1. Alan has completed the new Pain Recovery Program. To read or share it, use this updated link: https://www.tmswiki.org/forum/painrecovery/
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
Our TMS drop-in chat is tomorrow (Saturday) from 3:00 PM - 4:00 PM Eastern (now on US Standard Time) . It's a great way to get quick and interactive peer support, with Enrique as your host. Look for the red Chat flag on top of the menu bar!

Joint popping and noises

Discussion in 'Support Subforum' started by Shanshu Vampyr, May 28, 2012.

  1. Shanshu Vampyr

    Shanshu Vampyr Well known member

    Can someone who has had success with random joint popping and noises and stuff maybe post a success story? To date, beyond the pain and the stiffness and the "tendonitis"-type feelings in various places, this is the hardest stumbling block I have had in convincing myself I have not done anything to hurt myself.

    And even if the sensations themselves are benign, if someone could post about how they stopped TMS-obsessing about them, that would be helpful too. To date, the hardest obstacle I have had in overcoming symptoms is the sudden rush of fear and terror I get when an unexpected noise happens and it destroys my calm, making me think I'm really, terribly damaged again all of the sudden. Particularly when awakening in the early morning.
  2. quasar731

    quasar731 Well known member

    Hi Sanshu,

    I am fairly new in terms of dealing with TMS. How long have you been working on yourself? I can empathize with the experiencing of 'certain symptoms' that have the 'potential' to disrupt my equanimity. Like you I also have found myself questioning...am I doing the right thing? Do I have this disorder or am I really injured? Especially when one diligently follows the program and becomes aware of the 'mind psychological strategy'. When I do so, like you, I can feel the anxiety levels going upwards. However, I take heed of the advice that Monte Hueftle has extended. I quote a small excerpt from Monte regarding your question.

    I wish you health and success as you walk this journey!
    G.R. likes this.
  3. Shanshu Vampyr

    Shanshu Vampyr Well known member

    Hi Quasar,

    *sigh* How long have I been at this? Difficult for me to answer that question without the "calendar phenomenon" popping up. I've suffered from the chronic pains of different sorts in different areas since 1/2011. I've been on the TMS part of the journey since about 7/2011, which makes it almost a year without finding absolution. A journey that has taught me a lot--and I wouldn't exchange the insights for the world, and I'm taking baby steps towards addressing things in my life that may or may not complicate or contribute to the TMS--but it is, of course, frustrating.

    My TMS therapist--Alan Gordon--through his expertise with the psychological machinations of the TMS mind (he's suffered from it himself), opines that the fear and the obsession and what he calls the "preoccupying thoughts" are part of the subconscious, part of the distraction strategy. I seem to have that in spades.

    I worry about that, too. When I expose to deep, painful childhood and earlier life experiences with Alan, I do wonder whether I'm feeding the wolf or lancing the boil. It's easy to play the game of "Sarno says", but he does say 1/3 TMS is past, 1/3 TMS is present, and 1/3 TMS is current life stress. Which do you choose to work on when?

    I KNOW I'm not the only one who's constantly buffeted by the psychological insults of TMS. Yet I think it's part of the syndrome to feel fear and to feel doubt and to feel really, really alone (or maybe to feel fear and to feel doubt especially).

    What has given me the most mileage in terms of just DEALING with the constant strain is paying attention to mindfulness. There's a thread somewhere here about "Why do some people not get along with Dr. Sarno's methods", and there's a page somewhere about a person named Skizzik's recovery being derailed by lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of fear. Yet ultimately he did it. What I'm picking up in both threads is that there's an element to it of just living life again, chronic pain or no chronic pain, permanent or not permanent, damn it all. I feel that if I stop paying attention to the pain, it will eventually peter out. To get there I have to get comfortable with the idea that I may NEVER know what the outcome is. In order to live a happy, fulfilled life, I need to give up on the idea that I can only live a happy, fulfilled life if I rid myself of this chronic issue. True surrender is where it needs to be for me, and yet being intensely impatient and perfectionistic, I get frustrated when I try to get there by hitting myself over the head with the ACCEPTANCE and SURRENDER baseball bat.

    Bottom line: It's not entirely clear to me how this PERSONAL journey will play out. I'm doing what I can with the tools that I have and the skills that a lifetime of living have given me, maladaptive or not. But: when I'm not in the throes of a fear jag, I know I can get there somehow.

    Wishing you the best.
    G.R. likes this.
  4. quasar731

    quasar731 Well known member

    G'day Shanshu,

    You have struck so many good lines on your message above. Well done for being open about your emotions and for finishing with a hopeful attitude even when the going gets tough. I believe that the people in this journey are a bunch of wonderful and courageous human beings. Unless one experiences pain induced suffering, one never will know the depth of physical, psychological and emotional struggle involved in it. The very few times that I have experienced 'zero' pain made me realized what an amazing space that one is. The awareness of pain has made me aware of the beauty of being pain free.

    I quoted your last paragraph because it is very significant on this sojourn of TMS healing. And, for what I can gather you have been in this journey long enough to have learned sufficiently to understand what we are dealing with. Your knowledge of TMS is one of the tools that you must use at times when the going gets tough. Expect that our subconscious will throw at us the kitchen sink. But we stay with what our frontal cortex informs us about the 'psychological strategy' and its ability to derail our emotional state.

    I am listening to the Master Practice by Monte Hueftle. He stresses many points which you mentioned in your message. It is important to hold on onto hope against the sometimes contradictory reality, as you do at the end of your post. We believe the TMS story and that 'we' are being healed (present continuous) not matter how long it takes. We trust that layer by layer we are 'continuously' chipping away an inner fortress built over many years from layers of tough cognitive processes, and toxic emotions. It is like when we put on extra weight, it takes long to reach dangerous levels and it takes that long or more to get back to an optimal healthy weight.

    There is nothing that happens instantaneously except on virtual reality or TV soapies. And of course, as we breakthrough from a long-standing cocoon, we are subconsciously fearful of 'the unknown future'. Even when at a conscious level we may not seem to detect that fear sometimes. I am convinced that at the subconscious level, to experience a new reality (even healing) and its implications it may cause a degree of primal fear. So some times we are overwhelmed by the assaulting fears coming from the 'unmanned subconscious projection room'.

    Nevertheless, against hope, I have to agree with you that when the symptoms struck, and when they cause suffering and even disability, it is a tough walk. Denying such experience would be unrealistic. To keep the faith in those moments it takes enormous amount of courage, determination and blind faith. Hang in there mate!

    The cartoonist Leunig has written a beautiful poem on the two most fundamental and primal emotions that drive the human race. I share it with you.

    Forest likes this.
  5. Justina

    Justina Peer Supporter

    Heya Shanshu, I have a lot of crepitus (joint noise). And I mean a lot. My knees, hips, shoulders and ankles all crack multiple times a day. My left knee in particular used to be very weak when I first got out of bed and I'd have to click it into place half a dozen times each morning, but that faded a long with a lot of my other pain when I started working on TMS. My wrists still crack every single time I rotate them. Yes, this is caused by wearing of the cartilage and my mild hyperlaxity which allows the joints to move out of place. But there's no reason for it to hurt chronically. Two months ago when my kneecap slipped out and in (with considerable noise) I'd be limping and in pain for weeks. Yesterday it did it again and... nothing. There's no physiolotical reason for joint popping to hurt, and now that I know the noise won't hurt me it doesn't.

    I guess that doesn't really help as I don't think a handful of words will stop your anxiety about noisy joints. But they are almost always benign, and even in the rare case a joint pop causes damage your body is a healthy beast and will recover in a day or two. I hope that helps a little. :)
  6. Shanshu Vampyr

    Shanshu Vampyr Well known member

    Hi Justina,

    Thanks. Helps a little temporarily. I have seen that some people's joint noises seem to be TMS related or TMS caused. I think that helps, because when I read about your "joint hyperlaxity" I think physically in defiance of the good doctor's words. For me, I NEVER noticed joint noises prior to full blown TMS so it reinforces a TMS cause in me...it's just scary because it doesn't seem to be going away anytime soon. And this despite I know all about the conventional wisdom about painless joint noises being harmless.

    Quasar--thank you. Lots to think about. I love the poem.
  7. quasar731

    quasar731 Well known member

    No worries Shanshu,

    I am glad you enjoyed the Leunig poem.

    By the way, thinking about joints and muscles' snaps and pops, I forgot to add to my communiques to you that I too experience what is call 'tibial band snap'. It is a scary and uncomfortable noise in the hip as I rotate the femur head. The reason being that my right tibial band has been more stiff than usual because of the injury and the following surgery. As I do Pilates it is getting much better. Keeping flexible helps a lot.

    Have a healthy and symptoms free week!
  8. Shanshu Vampyr

    Shanshu Vampyr Well known member

    I thought IT band syndrome was TMS?
  9. Beach-Girl

    Beach-Girl Well known member

    Hey Shanshu:

    My knees pop all the time. It doesn't hurt, they just sound like one is walking on glass when I bend at the knees. My dad had the same thing. It doesn't bother me since it doesn't hurt. You have mentioned this popping before. Does it hurt? Or is it your anxiety (the dish running away with the spoon) that scares you about the popping noise(s)?

    You have learned a lot about TMS and I believe Alan Gordon has been a great step for you. I hear more positive and a little less anxiety in your posts. You may not see it, but we've been talking awhile and I notice. I believe too that stress is just a huge boulder to get around in order to "get there". I've suffered back pain for over 10 years. I am better since getting on the TMS wagon (12/11). I know what is going on when the pain moves. And at night I've developed a "buzzing"/ "numbness" in my left hand. Lasts for a few minutes, I remind myself "meh - just TMS trying another route. No way".

    You may not improve as fast as you like. But you say yourself you are calendar watching. Just try and stay in the moment, ascertain whether or not this "popping" is simply a new symptom to distract you, and keep at this.

    I would simply LOVE it if you and I BOTH woke up one morning soon, had no pain, and ran to our computers to shout it to the world. May take awhile, but we're going to get there.

  10. quasar731

    quasar731 Well known member

    I did not even think that IT band being affected by TMS but it makes sense. Thank you Shanshu

Share This Page