low back pain and ddd

J

jericho163

New Member
Hi.
My first post here. LBP for 10 mths and just went for a minimally invasive surgery called biacuplasty for degenerative disc disease.

Helped a bit and doctor said it shouldnt be. He was expecting close to 100% recovery.

I had all of sarno books and actually read them before surgery. Tried to implement those teachings by myself but didnt succeed. I keep thinking structural and even went for discography before the surgery. DIscography was positive so by right the op should help alot more.

I am now re reading sarno books, because I always see myself as a tms guy and satisfied many of the book descriptions. What is holding me back is the fact that i keep thinking it is structural that is why the discography was positive. But then why didnt the surgery succeed in making me pain free? I am confused.
 
Hi, jericho. Surgery can be what Dr. Sarno calls a placebo. A doctor and the operation can make us feel good... that we have done
something about a pain. But if the pain doesn't go away afterward, it most often means the pain was not really structural but TMS from our emotions.
The pain may be real and Xrays or MRIs can indicate some structural problem, but it could have been caused by TMS.

If you haven't yet, I suggest you start the Structured Educational Program, free at the subforum on this web site. It is a short daily guide to discovering the emotional causes of TMS.

Dr. Sarno says disc problems do not cause pain. Our subconscious sends us the pain to get us to discover the emotional reasons we have pain.

Read the success stories in that subforum and watch the videos there and also on Youtube, to get a big boost of TMS knowledge and assurance
that you are going to heal.
 
"Degenerative disc disease", as Dr. Sarno points out, is a one-size-fits-all diagnosis that is essentially meaningless since everyone begins to have it after they're 20 years old. Huge numbers of people out there with DDD who have absolutely no LBP too. Again, as Dr. Sarno points out, the slight structural irregularies associated with so-called DDD provide an ideal location for the mind to locate pain which is essentially psychological in origin. For instance, I knew a ranger at a local state park who used to run out in the woods everyday after work. Never had any pain until one day he developed excruciating LBP that prevented him exercising at all. He went to docs and they gave him an MRI and, guess what?, one of his vertebra was riding forward out of place in his spinal column. Sure enough, the docs blamed his pain on this congenital spinal abnormality without ever mentioning that the ranger was born with this condition and had been running for 30 years with it without any pain. What had happened recently just before the onset of his symptoms? His adoring wife and the mother of his two lovely daughters had died of cancer! Also, the ranger was about to retire and the same time his daughters had moved away to Colorado. Triple abandonment plus separation anxiety! After he retired the ranger went back to Hastings Law School and got himself an LLD. Voila! No more back pain. But he still has the same spinal deformity, right?

And, yes, as Walt is quick to point out, surgery - any surgery - is an extremely powerful placebo, especially if you trust and like the surgeon and believe in the procedure. But those are the same reasons witch doctors are able to effect such amazing cures out in a clearing in the Amazon jungle too. And, again, just as Walt sagely advises, begin the SEP available here on the TMS Wiki. Best place to begin even if you've had minimal invasive spinal surgery.
 
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Walt Oleksy said:
Hi, jericho. Surgery can be what Dr. Sarno calls a placebo. A doctor and the operation can make us feel good... that we have done
something about a pain. But if the pain doesn't go away afterward, it most often means the pain was not really structural but TMS from our emotions.
The pain may be real and Xrays or MRIs can indicate some structural problem, but it could have been caused by TMS.

If you haven't yet, I suggest you start the Structured Educational Program, free at the subforum on this web site. It is a short daily guide to discovering the emotional causes of TMS.

Dr. Sarno says disc problems do not cause pain. Our subconscious sends us the pain to get us to discover the emotional reasons we have pain.

Read the success stories in that subforum and watch the videos there and also on Youtube, to get a big boost of TMS knowledge and assurance
that you are going to heal.
Click to expand...
Jericho,
You probably think it's structural because you are new to the TMS theory. I've been a member since 3/14/15, and haven't advanced at all! What I have discovered is that there are some members who will not deviate from J. Sarno's methods, and that is their right. But with Dr. Scott Brady, Howard Shubiner, and even james Alexander, there are a lot of variations on the theme! I started out only following John Sarno but, not getting the results I needed. I found another web site (PLEASE AVOID GOING THERE UNTIL YOU BELIEVE TMS,AND YOU AREN'T STRUCTURALLY INJURED). :). What I found out is that some people only get better with J. Sarno's technique, and some try his methods and go nowhere!. So, they read Scott Brady,follow his protocol, and they recover! I would be accused by the Sarno people of not adhering to his program because I don't benefit from journaling, I fail to see how drudging up junk from 30 years ago will help ME, I don't live 30 years ago, I live here and now so for me, journaling upsets me. But, I will close with saying that you have to believe that you are structurally sound! I would educate myself,and keep doing so....go see a tms Dr. But believe,believe!
Hang in there, also start the SEP program on this forum.
Mark
 
Yes, Markus, journaling a la Dr Sarno may in fact serve very much the same purpose as an operation: a distraction from emotions, like unconscious rage, that might be too threatening to face directly. Journaling does make you aware that such feelings are there even if the stuff you dig up isn't really those feelings. The whole point after all is that they are unconscious. All the different recovery strategies, it seems to me, operate under the general heading of behaviorist psychology and involve deprogramming habitual or obsessive ways of thinking and feeling. The big thing is finding whatever therapeutic strategy works for you at relieving psychologically induced pain.
 
BruceMC said:
Yes, Markus, journaling a la Dr Sarno may in fact serve very much the same purpose as an operation: a distraction from emotions, like unconscious rage, that might be too threatening to face directly. Journaling does make you aware that such feelings are there even if the stuff you dig up isn't really those feelings. The whole point after all is that they are unconscious. All the different recovery strategies, it seems to me, operate under the general heading of behaviorist psychology and involve deprogramming habitual or obsessive ways of thinking and feeling. The big thing is finding whatever therapeutic strategy works for you at relieving psychologically induced pain.
Click to expand...
Yes, some find it really works (journaling), others don't. It does not work for me to go back to 1972...I was 10 lol! But when I journal, it has to be about current stressors. Keep up the good work
Jericho.
Mark
 
Markus said:
Yes, some find it really works (journaling), others don't. It does not work for me to go back to 1972...I was 10 lol! But when I journal, it has to be about current stressors. Keep up the good work
Jericho.
Mark
Click to expand...
Jericho, please get a letter from a Dr. that you are structurally sound. Even MD'S don't give out medical advice (e.g)...yeah it sounds like tms to me!!!, please make sure that you get a green light from a physician. It will ease your mind, and help in your recovery. Since we are all in this together, it's not a competition, give yourself time to discover what works for you. The SEP is an excellent place to start.
Mark
 
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I have been to several doctors and all said I have discogenic pain. Turns out to be true because the discography was positive. However the procedure to zap those painful nerves didnt really help by a lot. Yes the disc is not painful now, but it has never been the main concern.

Main concern is actually the mild annoying spasms in the lower back. Sometimes it can move to the mid back, sometimes it can make the sacrum hurt. The spasm in the lower back is the most constant. Sometimes there is some scatica. MRI shows disc slightly touching the right sided nerve, however the scatica is always on the left leg?!

I have a herniation more than 10 years ago while I was in the army in singapore. It only hurt for a few months. For more than 10 years I was normal. I just couldnt carry like a 20kg sack of rice or it will hurt. Even then the pain goes away in 1 day.

Came last august, I was in the midst if changing my job and I was also having some issues with my wife. And to add to it, I had a 1 year old kid to deal with. I start to ache in the lower back for like once every few weeks then came one day in august the whole back was in constant spasm. I took little to none medication but decided to go for the op because it was plain disturbing.

I notice the spasm or discomfort varies in intensity in a single day. And when there is some important event coming, it will be a bad day. The funny thing is before the op, I was very nervous and suddenly for 2 days before, I was 70% improved, so I cancelled the op the first time round. The day after, the pain resumes as per normal. So I made an appointment again! And guess what, the day of surgery I was once again 70% improved. But decided to go for it anyway , knowing the pain will come back.

Not sure whether is structural or tms. The doctor couldnt explain why I wasnt feeling near perfect after the op.
 
jericho163 said:
...Came last august, I was in the midst if changing my job and I was also having some issues with my wife. And to add to it, I had a 1 year old kid to deal with.

... when there is some important event coming, it will be a bad day.

...The funny thing is before the op, I was very nervous and suddenly for 2 days before, I was 70% improved...
Click to expand...

Check out the Rahe-Holmes list of stressful life events that can cause TMS dis-ease:


You likely felt better before the op because of the placebo effect from the hope you had that the procedure would fix the problem.
 
Tennis Tom said:
Check out the Rahe-Holmes list of stressful life events that can cause TMS dis-ease:

You likely felt better before the op because of the placebo effect from the hope you had that the procedure would fix the problem.
Click to expand...

Ditto. Just like T. Tom says above. The too obvious correlation between your flare ups and emotionally stressful life events sounds like a dead ringer for TMS.
 
Hi, sometimes is hard for me to decide whether is structural or TMS.

For example, when I sit down i feel uncomfortable. Structural? Some chairs look the same but feel way better than others and I can last much longer. TMS? If I read the stupid internet for symptoms of DDD, I seem to fufill all the symptoms. Structural? If I read Sarno, it can also explain those symptoms. TMS?

That is the hardest part for me right now.

My life is less stressful now but the back pain/discomfort/spasms remain. The day my back pain started last year, I got it with a dizzy spell but it went away in a month. Weird things happen...
 
BruceMC said:
Ditto. Just like T. Tom says above. The too obvious correlation between your flare ups and emotionally stressful life events sounds like a dead ringer for TMS.
Click to expand...
I am always cautious when an individual says it sounds like tms....if you hear those words find out. It is completely unorthodox for people, experienced or not to diagnose you without an exam! So, to be safe if a member says sounds like tms....get a confirmation!
 
I live in Asia, so there is no TMS doctors around...

Anyway my symptoms are mild but constant/nagging. All the success stories I read, people seem to have very drastic symptoms.
 
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Markus said:
I am always cautious when an individual says it sounds like tms....if you hear those words find out. It is completely unorthodox for people, experienced or not to diagnose you without an exam! So, to be safe if a member says sounds like tms....get a confirmation!
Click to expand...

Hi Jericho,

To allay Markus' concern that we are practicing medicine without a license at this board, you do understand that I'm a tennis player and not a doctor. But, this is a TMS Forum and many people come here after going to allopathic doctors, who have never heard of TMS, and ask us here, if it could be TMS? I'm sure this site has some boilerplate that says as much. In the end we are all responsible for making our own decisions regarding our mindbody health after gathering as much information as we can. I'm not charging ANYTHING for my thoughts, but if you would like to send me a can of tennis balls, I won't object.

Cheers,
tt
 
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Hi Jericho,
just got your PM. What I can I say. Have faith. If you had gone for surgery and the pain is still there, what does that tell you?
It takes a lot to believe in TMS. Honestly, if I had discovered TMS earlier, I would probably dismissed it as bull@@@@.

But because I had taken the long journey of trying everything from western and eastern treatment and even surgery, my mind is prepared to accept it. In a way, I had no choice!

Same like you, I ponder a lot over why the disc theory doesn't make sense, but yet I didn't have a answer then. Discovering TMS is not a end all solution. But it give me something else to think about, to leverage on and to work on. Afterall, I can't possible see a doctor every time the pain occur, or worse, go for repeated surgery....and as proven, to no avail.

I am still figuring things out too. Just had a attack 1 month ago and recovering now. When the pain strike, its hard to believe its tension, but then, if you think about it, what else could it be?
 
jericho163 said:
I have been to several doctors and all said I have discogenic pain. Turns out to be true because the discography was positive. However the procedure to zap those painful nerves didnt really help by a lot. Yes the disc is not painful now, but it has never been the main concern.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you have already been examined by several traditional MDs who proposed structural diagnoses and performed surgery to no avail.
 
I never thought I will be back here.

Ok i had a fusion at the bad disc. And of course I still have the similar symptoms. Surgery didnt quite work.

I am desperate and this really makes me believe in TMS again.


Sometimes it is still really hard.... structural or tms....

When i first herniate my disc 15 years ago, I always have some minor back pain upon exertion like carrying loads. That is structural or TMS. Maybe all these doesnt matter now. I had the surgery and still.....
 
I know now is not the time for regrets.

I actually felt good the days before surgery. I always feel good when I have made appointments for injections or whatever. TMS shouting right in my face. However the actual surgery and what not dont have any effect on me? No placebo. Making appointments has. Weird.

Stuck. Trying Sarno.
 
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