Is this TMS?

[CrabDiver]

Hello! I'm hoping this community can help me because I've been very confused about my pain and would like to get some confirmation on this.

I'm a 23 year old man who has had some mild back pain my whole life - soreness from backpacks and generally needing to stretch a lot. I also worked at a grocery store for a few years.

However, in March of 2024, I was just walking to the store and my back muscles spasmed around what felt like a nerve. Instant, blinding, excruciating pain. I hit the ground and barely made it home. Spent a week in bed. But because I'm so young the hospital didn't even scan me and just told me I had muscle spasms.

The next few months, I did PT and was fine despite a physical job. Lots of pain, yes, but I would manage. But the pain never went away. In November, I took a trip on an airplane, train, and car, so lots of sitting. When I got home, my back seized again, and I was out for several days. Anytime I moved, my muscles would clench and give me excruciating pain. This same incident happened again in mid December and yet again in early January. I was feeling defeated and fragile. I had to cancel a bunch of gigs I do on the side for my work, and I now have a more sedentary job that still gives me extreme pain. I have to end each day in bed because of the way the pain builds up.

I did get an MRI and it turns out I have a herniated disc in L3/L4 and a loss of lumbar lordosis. I've been doing the McGill Big 3 for the past 2 months and have felt little improvement but thankfully no spasm attacks.

I read The Mind Body Prescription and did Alan Gordon's sessions on this site, and I think it's improved but I'm unsure. I've had many more pain free moments after reading. I also talked myself out of a threatening back spasm while doing dishes. So it seems to be working, but ultimately I cannot get the physical ideas out of my head. With all 4 spasm attacks there were common factors: traveling, unfamiliar beds, poor shoe quality, etc. so it seemed like it was related to physical issues. But I've had some success with TMS therapy - I've even felt my pain move to where my shoulders often feel burning and sore to the touch.

I'm just wondering if anyone here with TMS has had a herniated disc that ended up not being the problem, or if anyone else experiences these severe back spasms like I do. It would be reassuring to hear that a psychological ailment could cause such intense physical symptoms.

Thanks for reading. I hope this doesn't seem like a rant. Thanks!

 

[louaci]

It sounds like TMS. People experienced horrible back spasm that would have sent the unaware to the ER for emotional reasons, once they realize how they feel, the spasm goes away. Also it is not a psychological ailment, there is no right or wrong in all our emotions from our own point of view. Others could judge whatever, but it doesn't matter. You are the one that feels the emotions and responsible for the emotions. Your unseen/unfelt emotions would make real physical changes in your body because human is one complete system not separated. The fact that physical symptoms could be eliminated by doing emotional work doesn't mean the symptoms are not real.

How did you feel for your trip ? Did you actually want to take that trip? How did you feel about your work, work change, etc.? What else is going on in your life when you felt the spasm etc.? You could do more testing and come up with more physical evidence as well and your brain will ponder back and forth and that would be a great distraction.

 

[CrabDiver]

It sounds like TMS. People experienced horrible back spasm that would have sent the unaware to the ER for emotional reasons, once they realize how they feel, the spasm goes away. Also it is not a psychological ailment, there is no right or wrong in all our emotions from our own point of view. Others could judge whatever, but it doesn't matter. You are the one that feels the emotions and responsible for the emotions. Your unseen/unfelt emotions would make real physical changes in your body because human is one complete system not separated. The fact that physical symptoms could be eliminated by doing emotional work doesn't mean the symptoms are not real.

How did you feel for your trip ? Did you actually want to take that trip? How did you feel about your work, work change, etc.? What else is going on in your life when you felt the spasm etc.? You could do more testing and come up with more physical evidence as well and your brain will ponder back and forth and that would be a great distraction.

Thanks for the response! Yeah, one thing that makes me hesitate is that during some of the spasms, I have not felt like I was under that much emotional stress. The first one last March was in the middle of doing lots of wedding planning, finishing my full-time student degree, and working full time too. So definitely lots on my plate, but it felt well managed. The trip itself I was eager to go on and had a complete blast, so no stress there besides the typical planning and itinerary stress. I moved from the USA to Europe in October for the job I have now, so that might have added some stress. But when I get the spasms, I feel emotionally terrible and feel anxious that I'll deal with this forever and won't be able to live a normal life.

Is it just the case that some people deal with stress/anxiety harder than others? I've always felt like a worry-er, which I get from my mother who worried about everything growing up. I also grew up hearing that I needed to be successful to support my parents all the time which added some stress I'm sure. So maybe that could be apart of it.

 

[HealingMe]

I'm just wondering if anyone here with TMS has had a herniated disc that ended up not being the problem, or if anyone else experiences these severe back spasms like I do. It would be reassuring to hear that a psychological ailment could cause such intense physical symptoms.

Thanks for reading. I hope this doesn't seem like a rant. Thanks!

If you click on the little magnifying glass in the top right corner, you can search “back pain” and any other symptom you may be experiencing.

That being said, yes! Our brains can cause so many colorful, intense, excruciating physical symptoms. Check out some of the success stories of those who’ve recovered!

 

[louaci]

Thanks for the response! Yeah, one thing that makes me hesitate is that during some of the spasms, I have not felt like I was under that much emotional stress. The first one last March was in the middle of doing lots of wedding planning, finishing my full-time student degree, and working full time too. So definitely lots on my plate, but it felt well managed. The trip itself I was eager to go on and had a complete blast, so no stress there besides the typical planning and itinerary stress. I moved from the USA to Europe in October for the job I have now, so that might have added some stress. But when I get the spasms, I feel emotionally terrible and feel anxious that I'll deal with this forever and won't be able to live a normal life.

Is it just the case that some people deal with stress/anxiety harder than others? I've always felt like a worry-er, which I get from my mother who worried about everything growing up. I also grew up hearing that I needed to be successful to support my parents all the time which added some stress I'm sure. So maybe that could be apart of it.

A lot of times we are conditioned to not feel the stress when many things are going on in life and all seems well managed. But that is like walking on a tight rope and the brain knows that one is running full or most likely above capacity. So no room for mistakes but that is not how humans could survive or thrive. We need a lot of redundancy extra capacity to flow actually. One tiny thing slips and bang the whole thing collapses and all kinds of emotions especially the buried ones would rush through the flood gate and scare the crap of the brian and then all kinds of symptoms could appear for distraction.

Also the expectation of being successful to support parents all the time, that is not some stress. That is a huge huge stress and pressure and even enraging. Idealy adults live life they truly want to live, not living the life that their parents or anybody wants them to live.

 

[JanAtheCPA]

With all 4 spasm attacks there were common factors: traveling, unfamiliar beds, poor shoe quality, etc.

these are the BS conditions that your logical brain latches onto in a desperate attempt to explain what is an unconscious, and possibly irrational, response to stress.

during some of the spasms, I have not felt like I was under that much emotional stress. The first one last March was in the middle of doing lots of wedding planning, finishing my full-time student degree, and working full time too. So definitely lots on my plate, but it felt well managed.

Hah - if I had a dollar for every person who said they "didn't feel like they were under that much stress"... this is probably the most common "Yes, But..." statement we see on the forum. It's seems that folks need to say it at least once so they can learn that they are not telling themselves the truth. FWIW, every time I hear that from someone I know personally, and then repeat it to ANYONE who knows the individual at all well, the other person always rolls their eyes.

Look, I really don't want to make light of the pain you are suffering, I really don't. And of course I can see that as you kept writing
you quickly revealed an important and probably primary reason why you are in such pain at such a young age, and why you have abnormally high anxiety:

I've always felt like a worry-er, which I get from my mother who worried about everything growing up.

and then there's this:

I also grew up hearing that I needed to be successful to support my parents all the time which added some stress I'm sure. So maybe that could be apart of it.

"SOME" stress? "MAYBE" could be a part of it? Holy moly my friend - that is some SERIOUS parental pressure right there! No wonder you've got back pain at such a young age! @louaci said it - that is ENRAGING. I am enraged for you!

Because you've been checked out, it's clear that there is nothing special or uniquely damaged about your back. As Dr. Sarno explained from his own examination and treatment of back pain patients in the 1980s, millions of people walk around with similar herniations and no pain. The fact is that we start wearing out our bodies, including our spines, shortly after we start walking. Yet many of us never experience back pain, and most of us certainly do not experience it from a young age (although we might have other symptoms as children - my childhood symptoms were anxiety, GI issues, ear infections and mild OCD).

The really good news is that you are so young! Once you learn the truth about your pain, and do the emotional work to learn how to eliminate it from your life, you have decades of pain-free living ahead of you! Some of us took many more years to discover Dr. Sarno (I was 60, and that was fourteen years ago) - so give yourself a hundred gold stars for being open to this information at just 23!

I do have three specific suggestions for your self-education:
1. Read Dr. Sarno's first book - it is "the bible" of TMS, called Healing Back Pain and of course it is all what he discovered about the truth of back pain. It may be more relevant to your current situation than MBP (although that is a valuable resource for different reasons).
2. Read the #1 book for anxiety, Hope and Help for Your Nerves, by Claire Weekes. It's a small book, it's compassionate and easy to read, and it just makes sense.
3. Start doing our free Structured Educational Program on the main TMSwiki.org website. There's no requirement to sign in or sign up - just be sure to follow the introductory recommendations on the "Week 0" page, including the specifics on the top post of the SEP subforum.

You will eventually be asked to examine the influences of your childhood and your family structure. This is where you have to be brutally honest with yourself and tell the truth (only to yourself) about the pressures placed on you at a young age, and how that made you feel. The truth will ultimately set you free, because right now, it is being repressed, and those physical symptoms are needed by your primitive TMS brain to continue repressing the truth, because it thinks that the truth is a threat to your survival. Your TMS brain doesn't actually know the difference between modern stresses which can't kill you, vs. primitive wilderness stresses which could.

This should be enough to get you started. Keep posting and let us know how it goes. We're here for you if and when you need support or encouragement to keep going!

 

[Bonnard]

Hello @CrabDiver,

I responded to several parts of your post.
What you're describing sounds like classic TMS. Be super careful with those generalizations where you discount/write off current life stressors and also don't consider repressed emotions/rage/unacceptable feelings/triggers--the not-so-pretty stuff that can trigger TMS symptoms. Dr. Sarno (and others) talk a lot about this.

I'm just wondering if anyone here with TMS has had a herniated disc that ended up not being the problem, or if anyone else experiences these severe back spasms like I do. It would be reassuring to hear that a psychological ailment could cause such intense physical symptoms.

When you read The Mindbody Prescription, how did you read it? Did you read it through very quickly to finish the book? Did you try to find yourself in the book?
Because Dr. Sarno talks extensively in there about herniated discs--focusing on it as one of the most common manifestations of TMS. He answers the question you pose quite a bit in that book. It's definitely a book for short passages or single chapters and reflection/identification rather than getting to completion.

This short thread might be helpful:
https://www.tmswiki.org/forum/threads/dr-sarno-and-herniated-disc.25211/ (Dr sarno and herniated disc)
There's a broken link to a podcast from Nicole Sachs (check out more from her, for sure). Here is a link that works for that podcast:
https://www.yourbreakawake.com/podcasts/the-cure-for-chronic-pain-with-nicole-sachs-lcsw-2/episodes/2148744241 (S1 Ep152: Episode 152 - Back Pain, Sciatica, Coccydynia, and Unnecessary Surgery with Jacqueline)

This is that older, classic 20/20 piece that drew a lot of attention to Dr. Sarno's work:
https://www.tmswiki.org/forum/threads/the-classic-20-20-segment-with-dr-sarno.69/ (The Classic 20/20 Segment with Dr. Sarno)
At 5:29, Dr. Sarno says this:
"These abnormalities couldn't, in a million years, produce the kind of pain that people get with this syndrome."

In light of those words from Sarno, check out how debilitating your pain was and how you describe it. I took the liberty of bolding key parts. Does it make any sense that herniated discs could cause that kind of pain?
And then the pain jumps to your shoulder!

However, in March of 2024, I was just walking to the store and my back muscles spasmed around what felt like a nerve. Instant, blinding, excruciating pain. I hit the ground and barely made it home. Spent a week in bed. But because I'm so young the hospital didn't even scan me and just told me I had muscle spasms.

The next few months, I did PT and was fine despite a physical job. Lots of pain, yes, but I would manage. But the pain never went away. In November, I took a trip on an airplane, train, and car, so lots of sitting. When I got home, my back seized again, and I was out for several days. Anytime I moved, my muscles would clench and give me excruciating pain. This same incident happened again in mid December and yet again in early January. I was feeling defeated and fragile. I had to cancel a bunch of gigs I do on the side for my work, and I now have a more sedentary job that still gives me extreme pain. I have to end each day in bed because of the way the pain builds up.

I wish you well! You've found what is going on with you. Go deeper with it. Don't let yourself get to the answer and let your brain and this TMS off the hook. That's what's going on...

 

[JanAtheCPA]

@Bonnard is a better resource than I am for the specifics of The Mindbody Prescription I kind of skimmed through it after I recovered, because I wanted to get an idea of how it differed from the Sarno book I chose for my recovery, which was The Divided Mind (his final one). What I know about Healing Back Pain is from the many references to it by a lot of forum members over the years, but I did not read it myself because back pain was not my issue.

And right there is a hint that doing this work does not come with a black and white set of rules, and the path to attaining the knowledge and achieving recovery is far from a straight line with obvious guidelines. This is also important for you to understand so that your expectations for doing the work are realistic!

 

[CrabDiver]

If you click on the little magnifying glass in the top right corner, you can search “back pain” and any other symptom you may be experiencing.

That being said, yes! Our brains can cause so many colorful, intense, excruciating physical symptoms. Check out some of the success stories of those who’ve recovered!

Thank you for the tips as I'm learning and taking a deep dive into this. I read your success story the other day which was a huge help, and I plan on using the resources you linked into it. So thank you again for all your help!

these are the BS conditions that your logical brain latches onto in a desperate attempt to explain what is an unconscious, and possibly irrational, response to stress.

Hah - if I had a dollar for every person who said they "didn't feel like they were under that much stress"... this is probably the most common "Yes, But..." statement we see on the forum. It's seems that folks need to say it at least once so they can learn that they are not telling themselves the truth. FWIW, every time I hear that from someone I know personally, and then repeat it to ANYONE who knows the individual at all well, the other person always rolls their eyes.

Look, I really don't want to make light of the pain you are suffering, I really don't. And of course I can see that as you kept writing
you quickly revealed an important and probably primary reason why you are in such pain at such a young age, and why you have abnormally high anxiety:
and then there's this:
"SOME" stress? "MAYBE" could be a part of it? Holy moly my friend - that is some SERIOUS parental pressure right there! No wonder you've got back pain at such a young age! @louaci said it - that is ENRAGING. I am enraged for you!

Thank you for the insights, especially the symptoms you had at a younger age. It's interesting because I haven't thought about my childhood stressors that much, until I started dating my girlfriend-now-wife. She helped me see how I could have anxiety from a mother who was constantly anxious (always worried about her and other's health and diseases, people getting in car wrecks, being okay financially, etc) and also dealing with my parents who both had debilitating disabilities and have been unable to work for quite some time. My father passed away while I was in college, and lo and behold, I had a neck paralysis attack 6 months after his passing. It sort of makes sense... but I'm still trying to absorb it all. It's difficult to realize when, overall, I love my mother and have a good relationship with her, so it feels bad to sort of "blame" her for some of my physical symptoms if that makes sense.

(although we might have other symptoms as children - my childhood symptoms were anxiety, GI issues, ear infections and mild OCD).

It's also interesting to read your list of symptoms as a child. Growing up, I had stomach cramps every single morning of my life without fail, often making me feel ill for the first hour of every day. I also have been in therapy for OCD and have some odd (although harmless for the most part) compulsive actions - the classic stuff like counting steps and other things, biting nails, obsessive about numbers, etc that can sometimes cloud my brain. I also have severe seasonal allergies (dealing with them right now actually haha) which I know Sarno says is part of TMS.

Thanks for pointing me in some good directions and for encouraging me that I'm still young. With my back problems, I keep hearing "But you're so young!" which is really discouraging when it feels like my body broke down 40 years before most people's do. But hearing the "You're so young!" in positive light is really encouraging to hear, so thank you. I will certainly stick around for a bit while I explore this. Thank you so much!

Hello @CrabDiver,
When you read The Mindbody Prescription, how did you read it? Did you read it through very quickly to finish the book? Did you try to find yourself in the book?
Because Dr. Sarno talks extensively in there about herniated discs--focusing on it as one of the most common manifestations of TMS. He answers the question you pose quite a bit in that book. It's definitely a book for short passages or single chapters and reflection/identification rather than getting to completion.

I read every page, so I'm definitely aware of his claims about herniated discs. I guess it's hard to believe, especially from just one source from the 90s. So I'm here for confirmation that what he says has been other people's lived experiences. But as I'm reading more about other people's descriptions, it's easier and easier to believe. Thank you for the resources. I'll take a look everyone!

 

[JanAtheCPA]

Google the Boulder Back Study. It's the clinical research that Dr Sarno admittedly never did, but it confirmed his subjective observations!

 

[JanAtheCPA]

haven't thought about my childhood stressors that much, until I started dating my girlfriend-now-wife. She helped me see how I could have anxiety from a mother who was constantly anxious

PS - Smart fiancée

And the two of you together sound like a great life team