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Is repetition the cure?

Discussion in 'General Discussion Subforum' started by Pilot in pain, Oct 27, 2013.

  1. Pilot in pain

    Pilot in pain Peer Supporter

    Hey All! Day 13 on the program. Have not really noticed much of a change at this point as the pain still is the same with the same activities. It is obvious after reading every book he has, listening to it on tape and I really do believe this is my issue as I fit like glove and not to mention my MRIs and Xrays do not show hideous things persee but the pain certainly is real so I think TMS is my baby for sure. My guess is maybe if you are not one of the lucky ones to have the fortune to read a book and the light pop on, repetition is the key. I was working in the garden yesterday with so much back pain I thought I was going to start crying but I kept pushing through it away saying over and over, the bending over is not the reason for my pain, it is the belief that the bending over is causing the pain is the reason for my pain and things like, you have no structural problem with your back so this is all your brain trying to screw you around and so on and so forth. It did not make any pain go away for sure but after a while i thought maybe it is just the repetitiveness of this process that gets you better. IF every time you have pain you start to think there is no pain eventually the brain will pull in line. I dont know if I am just grasping at straws for it not working after reading the book but anyone show this to be their case at all? if you just keep hitting the mind over and over while you are in pain saying there is no pain, maybe it will give the mind the message after a while?

    Any thoughts?

  2. Anne Walker

    Anne Walker Beloved Grand Eagle

    Hello. Yes, just remember it is probably the majority who are not cured after reading the books. I am sure with all your reading you have given some thought to outcome independence. It is very frustrating and hard to accept and yet important in recovery. We are doing all this reading and practice because we want to get out of pain and so it is natural to monitor and focus on the pain as a measuring stick for how well we are doing and to confirm whether we really do have TMS. Instead of repetition, I would simply say faith and persistence. I think it is very good to continually remind yourself that there is not a structural problem, but that is still primarily focused on the physical aspect of the pain. Yes, it is all in your brain, but your brain is not just trying to screw you around. Your brain is distracting you for a reason. It is not random or just because it can. As complex as our emotions and subconscious life is, you may or may not be able to sit down and figure out exactly why your brain has adopted this strategy. It is important to open up to the various possibilities though. Each time you notice yourself thinking about the pain, how bad it is, what you may or may not have done to fix it, try to redirect yourself to thinking about what is going on in your life instead. When I first started this process six months ago I could barely get past the fact that I was frustrated and anxious about what all this pain was doing to my life. Although I was very active and responsible for many things, there really wasn't much of a life beyond the pain. I wasn't happy and I thought that was because I was in pain. In any case, I think you are on the right track. You seem very confident in your TMS diagnosis and headed in the right direction. Keep going.
    Forest and Ellen like this.
  3. BruceMC

    BruceMC Beloved Grand Eagle

    Whatever it takes to get you to stop obsessing about your pain symptoms. That is, forgetting about them. Yes, it's like a change in consciousness that erases your obsession with your ongoing pain symptoms. Sounds simple, right? But definitely not so easy.
  4. 575

    575 Peer Supporter

    I read "Healing Backpain" about 3 months ago and knew it was TMS.
    Amazingly I've been feeling REALLY great the past week, during most time of the day the pain is just a little pressure that doesn't bother me.
    So from my experience I can tell you that repetition is the key. Your subconscious will learn sooner or later that you're too smart for this distraction bullshit.
    Don't get discouraged when it doesn't go away immediately, stay strong and show TMS who's the boss. Do whatever you want even if it hurts.
    A few weeks before my great week there were times when the pain sides (sitting pain, butt) switched 5 times during the day and my muscles were twitching all day.
    If you notice signs like these, celebrate them.
    Forest likes this.
  5. Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)

    Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021) Beloved Grand Eagle

    I too go for repetition. Keep telling your unconscious mind the pain is from one or more repressed emotions,
    and keep thinking or journaling about what they could be. Just don't do it late at night or your mind might
    be too active and keep you awake.
  6. Pilot in pain

    Pilot in pain Peer Supporter

    Yikes I have done every single day of the structured program from bed at about midnight! hehe. Have to get to it earlier. My plan is just to drive the sayings over and over in my head until it sinks in. Pain or not pain I am pushing through it. Went to the gym tonight and would do one set and literally have to take a 5 minute break between each to conk out witih complete exhaustion but I made it through a work out. It was useless and I did not get any gain out of it. I was chronically exhausted going in the door and did not use an ounce of physical energy it was all mental energy but at least I was there. First time in months from a guy that used to do 2-3 hours a day for 20 years. Time to show this body whose boss! hehe. Or this brain I guess! :)
  7. nowtimecoach

    nowtimecoach Well known member

    Congrats Pilot in pain on getting to the gym and getting that first work out in!!! That is EXCELLENT!!
    I'm on day 17 of the program and had lots and lots of frustrating pain today but I knew it was ALLLLL Tension and stress. I'm giving a workshop tomorrow and I'm stressed about it. Not that I don't know the information but I have stress because I am worried about what kind of pain I will have to push through to get the evening done. How crazy is that?? I was flared up while working in my office. Went to a coffee shop for a different scene and was able to work without any pain. I just keep getting better and better with recognizing that it is tension that I'm creating that is causing the pain. I also do repetitive physical actions to break the pattern. When I go down stairs, i feel pain... so I've started going up and down the stairs numerous times telling my brain not knock off sending pain signals - until it actually does stop. I look like an idiot but I basically am at war with this subconscious action that is robbing me of my life.
    Keep on keeping on!
  8. Pilot in pain

    Pilot in pain Peer Supporter

    Thanks NowTime! I am a few days behind you but honestly I am feeling like I am half going crazy myself talking to myself saying whatever it was that I did at the time to cause the pain is not the real cause of teh pain rather the belief that whatever it was I did to cause the pain was the cause of my pain etc. My gym trip today was a disaster but a small step I guess. I dont know if this fatigue is a part of the problem or not but I have pain in the neck if I look down, pain in the T4 area if I sit too long and pain in the L5 if I stand too long. Now I have developed knee joint pain so bad I can hardly walk up the stairs myself. That is new. I had a frozen shoulder a few months ago out of the blue, never had one in my life and I spent a few minutes screaming at myself and it went away. I think I am going to fly to NY and meet with one of the TMS experts and see if a few sessions help kick me into over drive. I am going to finish the program first and see if there is any difference and if so that is great else I think I might need a hand finding what is buried down deep.
    nowtimecoach likes this.
  9. North Star

    North Star Beloved Grand Eagle

    Pilot, sounds to me like you're really honing in one some things and the TMS is getting nervous! YAY! The dang symptoms are just checking all the channels to see what gets tuned in.

    I'm learning just plain ole distraction is a good thing for me. Something that I enjoy doing...reading a great book, watching a fun TV program on Netflix (I watch very little network stuff anymore because the ads are so insufferable...and besides, I could develop a new symptom! haha) Coffee and laughter with a good friend is always a surefire bet too.

    That's a sweet little bundle in your picture, btw.
  10. Eric "Herbie" Watson

    Eric "Herbie" Watson Beloved Grand Eagle

    Pilot your doing great, Repetition is the only way to get to the subconscious ya know
    your doing great, keep us up-dated
  11. Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)

    Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021) Beloved Grand Eagle

    Pilot, the baby is adorable. I'd spend more time loving it and less time trying to learn what
    your repressed emotions are.

    Herbie's right, though. It takes time to heal. Dr. Sarno says not to spend more than half
    an hour a day on his 12 Daily Reminders. We can overdose on thinking about our repressed
    emotions. Need the 12 DR's? Here they are:

    1.The pain is due to
    TMS, not to a structural abnormality
    2.The direct reason for the pain is mild oxygen deprivation
    TMS is a harmless condition caused by my repressed emotions
    4.The principal emotion is my repressed ANGER
    TMS exists only to distract my attentions from the emotions
    6.Since my back is basically normal there is nothing to fear
    7.Therefore,physical activity is not dangerous
    8.And I MUST resume all normal physical activity
    9.I will not be concerned or intimidated by the pain
    10.I will shift my attention from pain to the emotional issues
    11.I intend to be in control-NOT my subconscious mind
    12.I must think Psychological at all times, NOT physical.
  12. Forest

    Forest Beloved Grand Eagle

    The increase and new symptoms are probably just the symptom imperative acting out. Since you are starting to be active again your unconscious mind is trying to get you to turn your focus back to the physical. Having new symptoms develop when one first becomes active again is very common. It is one reason, I think, Dr. Sarno suggested returning to physical activity only after symptoms significantly reduce. Of course, you don't have to do that. Many people begin to be active early on in the treatment. I think it has more to do with your confidence level and how you react to the symptoms. If you are capable of recognizing these symptoms as simply TMS and do not worry about them, then you can probably keep exercising. At the same time, don't worry about taking a break. Your success with this approach is not measured by how active you are, but by how you respond to these symptoms and if you let them control you or not.
    Solange likes this.
  13. Lori

    Lori Well known member

    Yes, repetition is what the brain needs to get the new way of thinking/believing to sink in.

    Remember to think about what was going on too when you got flare-ups. I can tell you that I had TMS for sure when my son was born years ago. That is a major life change. Seeing the photo of you and the baby brought that memory back.
    "We have our clearance Clarence"
    "Roger Roger, what's our vector, Victor?"
    (sorry couldn't resist!):D
  14. Pilot in pain

    Pilot in pain Peer Supporter

    I figure if I make a routine, get up in the morning and go though my list of affirmations, add the 12 Sarno affirmations in there as well, read my page of contradictions and proofs that this is TMS and every time I have pain go through the same affirmation of it being the idea of the bending causing the pain that is causing the pain etc eventually it will sink in. I got into EFT tapping at night before i went to bed and I did it for months but nothing came out of it so I gave it up. I am also doing ACT - advanced cell training and am in about week 10 of that but that is not really doing anything either. I spoke with Ira Rashbaum and I can go see him and another lady in here suggested the chap in Somerset, NJ so I may fly out and see him as well and see if I can get a bit of a push. I am hoping some of this is going to start working. In the last few weeks I have developed some massive joint pain in my knees which I have never had before which is very odd but I was hoping that my back pain would go away with the onset of a new pain as to be honest I would be happy to be in pain anywhere else other than my back just to give it a break from the year and a half of pain but now it seems I just have both at the same time.

    Thanks all!
  15. yb44

    yb44 Beloved Grand Eagle

    Whoa, Pilot. It sounds as if you are over-egging the pudding (see "Puddings" thread ;)). What I mean is you are going at this recovery process with a vengeance and it is possible you will feel mentally strained. Be aware that your body could react accordingly with tension and further oxygen deprivation. This could account for the recent flair up in your knee. There is a great thread on this topic - http://tmswiki.org/forum/threads/3-can-you-work-too-hard-at-overcoming-tms.194/

    By all means go and get checked out by a TMS doctor if this will assist you to overcome any doubts, conscious or unconscious, and move forward. However do you need to see both Ira Rashbaum and Paul Gwozdz (doctor in Somerset, NJ)?

    It really bites when you experience pain in a new location and rather than being a replacement for your original pain, it just joins on to it so you have two pain sites grabbing your attention. Your body is doing its level best to keep you focused on the physical. I can relate. During one of my sciatica attacks that left me reeling, I managed to get a horrific migraine at the same time. So much for symptom substitution. When in this state I was willing to stand on my head if it would have helped. When I was mobile I rushed around trying to see as many practitioners and do as much as I could to alleviate my suffering. This is perfectly understandable. We see that a tiger is chasing us so we run.

    You will get there the more you practice calming yourself down though not forcibly trying to calm yourself. Just take a step back and observe what is going on with as objective a view as possible. No judgements, no attempts to change anything, just noticing. It does take time and practice. The more you rush, the more you will hold yourself back. As Claire Weekes says, if you are only practising, you cannot fail.
    Eric "Herbie" Watson likes this.
  16. Forest

    Forest Beloved Grand Eagle

    Great advice yb44! Learning to calm myself down has been a huge help in reducing flare-ups and lowering my anxiety level.

    I get it. When you are in pain you want to overcome the symptoms as quick as possible, so you try every technique you can find to get better. The issue is that when you work extremely hard to get better you build up pressure to get better. TMS feeds on pressure. When you are feeling pressured you are restricting your emotions, instead of allowing them to be present. Taking a more relaxed approach that yb44 mentioned really helps in reducing the pressure we, as perfectionists, put on ourselves to recover right away.
  17. Eric "Herbie" Watson

    Eric "Herbie" Watson Beloved Grand Eagle

    I love these responses
    yb44 your right on. and forest great as ever.
    Thanks for explaining it in a way that's very understandable.

    Pilot in pain, you got some great brains helping you here.
    I wish you well my friend,
    Bless you
  18. Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)

    Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021) Beloved Grand Eagle

    I read recently that pregnant women and new mothers have TMS pain because they are no longer girls
    but women. Maybe your pain is similar as a new father. It's a big responsibility and changes a man's life
    as well as a woman's. On top of that you have a highly stressful job.

    Maybe take the advice posted here by others and just step back and enjoy life. The treasure you're
    holding in your arms ought to give you a lot to be happy about. Let it feel your joy, not your angst.
    Eric "Herbie" Watson likes this.
  19. Pilot in pain

    Pilot in pain Peer Supporter

    Honestly everyone, I got hit with this a year and a half ago. I have spent every waking minute in the last year on a computer or in a ND's office looking at blood charts and testing food this and that, supplementing this and that, chiropractics, acupuncture, even went to Tom Chi the Pain Whisperer in NY, 27 doctors and NDs, tried every machine on the market, have over 100 IVs of ozone and vitamins shot in me, prolozone, octozone, my own ozone equiptment at home, I have done it all and my stress level is obviously through the roof trying. I have not flown a plan in over a year. It is my job at night to read to my boy and put him to bed, I honestly read at 500 miles an hour as fast as I can to get down stairs on the computer to do my class or read up on Bicom testing or the latest advancements in IV work for chronic pain and fibromyalgia and all this stuff. Or do my ozone or exercises, I am driven like a man possessed. I can easily see this as a part of my problem. I slam back all the knowledge, read teh websites, and literally run to bed so I can put on a meditation tape and try and knock that out of me before I go to bed. I have not taken a single day off in teh process in a year and a half. I see so much of myself in all of you and your stories but I have read Dr Sarno's books over and over and have been going through the structured program and writing about stressful events in my life but I just must have the most TMS capeable brain on the planet. If I have deep rooted things going on back in there then my brain is doing a bang up job of repressing them. There is not a lot that keeps me up at night other than the fact that I am in pain every time I roll over and my ribs hurt, L5 hurts, T4 hurts or my neck hurts so I figured seeing Ira or Paul might tweek out of me something that is deep down. Ira seems to be worried about disability plans or workmans comp as I am out on a disability thing because I literally can not sit down for more than about 10 minutes, only a few minutes in certain position. Anyone know why he is concerned about that? I would chop off my left foot to get off this stupid disability claim and fly a plane again but they are concerned that treating you could mess up the disability or something. I have had united healthcare help me present my case to the second opinion program at the Cleveland Clinic but they declined it. I have been reiewed by a panel of over 3000 NDs in the US and they can not come up with a reason for my pain, like I said Tom Chi has a 99% cure rate for back pain and I was the 1% so I would think anything I could do on my end to get off this disability thing the disability people would be all for. I do not have an email for Paul so I have not reached out to him yet but I plan on it as folks have said Paul is a better chap to see than IRa. Not sure if anyone has comments on that. At any rate, relaxing and taking it slow just is not in my mindset. I have been doing 4-5 different programs at one time, liver cleanses, Andy Cutlers Mercury cleans, TMS program, I am week 10 into Advanced Cell Training, everything is structured in the week for me having to do different things on different days, 3 days a week at the chiropractor, the rest of the week doing exercises at home, it is absolutely insane what I have been going through. Shot full of more things in my back than a pin cushion and nothing is working. I wish I could just say to heck with it and let it all go and just live my life but I just know my back will fall apart. I guess no one said this was going to be easy. It is nice to have folks to talk to that have been there though. If I could just see one single glimmer of this working it would be enough to crack the egg wide open so that is why i was hoping to see Paul or Ira and see if they had any suggestions. It is across the country for me but they have no TMS folks in Utah like they pretty much do not have much of anything in Utah so a 5 hour flight is going to be murder on the back but it is worth it if either of these guys is able to help me. In the mean time, off for my stretches, ozone water, class number 18 and then medication tape on TMS and then bed. Sigh.
  20. yb44

    yb44 Beloved Grand Eagle

    Details for Dr Gwozdz in NJ are here: http://www.tmswiki.org/ppd/Find_a_TMS_Doctor_or_Therapist#New_Jersey
    One of the other forum members, GR, posted something about seeing this doctor. She had nothing but positive things to say about him. What about sending GR a private message to ask her about him. It might help you make up your mind one way or another. Here is another thread that discusses Ira Rashbaum: http://tmswiki.org/forum/threads/question-about-seeing-a-tms-doctor.1759/

    "I wish I could just say to heck with it and let it all go and just live my life but I just know my back will fall apart."

    This sentence speaks volumes for me. Unless a doctor has come up with some beyond-a-shadow-of-a-doubt conclusion that there is something wrong with your back and it will fall apart with one wrong move, your back is unlikely to fall apart. Even if a doctor reached this conclusion I would still doubt it because I am like that. I see you juggling sticks with plates balanced on them, spinning them, refusing to let them fall and break. The post above is totally focused on all things physical. What else is on these plates that you are spinning - your career, family, other relationships, past events, anxious thoughts about the future? What else do you perceive might be falling apart?
    Forest, Solange and Ellen like this.

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