    if you're not "into" menopause troubles please read my story anyway...

    I am new here. From the Netherlands so please bear with me on my English.
    have 3,5 years of dibiliating footpain, first nervepain now mainly in the arch
    and on the tendon on the bottom. No pf according to specialist.
    the never found anything on mri etc
    Had problem with si joint and buttpain, has gotten lot better.
    Footpain has been so bad could not take one step, could not wear a shoe or sock
    now 3,5 years later still on orhodics (though they obvious do not work, but am scared to ditch tehm anyway)
    can walk for 10 minutes at a time. can go through my days with little pain as long as do not
    start to walk for real. keep it at this. So my days are puzzles of little pieces of sit..walk..sit walt
    crazy .. have tried almost everything, been working with a psychosomatic physiotherapist
    for 8 months but could not get to the point i could walk more.
    Have been extreme depressed about loosing my life ; lost my job , my social life and
    so much more : the joy of walking my dog.. going shopping.. the list is endless of stuff i am missing out.
    Last year decided to try to focus on something else than searching for diagnosis or solution
    and started to study. A study wich was my long dream for years. So far it's working : gave me
    a purpose and gotten a lot better in terms of my spirit.
    My foot seems still getting a little better wich is hopefull but also after 3,5 years sounds crazy if your still
    can't talk a normal walk. maybe it has all become a daily life struggle and i do not know how to be "normal " anymore. Today i said to my mom :" if tomorrow i would be able to do everything i wanted to do : i would probably do not know where to begin" mainly cry i guess.
    Anyway : 4 months ago i started to get severe pain in my neck and shoulder : seems tendinitis
    went on pills for 2 weeks, gotten better but still not good now. just this weeks started psychical therapy for that . Although i am pretty sick of any kind of therapy. Now found this website
    and start reading. Tomorrow dr Sarno's book will be delivered. scared en curious.

    will i ever take a walk into the sun with my dog and not have pain but just live ? i dare to question
    myself and hope for the best but still fear it will never happen
    Have read all the footproblem posts here..is this the right path for me too i wonder?
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2016
  2. Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)

    Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021) Beloved Grand Eagle

    Hi, Karina. You live in a beautiful country. I visited Amsterdam years ago in springtime and saw the windmills and tulips and
    the flower boats on the rivers.

    I have been a lifelong dog lover and at age 85 love being with my darling black Lab, Annie. Walking her and my earlier dogs were often the best parts of my days.

    You will love Dr. Sarno's book Healing Back Pain and learn a lot from it. Not to give the plot away (haha), but he recommends doing 12 Daily Reminders. Here they are in an extended version from Herbie, one of the regulars replying to TMS posts:

    Herbie’s Extended Version of Dr. Sarno’s 12 DAILY REMINDERS

    1. The pain is due to TMS. This is real pain or anxiety but it is caused by subconscious tensions and triggers, stressors and traits to your reactions and fears and also when at boiling point your conscious tension can and does also cause real pain.
    2. The main reason for the pain is mild oxygen deprivation. This means that when you get in pain or anxiety then the blood is restricted from going to your lower back, for instance. The blood being restricted causes oxygen deprivation which causes the pain. Remember, where there is no oxygen then there is pain in the body. Also, the pain stays because of fear.
    3. TMS is a harmless condition caused by my REPRESSED EMOTIONS so even though you think you can harm yourself from the years of pain you have felt and how you feel in general -- so far no reports have been heard from TMS healing knowledge causing damage to anyone, it only helps.
    4. The principle emotion is your repressed ANGER -- this means under your consciousness lies something that happens automatically to everyone. TMSers have repressions that are stored because of our personality traits, traumas, stressors, fears, strain, etc... When these stored repressions build and build, then eventually they cause the brain to send pain into your body to keep you from having an emotional crises. The mind-body thinks it is helping you.
    5. TMS exists to DISTRACT your attentions from the emotions, stressors, tensions and strains of your personality traits because if you can get distraction then you won’t have to be in emotional turmoil. When you don't face and feel your emotions and they get repressed because you didn't want to deal with something -- they are just adding up in this beaker, ready to pour over and create real pain and anxiety in your body.
    6. Since my body is perfectly normal, there is nothing to fear. So in reality when I fear the pain or anxiety I just cause myself undo strain and tension adding to the beaker of pain. If I fear, then I feed the pain, If I fear, it’s impossible to recondition. Fear keeps the pain and anxiety alive in the body through focus.
    7. Therefore, physical activity is harmless. If I want to work against the pain I could but it’s better to lose some of the pain so when I start my life over I have to be in pain trying to heal because facing the repressions and all the other activities that cause the pain and reversing my fear and focus to them, then I can heal.
    8. I am resuming all normal physical activity. I don't fear moving anymore. I believe in my body’s ability to heal now. I can move as I want. I will not fear moving with a bent back anymore. I will also practice going out and acting normal again, not in fear of what pain might do to me.
    9. The pain is unimportant and powerless. Its only power is how it is hidden -- its illusion, its fear.
    10. I will keep my attention on the emotional issues. I will think about my emotions and feel my emotions throughout the day. I will not judge, criticize or fear my emotions. I will not run from my emotional issues but face every one of them. I will feel my emotions fully and cry if I need to. Then I will release the emotion and get my mind and thoughts back to my life and living in the present.
    11. I am in control of all of this. This is how I recover.
    12. I will be thinking PSYCHOLOGICALLY AT ALL TIMES. This means I will keep my thoughts on psychological issues like happiness, fear and anger -- traits and triggers, conditioning and journaling -- The science behind mind-body/TMS healing, etc.... This way I will not feed my thoughts to the body -- that is a trick of TMS. TMS will always try to get me to focus on the body caused by the pain until I break its show and flair. When I get my attention off physical symptoms and on to emotional issues and psychological issues then I will not feed the fear of the physical issues anymore, thus making the TMS of no pain effect on the body. This will in return, give us the cure and become pain-free.
  3. karinabrown

    karinabrown Well known member

    dear Walt,

    so nice that you took the time to reply to me!
    you sound like a far younger man! and really healthy too.since you are here i wonder what your painpast is? will try to look it up on your profile: still learning how this forum works.

    i did order dr. sarno's book but another one: bodymind prescript. hope that one is usefull for me too? wasn't easy took 10 days wich sounds like a long long time..once you think you are 'on' to something mean

    the steps you give sound hard work..that's not problem because being in pain is so much hard work too.

    great looking lab! love dogs so much..have a small munsterlander 11yrs ..he is a big love and support in all my days . also part of the sadness cause walking him i loved so much ..
    thank you so much
  4. Susan1111

    Susan1111 Well known member

    Hi Karina welcome to a wonderful Community of very caring people. The path to conquering TMS is different for everyone. This site is filled with ideas and even a free program such as SEP that you can follow.

    My suggestion read the book and absorb it, think about it and how it relates to you. Search this site, click on all different links and see what resonates with you. Perhaps reading the book will be all you need, perhaps mindfulness meditation and or journaling, folliwing a structured program. There is no one way.
    Be good to yourself no matter what path you choose.
    Sending you healing and positive thoughts.
    Warmly, Susan
    mike2014 and North Star like this.
  5. North Star

    North Star Beloved Grand Eagle

    Dear Karina, welcome! I am 51 and am well acquainted with hormones shifting around. I think I'm settling into the "new normal" and it is good. The last ten years have been full of peri-menopause stuff. I have decided to treat any menopausal symptoms as TMS because it is an absolutely NORMAL transition as we age. EVERYTHING in modern medicine tries to turn everything into a treatable diagnosis. It took me having a GYN doctor scaring the shit out of me when my cycles were especially nuts. Obscure cancer testing...poo-pooing my questions about "maybe this is just normal?" It was all about covering his ass.

    Since then, I am just fine on the female front, thank you very much.

    Your other issues echo mine - if you'd like, read my story under my profile. Years and years and years of pain and therapy. I am not pain free fully....YET. But I do exercise vigorously - and joyfully- everyday. I voice my gratitude aloud everyday for the smallest of things. I make it a point to encourage others because it fills my own heart with even more gratitude and love.

    Anyway, dear Karina....you can heal. I promise you. Take a deep breath, dive into the book and know that all will be well. It's a journey and it's one well worth embarking on.

    I send you love from America. :)
    Susan1111 likes this.
  6. karinabrown

    karinabrown Well known member

    Hi north star
    I just read your story and indeed there are many recognizable points,
    I also recognize certain traits, your story sounds pleasant and amusing themselves quite often while I very well know what despair behind it can hide. You describe dry needling for example, as "a special child of hell" now so agree , let them do it ' in my buttock; I was probably beyond the stage of desperation "otherwise I would never have been so crazy. Did not get the fibro diagnoses but if I go to a rheumatologist I almost certain will. don't want to go there now.

    you walking miles : it sounds like a dream to me: dream of just one mile (in fact less : I count in kilometers:)
    still really doubting about the menopause issues : saw a menopause consultant last week : she told me the joint and muscle pains
    are very common and have to do with dropping extrogen levels. so me starting to look for emotions behind those pains sounds kinda risky:
    what if I start poking around and looking for stuff that is not even there ?
    I do have emotions like fear and anger etc but they all came because of the pain : the fact I cannot do the things a want . the big
    frustration about that.
    I do find stuff now I mean but what was there first : the emotions or the pain. does is matter?
    and even then I am so puzzled : because now I do feel a lot of emotions : I do cry etc about stuff : so why does my brain
    give me pain as an extra bonus ? how could this help me : it only made things so bad?
    that's the big one isn't it?
    I do have a lot of reservations on this path now ; but start reading en trying etc.
    One thing I wonder : I did buy a fitbit flex last year : counting my steps wich help me a lot : a walked more than I thought
    so that has been positive : but is it good the journal ' that way in progress or just not ? I wonder ?
    you talk about miles walk: these ar numbers in progress etc : I am very much like that too : but could that be wrong? it is positive if it is good but is negative when I noticed I cannot do stuff enough..

    thanks and greetings from the other side of the world!
    indeed how wonderfull is the internet
  7. North Star

    North Star Beloved Grand Eagle

    Hi, Karina, sorry for the delaying in replying. Things are picking up with our business so I've been rather preoccupied. :)

    I have used a pedometer in the past...that was very encouraging to me to see the steps rack up. (Actually, I'm thinking I should start using that again!)

    Regarding you comment about what was there first, emotions or pain? Such a great question. I no longer see the two as separate. Short of an acute injury or infection, I see aches and pains in my body as an indicator that something is out of balance. It could be that I'm angry. Or hurt. Or scared. (FEAR is a HUGE root in many manifestations of TMS.)

    We think pain though comes first and then the frustration because of the pain. I get that. For me, I had stuffed emotions that were simply unacceptable for me to address....so it was easier for my brain to send it into my various tendons and what not. And yeah...then the fun really begins. NOT!

    I hope my reply isn't too scattered. I've got to get back to work so my time is limited right now.

    Let me know if you have any questions - I would love to be able to help you. :)
  8. karinabrown

    karinabrown Well known member

    hi northstar,

    no sorry for my delay was bussy with familystuff..now better
    and also : was reading my new book(bodymind priscription) fininished it today..
    also started physical therapy : for my shoulder (i know should not do that according to the book..i am not ready i guess) the PT had read my history of past 3 years ..mentioned i should maybe see a rheumatolagist cause : foot..back..buttock and now shoulder in a row did seem to her like fibro ! so there it is on the table! scared me though had a bad night after that. on the other hand: she did an examination on my shoulders and was extremely scared that the day after i would get a lot of extra pain : guess what? no i did not! cannot believe so at least i start to see that my fear to move is pretty big and is holding me back. the book has to sink in: some i agree and some stuff i found crazybut then again : this hole painstuf is crazy. i think about keeping a journal..wich is interesting: i keep journal of my pain and my thinks 'done: but ever really about feelings..maybe there's my first task ? what do you think ? ps : what business you are starting? greetings, Karina
  9. North Star

    North Star Beloved Grand Eagle

    Hi Karina - You poor dear! If you can find another PT, I would highly recommend it. You don't need someone feeding fears and painting horrible scenarios. As you can see, you moving pain is textbook TMS! I did year and years of PT and it helped me.....NOT! Oh, maybe it helped for a day or two. But then the pain would be back or it would have moved. I remember coming in TEARS because my knee would get better, then I'd be limping on the OTHER knee the next week. It was ridiculous!
    My last few appointments I just told the PT - give me a massage. And she did. :) That was several years ago.
    And yes, I encourage you to journal about your feelings. That's what fueling the pain. As long as your journaling about the pain - TMS is having it's way - keeping you distracted! But of course, you will find your way in this - the trick is to keep moving forward. As you quiet your mind, you will tap into that inner wisdom and she will not lead you astray. Just listen and keep moving forward. You can beat this! You really can!
    The business is my hubby's accounting practice. He is a CPA. I do all the administrative work and some bookkeeping. I'm also an organizer and a writer too so I wear many hats. :)
    What do you do?
  10. karinabrown

    karinabrown Well known member

    Hi northstar.. about changes PT : I understand what you mean but have to say my experierence is that I would not matter so mutch. Don't know what
    your experience is in the outside world ( I know this sounds terrible and kinda suspicious) but I had my share of crazy remarks! :(
    to give you a idea : although healthcare is excellent in the Netherlands ( I used to think till I got my pain) some sugestions came by that really did not help
    me with my fear. When I read the stories on this website: I have to say I am surprised that most of the people did not get a clue about mind and body from
    their doctors. I must say : i did. Not in the tms" route but more in the : if you have persistent pain there is a mindlink. they told me that chronic pain
    can me the result of " the alarm went of, and now your central nervice system is going overboard" and then send me to a psychosomatic phsyio:
    she help me in some ways but the key of this therapy is not to get better from pain : but : to stop fighting against it : and the focus is on acceptance.
    And beside the fact i never was really sure i was psysically okay : i could not accept the fact i could not walk . and all that has connetion to that wich is actually averything.
    so i tried hard with the acceptance : was pretty bad at it o_Oso kept struggling. Then she suggested i start using perhaps a wheelchair
    and a mobility scooter (hope this is the right word in English : did put it on google translate) then i freaked out and understood i did not want to do that because
    i felt like giving up on myself. i know this is difficult stuff : even my husband (who is great and very helpful supportive and loving) suggestes this carefully.
    it would make my world a bit bigger" Yes i would, but i cannot do it : try going for little walks and keep searching for things to get better.
    And totally going away from the subject : remarks from people was the subject (and therapists. doctors) so : my doctor adviced me to
    stop looking for a solution and go on with my life as good as possible. One neigbour suggested i could maybe let my foot be removed : because
    she saw an athlete on tv who ran a wordrecord with a artificial leg..( the last one absolutely is in my top ten:() so had my share of helpful" remarks
    and crazy advices. And the scarry part is : they all mean well.

    so conclusion: no not ready to stop..not ready for wheelchair..and not ready for diagnoses FM..and yes maybe still fighting but this is also my nature.
    have to move forward even if i don't go forward that much anymore. Acceptance scares me : i think i my mind this means : never get any better
    But on the other hand : must admit i do see myself as a disabled person..wich is scary to say outloud
    could use some comments from you on that one! fighting..acceptance...how to break that circle

    Your work sounds like fun : doing many different things : like a true woman can multi task:)are you working from your home?

    You asked me what do i do ? I went back to study one year ago : going for a bachelor degree : Communication and multimedia design.
    Study at home mostly wich is fine now in my situation. Before my psyscial shit : was working partime as a graphic designer from home + partime
    outside the house as a secretary. Because of the pain i lost that job. First two years could not design anymore. was a big nightmare.
    A soon as a could sit a bit more : i knew i had to start a project that kept my mind of pain an being miserable 24 hrs a day.
    that has worked good : i love my study . it was a dream for long and am gratefull can do it know. Atlhough having hard time
    being home without collegeas etc. It is lonely. Chronic pain is lonely because it robs you of all sords of social stuff.
    Also that i am trying to pick up.

    So sorry i am typing this long! hope your not already tired of me?

    hope my english is good enough so far!


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