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Joe Dispenza and Ramtha's School of Enlightenment

Discussion in 'General Discussion Subforum' started by Forest, Jan 24, 2016.

  1. Forest

    Forest Beloved Grand Eagle

    Hi everyone,

    In last week's drop in chat, Joe Dispenza came up and I shared some information about him and how I feel he doesn't have any significant credentials, but appears to have learned most of what he writes about from a cult that he used to be part of (or what appears to me to be a cult). People seemed very interested, so I thought I'd share the information more widely.

    For those who don't know, Dispenza has been a chiropractor since 1988 in the tiny town of Yelm, WA. He encourages people to call in Dr. Dispenza or Dr. Joe, but his only postgraduate degree is his training to be a chiropractor (ugh).

    For at least 18 years, Dispenza has been a student of a cult called "Ramtha's School of Enlightenment." In fact, he became one of their most highly ranked instructors. However, in 2006 it appears he may have been fired, perhaps because he wouldn't sign a nondisclosure form that they wanted him to sign.

    Ramtha's School of Enlightenment (RSE) is run by someone named J.Z. Knight. She claims that she can "channel" a 35,000 year old "Lemurian" warrior named Ramtha. Basically, as I see it, she charges people $100-$2200 per seat and then gets up on stage, pretends to enter a trance, and then pretends to be this ancient warrior and "teaches" people. It's all quite wacky.

    JZ has made a great deal of money from selling her "Ramtha" appearances to gullible people, though. Born into a family of migrant farm workers she sold cable TV before starting this business. Now, she lives in a 12,000 square foot mansion in Yelm, near Dispenza's chiropractic practice and on the 50 acre complex that houses RSE.

    After learning all of this, it's hard to take Dispenza seriously. There's a lot more to write, but I don't have time to post it tonight and will have to do so tomorrow. Instead, I'll just leave you with an article on RSE that I got from Alternet. It's a fascinating read and rather disturbing.

    I should also say that in this post and everything that follows in this entire multi-page thread (and in fact everything I write on this site), what I present is my opinion and my understanding of the facts. In other words, nothing is presented as facts, but merely my opinion or my understanding of the facts. The reader must consult other sources to draw their own conclusions.

    I would hope that the previous paragraph would be obvious. I mention it to remove any doubt because JZ has sued several of her critics (usually, over a contract that I gather she makes her students sign). Continuing on this theme of doing my best to provide myself legal cover in this nonprofit exercise, let me stress that my goal here is simply to exercise my freedom of speech and I of course want to follow all relevant laws. If JZ or anyone affiliated with her feels that I have posted anything unlawful, please contact me and I will remove it immediately, possibly after obtaining legal advice to verify your opinion.

    Ramtha Riled
    Susy Buchanan
    May 23, 2014
    Since 1989, a woman who calls herself J.Z. Knight has drawn tens of thousands of followers, including Hollywood celebrities, to her Ramtha School of Enlightenment in Yelm, Wash., where she says she channels a 35,000-year-old “Lemurian warrior.” The New Age cult leader also savages Catholics, Mexicans, Jews and Jehovah.

    YELM, Wash. — It’s March 2011 at the Ramtha School of Enlightenment (RSE) in this rapidly growing town just outside of Olympia. Hundreds of truth seekers pack into a converted horse arena to hear a 35,000-year-old Lemurian warrior speak the wisdom of the ages. The crowd is yearning for super-consciousness and enlightenment; what they get is drunken ramblings peppered with curse words. There’s no Kool-Aid served, just red wine, bottles and bottles of it. Wine ceremonies, which have been going on at RSE since 1996, are significant because students believe wine grapes were brought to Earth by extraterrestrials 450,000 years ago.

    The blonde on stage is J.Z. (for Judith Zebra) Knight, a 65-year-old former rodeo queen and cable TV saleswoman. The words coming from her mouth aren’t hers, the assembled crowd believes, but rather those of the ethereal being she channels, Ramtha the Enlightened One. Knight goes back and forth between herself and the supposedly channeled Ramtha.


    During the 16 or so hours the students spend in a spiritual drinking game (students must drink every time Ramtha/Knight does), Knight will disparage Catholics, gay people, Mexicans, organic farmers, and Jews.

    “Fuck God’s chosen people! I think they have earned enough cash to have paid their way out of the goddamned gas chambers by now,” she says as members of the audience snicker. There are also titters when she declares Mexicans “breed like rabbits” and are “poison,” that all gay men were once Catholic priests, and that organic farmers have questionable hygiene.

    These are not the kind of cosmic revelations that have drawn students to Knight for 38 years. For the most part, RSE students are thoughtful and well-educated, not apt to embrace a bigoted guru. For decades, the message had been more about finding the god within than disparaging minorities, and the blend of science and New Age Gnosticism made J.Z. Knight millions well before the drunken homophobic, anti-Catholic, anti-Semitic racist rants began to make their way into her preachings.

    What happened at RSE would have stayed at RSE had it not been for the Internet. In 2012, livestreamed videos of Ramtha’s hate speech were posted to the Web, first by ex-students Virginia Coverdale and David McCarthy, then by a libertarian-leaning think tank called the Freedom Foundation that is based in Olympia. The excerpts from that wine ceremony left Thurston County residents shocked and wondering if there was a more sinister side to their kooky neighborhood cult.

    Was there a hate group lurking in “The Pride of the Prairie,” as Yelm calls itself? Knight blamed Coverdale, who had slept with Knight’s boyfriend, as a spurned lover, and the libertarian-leaning think tank, the Freedom Foundation, as politically motivated.

    But the scandal caused by the videos embarrassed Democratic candidates who had taken a total of $70,000 in campaign donations from Knight. “I am appalled by Ms. Knight’s outrageous anti-Mexican, anti-Catholic raging,” said Thurston County (Wash.) Commissioner Sandra Romero. “These vile, racist, and divisive comments against responsible and caring people have no place in Thurston County, or anywhere else.” Romero ended up giving Knight’s donation to nonprofits benefitting Latinos.

    Through it all, Knight has ignored requests for a retraction and maintained that the videos were maliciously edited and taken out of context.

    Melissa and Steve Genson, farmers and restaurateurs who also operate an online newspaper, were equally outraged, and Melissa, a CPA and fraud investigator by training, began an intense investigation into activities at RSE. “JZ Knight shrieks abuse and ridicule at her followers, and hate speech against Catholics, Jews, gays, and others — all welcomed with audience cheers,” Melissa wrote in one of a series of critical articles on RSE for the South Thurston Journal.

    Raising Ramtha
    J.Z. Knight was born Judith Darlene Hampton in 1946 in Roswell, N.M., one of eight children in a family of migrant farm workers. In her autobiography, 1987’s A State of Mind: My Story, she says a Yaqui Indian woman told her mother that baby Judith would one day see what no one else could. In 1977, that prediction came true, as Knight tells it. She and her first husband heard about “Pyramid Power” — the belief that pyramids modeled on those in Egypt could sharpen razor blades and preserve food through mummification — and spent a rather manic weekend constructing paper pyramids and placing various objects (cheese, dog food) inside.

    “My kitchen was looking more like a wholesale warehouse than a kitchen, but it was worth it,” Knight wrote. “We retired at three a.m., exhausted.”

    The following day, Knight jokingly grabbed one of the paper pyramids, placed it on her head, and Ramtha, a seven-foot-tall apparition of golden glitter clad in a purple robe, appeared in her kitchen. “I am Ramtha the Enlightened One. I have come to help you over the ditch,” she says he told her, and shortly thereafter Knight was in business.

    She began channeling Ramtha in public in 1979, presenting his wisdom nationally and internationally through workshops and retreats called “Ramtha Dialogues.” Early students included Shirley MacLaine (who broke off contact with Knight 30 years ago, a spokesman for the actress and author said), and, RSE officials say, actors Richard Chamberlain and Mike Farrell. Actress Salma Hayek and former “Dynasty” star Linda Evans are current students, they add.

    That same year, she purchased an 80-acre ranch in Yelm, where she would breed Arabian horses for a time, build herself a 12,800-square-foot chateau, subsequently sell the horses, remodel the 15,000-square-foot horse arena, and open what would become RSE in 1989.

    Based in Yelm, Wash., J.Z. Knight has spent the years since 1979 travelling the globe and channeling “Ramtha the Enlightened One.” It has made her a millionaire. COURTESY OF RAMTHA SCHOOL OF ENLIGHTENMENT

    The location has significance that goes beyond cheap land. The region, according to RSE, was actually part of ancient Lemuria during Ramtha’s lifetime, before he migrated to Atlantis and freed his people from tyranny at the age of 14, then went on to conquer two-thirds of the world at the head of an army of 2.5 million. After being run through with a sword during battle, Ramtha sat on a rock and meditated for seven years, became enlightened, taught his body to vibrate at a high frequency and ascended, like Jesus, RSE’s website explains.

    “Since the school was founded in 1989, more than 86,000 people worldwide have attended RSE events including about 7,500 in Washington State,” Knight’s Manhattan Beach, Calif.-based PR firm told the Intelligence Report. About 2,000 students live near Yelm, which has a total population of close to 7,000. The students are drawn in by the four tenets of Ramtha’s philosophy: the statement, ‘You are god’; the mandate to make known the unknown; the concept that consciousness and energy create the nature of reality; the challenge to conquer yourself.

    The Nazis Cheer
    But Knight also teaches students to be sovereign, to hoard gold and prepare food and supplies to survive for two years after one of the natural disasters that she often predicts will hit the earth. Knight as Ramtha is also quoted on the neo-Nazi Web forum Stormfront, where her writings on the “New World Order” are much appreciated and quoted under headings such as “Jews were responsible for causing WW1 & 2.”

    “It took a lot to get this country into the First World War, because no one wanted to get into it. And so the Graymen, owning most of the media ... do you know what the media is? I have learned that term!” wrote “Ramtha” in 1999’s Ramtha: The White Book (which also carries an introduction by Knight). “The Graymen own them all; you know, the papers you read, the box you watch, the magazines you thumb through, the radio waves you listen to.”

    In 2004, RSE students produced an infomercial for the school disguised as a documentary called “What the Bleep do we Know!?” The film grossed $10 million in the United States but was panned by critics. “New Age hooey disguised as a scientific documentary about quantum physics,” is how Jack Garner of the Rochester [N.Y.] Democrat and Chronicle summed it up.

    Appearing in the film is Irishman Míceál Ledwith, a former monsignor in the Catholic Church, adviser to the pope, and president at St. Patrick’s College, Maynooth, an Irish seminary dating back to 1518.

    Ledwith resigned abruptly in 1994 after allegations of pedophilia, which were later settled out of court, and was defrocked by the Vatican in 2005.

    Ledwith, who is part of Knight’s inner circle and has been a student at RSE since 1989, can be seen in the full-length, 16-hour video of the 2011 wine ceremony, where he takes the stage with Knight about seven hours in, propping himself up on Ramtha’s ornate throne.

    “Fuck Jehovah,” Knight proclaims, speaking in Ramtha’s voice and outing Jesus as a fellow alien who came to this planet to basically teach the same things. From the same stage, Ledwith denounces the biblical God as “fickle, capricious, psychotic, neurotic, and insecure, and we are supposed to believe that he is the creator God.” Knight adds that God is a “psychotic, insecure son of a bitch,” which draws a chuckle from the former priest. Then they dance.

    Of Orbs and Soap Bubbles
    Promoting Ramtha is serious business. Knight oversees 80 employees. In the past, students have paid $1,000 or more to participate in events where crowds often reached a thousand people or more. The school currently holds about 50 events a year, has published more than 600 books, CDs and videos, and has material translated into 18 languages.

    Knight is fiercely protective of her kingdom. When a woman in Berlin, Germany, Judith Ravell, claimed that she was also channeling Ramtha, Knight took her to court and won the copyright to Ramtha’s teachings. Later, after another woman, Whitewind Weaver, who had attended a dozen events at RSE, imparted Ramtha’s teachings in an event of her own, Knight sued her as well, and was awarded $10,000 in 2008.

    Currently, Knight is involved in legal action against those who released the hate-filled video clips to the Internet in 2012. The efforts of both Coverdale of Yelm and McCarthy of New Zealand to expose the darker side of the Enlightened One have landed them in a courtroom facing Knight. They are supported by a growing online community of ex-RSE students critical of Knight, who they describe as a dangerous cult leader. Coverdale is appealing a $600,000 judgment against her for releasing the videos, while McCarthy has a court date in May.

    “The whole idea of Ramtha seemed absolute nonsense. But the RSE students I met were idealistic, intelligent, well educated and very caring, hardly the sort cult members typify, and besides I could just walk away anytime. I was convinced to just give it a try,” says McCarthy, who left the school in 1995 after seven years.

    “Most people who attend the RSE flowery love bomb introductory events will be drawn in by very appealing concepts and promises. The promoters will appear smart, happy and very supportive. Nothing like typical cult behavior and recruitment techniques would be recognizable,” he adds. “The trap is set by J.Z. Knight, and those attending are clueless to the cult persuasion techniques they could fall prey to.”

    It’s early March 2014, and about 30 students have come to Yelm for a “Beginner’s Event” at a cost of $450 apiece. They’ve brought sleeping bags and pillows, and are sprawled out on the floor waiting for instruction. It begins, as always, with a blast of upbeat pop music, which means the students are to assemble and dance. The schedule is rigorous, from dawn until well past dusk. Most of them sleep in the arena or camp on the compound. There are live lectures from some of the seven RSE teachers anointed by Knight, video lessons from Knight, and a number of spiritual exercises designed to expand the mind.

    The music builds to a crescendo as students sit in the lotus position doing “C&E,” a meditative breathing technique which involves clenching the buttocks and thighs followed by forced breaths that make the arena sound like a pit of snakes all hissing in unison. Some students tremble and shout with ecstasy. After about 15 minutes, they don their rubber boots and rain jackets, collect two different cards with drawings of objects or concepts they covet, and proceed to a two-acre fenced paddock. They pin their cards to various places around the paddock, don their blindfolds, spin around and then attempt to find their own cards using only their minds to guide them.

    The previous evening, the small class of initiates was joined by an international crowd of around 400 local students — including many young children — who filled the arena, dancing together with joyful abandon as the music throbbed at what was undoubtedly the most happening night spot in the entire county.

    During the five-day retreat they’ll learn about orbs, that cabbages scream when you cut them, that the spirit looks like a soap bubble, and that Ramtha has the ability to conjure up spirits such as “Mothman” (along with photographic proof).

    They’ll see photos of grinning “ramsters,” as the townies call them, holding up checks for various amounts from Ramtha-inspired wins in the lottery or at the nearby casino, and be lectured on quantum physics. There’s not a whisper of hate, Ramtha is not in attendance (although staff tell students he is always here), and toasts are made with water glasses.

    Several times a year, up to 1,000 students flock to the 80-acre Ramtha School of Enlightenment, where they live in tents and receive doses of cosmic wisdom they believe are imparted by an ancient “Lemurian warrior.” JEFF ADAMS

    Satire or Simply Slurs?
    To this day, there have been no apologies or retractions of the hate speech that has caused RSE such embarrassment. One is not needed, her defenders insist, pointing out that Knight employs lapsed Catholics, former Jews, a lesbian and a Mexican-born man as part of her inner circle. They say her remarks were taken out of context, invoking the example of satirist Steven Colbert telling his audience that the poor should be euthanized. One RSE teacher, Jaime Leal-Anaya, Mexican by birth, explains that Jesus was also taken out of context in the early days of Christianity, and that people mistook his followers for cannibals when Jesus told them to eat of his body, and drink of his blood.

    Knight herself consents to answer questions by telephone on day four of the Beginner’s Event. Although she’s at home in the mansion next door, a recent channeling session in Mexico and the death of a beloved pet have left her bedridden.

    Unlike her staff, Knight maintains that the offending videos were heavily edited. “We have a very sophisticated videography streaming department. We know what edited looks like,” she says, claiming she would never go through a “multimillion dollar lawsuit” if there were any truth to the clips. Her litigiousness, she explains, stems from trying to protect her business and company secrets. “We are a revered school around the world, I was part of the president’s re-election committee, we are proactive in education, and this is not who we are.”

    Knight dismisses Coverdale as a woman who “couldn’t keep the man she was after for more than three weeks and hated me for it for the rest of her life. I never had a conversation with her. She’s somebody who wants to be famous and is a very jealous and envious, controlling person that thought they could make some money off of me,” she claims. “People who say those things, we are taught by the Ram, are really speaking about themselves, it’s the Jung concept of the shadow.”

    Knight vehemently objects to her school being labeled as a cult, which she considers another four-letter word. She says she’s tired after 38 years of channeling Ramtha, and plans to retire from the business side of things and write books.

    By all appearances, that doesn’t mean she’s planning to go easy on Coverdale and McCarthy. “Those tapes were illegal from the get-go, and that they were distributed, edited and chopped to make us look like bigots and hateful people when nothing could be further from the truth, nothing!” she charges. “I will not let other people rewrite our history!”

    Coverdale, for her part, is not backing down. “Although admittedly, as a rule, the cult does not have as one of its ideologies hating Mexicans or Jewish people or gay people or Catholics, J.Z. Knight herself is proving she does as her [drinking] increases and she is unable to keep up the love act she had going in the ’80s. It is beyond hate speech,” Coverdale says.

    “In America, there are many First Amendment rights I agree with, even if I disagree with what is being said. Where I get concerned is when you have a large group of people that believe they are hearing from a powerful enlightened entity, creating an ‘us versus them’ situation.”
  2. BruceMC

    BruceMC Beloved Grand Eagle

    It's just as I suspect: Yelm, Washington is just across the highway from Evergreen State College in Olympia. Bet they're all part of the same group I locked horns with when I worked for Pacific Northwest Outward Bound School, which gets many of its instructors from Evergreen. As my friend 'Zappa' Dave Austin once put it, "If I'd known you were going up there, I would have warned you about those people!"

    Here's a clip on Washing State T.V. about their goings on:

    Last edited: Jan 25, 2016
    North Star and Forest like this.
  3. Boston Redsox

    Boston Redsox Well Known Member

    Thx Forest....I always love when chiro want to be called Dr . Great post shows you how weak the human intellect is
  4. Forest

    Forest Beloved Grand Eagle

    Thanks for the link to that news clip, Bruce. Very interesting. It's amazing how helpful video can be in terms of helping you understand things.

    For example, it's sad to see how tipsy JZ looks in the clip. I suspect that it's because she's at one of the "wine ceremonies" described in the article above:
    The news clip also features Virginia Coverdale. I feel so bad for her. Here's what WatchdogWire wrote about her: "In October 2012, former RSE customer Virginia Coverdale posted a two and a half minute YouTube video showing scenes from Knight’s eleven hour February 2012 livestream. Coverdale’s video showed clips of Knight raging and hurling profanities against Catholics, Jews, and gays."

    As best I understand it, JZ Knight used the courts to go after Virginia, via JZ's company, JZK. Unfortunately, Virginia doesn't have much money, so the legal battle must have been devastating. It appears that JZ, rich, went after her with a vengeance, spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to attack her for sharing that two and a half minute clip. Her biggest weapon against Virginia was a nondisclosure agreement that she makes everyone sign. If I understand it correctly, it sounds like JZ spent $600,000 in legal costs to win the case, and while there were no damages awarded, Virginia had to pay the legal costs of $600,000. Virginia is now bankrupt, and it appears that JZ is pursuing her quite aggressively, perhaps to make an example of her. For example, an article in the local Yelm newspaper bore the headline, "JZK. Inc. Goes After Coverdale’s Car." In my mind, that's just cruel. A quote from another article was, "Virginia Coverdale, the former Ramtha School of Enlightenment student who last month was ordered to pay JZ Knight’s company $600,000 after a court ruling against her, claims Knight is trying to buy her mortgage in order to foreclose on her."

    That's what happened to the woman who was featured in the video clip that Bruce linked to. So sad. I wish her strength.

    To learn more:
    Here's the full article from WatchdogWire. It covers the early stages of the case: http://watchdogwire.com/northwest/2014/06/05/jz-knight-yells-put-it-on-youtube-then-sues/
    The aftermath of the case can found with the following search from YelmOnline. I'm glad that independent minded people still control that news outlet: http://www.yelmonline.com/topic/?q=virginia coverdale&l=25&sd=asc
    Here is JZ Knight's PR firm, proudly crowing about their $600,000 "victory:" http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/court-awards-600000-to-ramthas-school-of-enlightenment-216660351.html (Court Awards $600,000 to Ramtha's School of Enlightenment)
    The Skeptic's Dictionary has a great entry on Ramtha/JZ Knight: http://skepdic.com/ramtha.html (Ramtha - JZ Knight - The Skeptic's Dictionary - Skepdic.com)
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2016
  5. BruceMC

    BruceMC Beloved Grand Eagle

    Yes, Forest. She sure sounded drunk to me! Interesting in this context how higher-conscious Zen guru Alan Watts always seemed to be so together, but when he died in his sleep at 57 y.o., they found that the space under his sink was filled up with empty vodka bottles! One-a-day plan. Well, with an alcoholic wife, two ex-wives and 5 dependents plus three big houses in Marin, what's a guru going to do while churning out endless books to pay the bills? I think it's like that great 18th century writer Samuel Johnson once put it: "Show me a man who's totally happy, and I'll show you a man who's completely intoxicated". Good to distrust someone who's a little too enthused, isn't it?
    plum, North Star and Forest like this.
  6. Forest

    Forest Beloved Grand Eagle

    Indeed. And there is even some suggestion that Dispenza was part of the creation of the wine ceremony based on some information that he found online about resveratrol. Though in the end, like you mention, the wine ceremony is probably all about the stress that JZ goes through from being trapped into living a lie for the rest of her life.

    There is actually a rather disturbing video still available from one of the wine ceremonies. In it, JZ is berating Linda Evans, a moderately famous actress who played Krystle Carrington in the famous US soap opera, Dynasty for 8 years in the 80s and also played Audra Barkley in The Big Valley (1965–1969). For some reason, JZ refers to Linda as "Lady Star."

    You can watch the video here:
    It's disturbing the way that JZ attacks actress Linda Evans and the power that she has over her. Just very sad. JZ sounds like a narcissist who is genuinely hurt that Linda Evans didn't take her financial advice - did not pay the proper respect to "her channel" (i.e. JZ).

    Here's Linda Evans as Krystle Carrington in Dallas. Bring back any memories?
    Anyway, it sounds like she may be being emotionally brutalized by Ramtha and may never get away.

    Here's a writeup of the incident from a local newspaper (thank goodness for good reporting in local newspapers)
    Transcripts from a Secret Video: Money, Hate, Lies, and Linda Evans –

    From the gym bag video, dated 2-17-12:

    JZ Knight is enthroned on her stage, before a packed RSE arena audience. Her speech is slurred, her hair is a mess. She’s clutching her pipe lighter, and her ever present red wine bottle is perched next to her.

    She is now glaring in the direction of a prize student, actress Linda Evans, who is sitting near the stage in a coveted spot. Evans is seated directly behind Mike Wright and his wife Beverly.

    Mike Wright is JZK Inc.’s Corporate Legal Affairs Liaison and Manager of Product Sales and Services for RSE. Wright also sells his JZK video based on phony credentials. (see “JZ’s Rules of Rape, Perjury, Hate, and Fraud”)

    Knight hocks and spits on the stage floor, then begins her rant while glaring in the direction of Linda Evans:

    “Thank God your channel knew that.”

    “Your channel” is one of Knight’s names for herself, when addressing her followers. Throughout her events, she often refers to herself in the third person.

    JZ Knight continues:
    “She’s a success, and you’re struggling to try to be one.”

    Knight pauses to plug one nostril, then blows mucus from the other nostril onto the stage floor. Then she turns back toward Linda Evans and continues.

    “She tried to give you insider knowledge, and you wouldn’t give her…her rite of passage, to believe in her.” Knight’s voice starts to quiver. “So never tell her ever again, you believe in her. Assh-le!”

    Some cheers from the crowd. Camera pans to a sad looking Linda Evans. Knight continues.

    “She tried to make you wealthy”—Linda Evans closes her eyes and nods— “and you gave her to a Jew. F-ck you.”

    Linda Evans crunches her face and nods again, Knight cues music. “Hit it! Turn to your partner and tell him what you’ve heard.”

    Evans drops her head seemingly in remorse. Directly in front of her, Mike Wright and his wife turn to each other and solemnly talk, as instructed.

    After a musical interlude where the crowd was apparently to have discussed these transgressions, JZ Knight continues:

    “And the truth. Your channel wanted you to be wealthy, and you gave it up to a f—ing Jew. And you overrided (sic) her knowledge, who you say you love beyond words, but you didn’t follow her advice. I could have made you a multi, multi-millionaire.” Linda Evans nods solemnly. Knight continues:

    “But you followed your business manager’s advice because he was a man. I don’t know if we’ll ever reach you.

    We have to look at such a god, such a f—ing weak example that we never want to follow.” (JZ Knight refers to her followers as “gods.”)

    “When the light of her life was telling her something, but because the light of her life was JZ Knight, and not a man…and what did JZ Knight know, against a Jew?” Crowd laughter.

    “Here is the honest history, the honest history. Because I don’t give a f-ck if she’s still my student or not…”

    In front of a 2011 audience, Knight mocked the genocide of Jews in the Holocaust: “F-ck God’s chosen people! I think they have earned enough cash to have paid their way out of the g-ddamned gas chambers by now.”

    Cheers followed that statement. Children frolicked in the audience. Knight ordered her devoted followers—including the children—not to be ashamed of this teaching.

    Back to the 2012 video: JZ Knight briefly turns away from Linda Evans, to discuss her own financial prowess with the rest of the audience.

    “That’s why she earns the big bucks. That’s why 3M and the Nasdaq corporations seek her privately. And that’s why she’s so confident she has them pay nothing, until she’s right. And that is f—ing greatness. I am a voice in the wilderness, sitting right here. And you are patrons who are hostile. You still want me to prove why you’re wrong, and I will never prove that!”

    Knight turns back toward Linda Evans and wags her finger.

    “The subtleness of mind is a f—ing supplicant crawling to the hierophant, and I don’t think you’ve done that recently.” She angrily slaps her chair. “You still think you know better, I know you do! You don’t even apply what I’ve taught you unless I call your ass on it and embarrass you.”

    JZ Knight again turns away from Linda Evans, back to her audience. “That’s what people give me, a bid for a private reading with me. You know why they pay fifty thousand dollars to spend six hours with me? Because I’m going to take them through the wringer.”
    - See more at: http://www.zoomvillage.com/newsStor...ate-FraudSalma-and-Linda#sthash.cZF7Sq6p.dpuf

    Source: The South Thurston Journal,
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2016
  7. North Star

    North Star Beloved Grand Eagle

    *Sigh* Why does this not surprise me? I always check out someone's credentials when I see the "Dr" title. And it, I'm sorry for the language, but it pisses me off when I find they're chiropractors AND they bury that information.
    Having said that, I read the You are the Placebo and enjoyed it for the most part. (It's been a while since I read it so that's all I can remember right now.)

    I try to hold a space for "mystery" because there is so much that we DON'T know. But sadly that space usually has many flakes and hucksters just waiting to capitalize on ignorance. (Maybe I should start selling Green Cheese from the Moon and share a story about how an alien showed me obtain it. Hello, Carribean Cruise!)

    As usual, Forest, thank you for your vigilance and your wise insights.
    karinabrown and Forest like this.
  8. North Star

    North Star Beloved Grand Eagle

    So I just watched some of those clips. I am speechless. That woman is a first class nut job....but even worse, she's a destructive nut job. And for the multitudes to just sit there and listen. BTW- many of the other links weren't working. (Probably for the better since I just ate dinner.)
    Forest likes this.
  9. Forest

    Forest Beloved Grand Eagle

    Yes, the clips are absolutely amazing. The one that I highlighted in my last post is just stunning. Speechless is the right word.

    I've gone through and removed all of the dead links I could find, so they should all function now.

    JZ has literally spent millions of dollars attempting to get these clips taken down, so that might be why there are so many dead links around. (The estimate of the amount she spent to suppress them comes from a nonprofit called The Freedom Foundation. Bravo to them for standing up to her - they have spent tens or hundreds of thousands of dollers defending themselves from her.) It's just all about money.

    There is also a 20/20 episode about her from back in the 80s. People who are recovering from the cult sometimes watch it over and over to deprogram themselves just like TMSers sometimes watch the TMS 20/20 to help us overcome our fear of our pain.

    When she's channeling "Ramtha" in the 20/20 episode, her faked voice and mannerisms are hilarious. They're so campy! Her fake accent even fades in and out.

    Another thing that absolutely amazes me from the 20/20 video is that one of the "true believers" that they show - the one that JZ kisses - looks EXACTLY like a younger version of Joe Dispenza. He looks anxious (Joe Dispenza looks anxious to me in all of his videos) and he looks like an absolute true believer. You can see him at 5:18, when they start talking about the true believers that really believe in her.

    Now, obviously, I can't be sure that it is Dispenza, but every time I see it, it just jumps out at me. This same sweaty guy also appears at 0:38. I looked it up and according to this page, "Dr. Joe" was a "student" at RSE when the 20/20 episode was filmed. It sounds like JZ groomed him for a while, perhaps he jumped out as a true believer early on.

    Here's the 20/20 episode. It's a nice balanced and fairly quick primer. Each video is about 8 minutes long

    Part 2:

  10. Forest

    Forest Beloved Grand Eagle

    By the way, if anyone happens to already know what Joe looks like, I'd love your thoughts on whether the guy at 5:18 in the first video looks like a younger version of him as well.
  11. North Star

    North Star Beloved Grand Eagle

    Holy. Sh*t. (Apologies to delicate readers.)

    Why didn't I think of this ruse? Think of all the Champion Bichon Frises I could own by now.

    Just kidding, just kidding. Yes, Forest, that DOES look like a young Joe.

    I would love to hear a linguist unpack that accent. I am absolutely blown away at this... Reminds of the saying, "If you think education is expense, try ignorance."
    Forest likes this.
  12. North Star

    North Star Beloved Grand Eagle

    Forgot to put quotes around "accent". Seriously people? I've heard middle schoolers do better accents.
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  13. Boston Redsox

    Boston Redsox Well Known Member

    The guy is a quack period ....he takes advant from of people who are seeking true help shame on him and all who go down this rode of financial gain no better then big pharma or surgeons to perform unneccsrry surgery.
    BruceMC and North Star like this.
  14. mike2014

    mike2014 Beloved Grand Eagle

    I'm kicking myself, I wish I had researched into his credibility before parting with hard earned cash, and unknowingly supporting this quack. I'll know better next time.
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2016
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  15. North Star

    North Star Beloved Grand Eagle

    What's really sad about this, I think, I think that many times, folks like this do start out with good intentions. The taste of control over people and financial gain, totally screws things up. I'm saying that more about Joe. If that is him in those earlier videos, he was (is) clearly a very insecure and broken man. I've seen this scenario play out in religious circles where the person's mandate is from God himself - that adds a special crazy spin to things.

    The Ramtha lady - there's gotta being something pathological in her in addition to series character deficit issues. Malignant narcissism? Alcoholism?

    Mike - me too. I deleted his book from my Kindle. I noticed I never finished it either so something must have been pinging with me. All that said, it doesn't negate the positive and helpful things he does say. Eg, our beliefs do play a role in our physical health.
  16. Simplicity

    Simplicity Guest

    This thread is really interesting, although I haven't read anything by this guy. I've read about Ramtha, though, since I find cults and the psychology behind those things fascinating. It angers me that someone would do this to others, to gain power and money. It's sad.

    If someone spent money on his books, etc without checking him out first you shouldn't beat myself up about it, although it's very important to make sure about people's credentials, it's an easy mistake to do! You live you learn.
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  17. Forest

    Forest Beloved Grand Eagle

    Yeah, it always feels awful to trust someone and be betrayed. It reminds me of the saying, which actually goes back several centuries, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." I agree that "lessons learned" is the best approach to take. Offering miracle cures or deep insight is an easy way to make quick money and easy money corrupts, so always check credentials.
    North Star, Simplicity and mike2014 like this.
  18. BruceMC

    BruceMC Beloved Grand Eagle

    Yes. I would really like to know if there is independent scientific verification of any of the statistics based on CAT scans of the brains of students who have taken Dr. Joe's courses? Do those with MS, Parkinson's or other autoimmune disorders really show measurable improvement after attending his seminars? Show me the numbers and follow ups! What do his patients have to say a few months or a few years later?
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2016
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  19. Boston Redsox

    Boston Redsox Well Known Member

    NS and ALL

    You made a good point regarding that he started with good intentions ( maybe) but between the ego and the greed he started taking advantage of many people in pain. Granted he had a lot of good things to say in is book…now after reading so much, everybody else uses the same lingo. I knew half way in one of his books he keeps mentioning to sign up for one of is seminar, our buy this tape and the other he was just a salesmen.

    Don't want to beat this to death but its a shame and he's not alone by no stretch of the imagination. Since then I have been very cautious who I give my money to and what I read.

    But and a big BUT, I have found Fred Amir very refreshing , yes I had my doubts with him to but I gave him a chance and I enjoy is process and how he approaches life with such energy and gratitude.
    BruceMC likes this.
  20. yb44

    yb44 Beloved Grand Eagle

    Holy Moly! I've not watched any of the clips but I've 'heard' enough reading the above. I downloaded the Placebo book onto my Kindle a while ago when the price dropped to £.99 so no great financial loss but I'll be more careful in future too.
    BruceMC and mike2014 like this.

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