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Is it wishful thinking to believe this is psychogenic?

Discussion in 'Support Subforum' started by Ewok, Jun 18, 2017.

  1. Tennis Tom

    Tennis Tom Beloved Grand Eagle

    They are! They're rumored to be a cure for TMS, along with a quart of rocky-road ice cream and two glasses of wine.
  2. Time2be

    Time2be Well known member

    Dear Ewok, the book by Mary Ruth Velicki that 'healingfromchronicpain' suggests is very helpful, at least is was to me. About your symptoms: the bleeding and the pain/muscle tension might not be connected. Bleeding might be caused by hormone imbalance, while your pain has a different origin, a psychological origin. Just a guess ...
    Pelvic pain is hard to tackle. I tried different diets, the IC diet and also anti-inflammatory diet. I agree with Ines. The diet doesn't help. Of course, a reasonable diet is a good thing. But to worry about every piece of food you put into your mouth makes you more anxious.
    You could see a TMS doctor, maybe she/he could help with the diagnosis?
    Ewok and healingfromchronicpain like this.
  3. Ellen

    Ellen Beloved Grand Eagle

    I volunteer to be a test subject to find out if they are a cure. Oh, wait, I'm already cured. :D
    Lizzy, Lainey and Ewok like this.
  4. Tennis Tom

    Tennis Tom Beloved Grand Eagle

    It doesn't hurt to have a TMS booster once in a while.
    Ellen and Ewok like this.
  5. Ewok

    Ewok Peer Supporter

    Wow, that's fantastic. I've heard people say that food/diet can just become a form of OCD, which is just another form of TMS. Thanks for telling me about your experience :)
  6. Ewok

    Ewok Peer Supporter

    Thanks for the suggestion. I think I looked at this book once before but it seemed to have components like recording and then graphing your pain day-to-day which put me off, and also lots of PT. Can you tell me a little bit more about it?
  7. healingfromchronicpain

    healingfromchronicpain Well known member

    @Ewok, I suspect @Time2be will have helpful insight here, but I thought I'd give my thoughts as well.

    In general, sometimes we have to take parts of things that work for us, and leave the things that don't.

    I agree, charting the pain may not be such a good idea. I liked that she did it because I had done the same thing for over 7 years, so I felt I could relate to the author. But when I read Velicki, I had already read Ozanich and as he suggested, I had stopped charting my pain because I needed not to focus on it anymore. But it was part of my journey and at the beginning I felt like it helped when I talked to healthcare professionals to describe what I was going through. Sure, I wish I had come to understand earlier that this may not have been helpful, but like I said, it just was part of my journey.

    As for the PT stuff, yes, Ruth is a PT herself and talks about myofascial release (MFR) PT, so I can see how it could turn off someone addressing their TMS. It's been a while since I read her book, and I recall that she may not have really gotten into the gory details of the MFR "PT," but since I had done a lot of this therapy myself, and knew how powerful a mindbody approach it could be, her book was a good read for me. It talks about the emotional issues feeding her physical pain (which I also could specifically relate to), so again, I found it helpful, maybe not as a 'how-to' of how to get rid of your TMS pain, but as someone I could relate to who healed dramatically by addressing the emotions behind the pain through mindbody work.

    And even though JFB-MFR is often provided by physical therapists (but also massage therapists), and that they work on the body, I found it to be a powerful mindbody approach that helped me release the tension my mind was causing my body to hold in because of past trauma. True, at first I thought I had to get rid of the physical knots (with the help of the physical therapists) to get rid of the pain, but that was just my process of coming to understand the mindbody connection. Once my mind and body were ready (just reading Sarno initially wasn't enough for my truly repressed emotions to reveal themselves), then the JFB-MFR helped my fascia release the tension it was holding in from my past (as well as any current tension it was also holding on top of the past stuff).

    So for me, trying to address the mind as Sarno said in his books didn't initially work, so I had to search elsewhere. And I found JFB-MFR, which helped me take the next step. Then after lots of success with that, I came back to Sarno, because I know I've got some deeply engrained beliefs that need to go away--and that I need to remember to THINK PSYCHOLOGICAL! So yes, there could be the tendency to believe that the JFB-MFR is too focused on the body, but once I truly understood that it was psychological, the MFR was able to help my mind remember and release the psychological burdens it was holding in.

    Sorry if I'm babbling or if this makes no sense. I woke up in the middle of the night and thought I'd respond :)
    Ewok likes this.
  8. Time2be

    Time2be Well known member

    Hi Ewok, I think that healingfromchronicpain has already given some answers to your question about the way Ruth Mary Velicki took. The PT and Myfascial release and other types of therapy she used are, from my view, only instrumental for her to release her emotions. The big change happened for her, when she finally realized that she has been molested by a priest. So, I think her book can help. But not everyone responds to her writing as I did. So, in the end you have to pick what is helpful for you.
    I did PT for a while. The internal PT with trigger point massage didn't help that much. Sometimes I found it just awkward. What helped me sometimes was a cold laser that was applied to my tense muscles in the buttock. Otherwise I prefer yoga stretches, everything I can do by myself. Because all this PT stuff and cranio-sacral therapy is in my book nice to have, but not necessary. And it costs a lot! Like everyone with pelvic pain I tried a lot, also glutenfree diet etc. I didn't help a bit with the pain and makes life more complicated and expensive. So, now I keep a normal and healthy diet. I always preferred ecological food without pesticides etc., not only because of its health effects but also for environmental reasons. And I stay away from cosmetic products with heavy scent. I also simply don't like it.
    I know rationally that outcome independence is most important, and I try to get rid of my fear of eating certain foods, e.g. strawberries or other things with acid in it. It is difficult, I have to say. Today I have decided I will have a glas of white wine and I hope I will enjoy it without feeling scared about possible pain.
    In your situation I would definetly see a TMS doctor who can evaluate all your diagnoses. I was so fortunate to find a doctor in Germany who was able to do this. My Danish doctors all told me that I am not fitting into their patterns and sending me home. I do take 20 mg of amitryptilin every night. I started with this last October and I still think that was a good decision because it calmed me down and made it possible for me to concentrate on the psychological side.
    I am right now again in pain, and my short explanation is, that I am simply too much alone in this holiday season. I am single and most of my friends are on vacation. I stay home until next week because I wanted to finish some work. I also know that there will be a lot of work to do in the fall, I have said yes to too many task and projects. This might also contribute to the pain. But being alone makes me question my life and some of my decisions long ago and I have to learn to forgive myself.
    Hope you find out what to do!
    Ewok likes this.
  9. Time2be

    Time2be Well known member

    Dear Ewok, I would like to say something about the diagnosis of interstitial cystitis (IC/BPS) chronic pelvic pain, PN etc. the problem with IC/BPS is that they mixed up different disease. IC is a severe and rare disease of the bladder, the bladder wall bleeds or has Hunner ulcers. There might also be a psychogenic component there. But there is definitely a psychological component in so-called Bladder Pain syndrome and pelvic pain which is often overlapping: it is diagnosed solely on the background of symptoms, no pathological findings. In pelvic pain you can find tight muscles, yes, but I have to say that I had no pain at all and still some tense muscles in the buttock. Especially BPS is a diagnosis of exclusion. Because ordinary urologist don't accept the links between emotions/brain and pain, they don't take the psyche into consideration as a cause. And they don't know about pain and how the brain functions. In the US IC is over diagnosed, full stop!
    I say this to make you aware that doctors use different terminologies, sometimes different guidelines for their diagnosis. And this is especially relevant when it comes to disorders that involve a huge gray zone ...
    That is why I think you could profit from a TMS doctor who evaluates hour diagnoses.
    Ewok and healingfromchronicpain like this.
  10. Ewok

    Ewok Peer Supporter

    Dear @Time2be and @healingfromchronicpain Thank you for your detailed postings and for telling me about the book. I have decided to ban myself from buying any more books! It does sound like it would have some interesting information but I've read so much I think it's time to step to the second tier... I know that fear of my symptoms is my problem. I'm finding Alan's new program very helpful even though it differs from Dr. Sarno's approach (pathways vs emotions/distraction) but I think Balto bridges that gap nicely in all his posts when he says that it all comes down to fear and belief. That's what every expert is really telling us, just in different ways.

    In regard to the mention of a TMS doctor, there are none in my country and honestly, because none of them are specialised in gynaecology etc., they would just be making their best assessment of my personality, my history, past tests etc. and I know would come to the conclusion that I most probably have TMS, which I know already. As they couldn't be as certain as they could with something like back pain, I'd be no farther along than I am now, if that makes sense? That being said, if I had access, I'd probably jump at the chance anyway!

  11. readytoheal

    readytoheal Peer Supporter

    Just curious if you ever got this sorted out, Ewok? I’ve started spotting in between periods and it has me freaked out. But I do feel like it may have a TMS component. I’m also a pelvic pain sufferer. I do intend to go to my gynecologist but hoped you had some insight in the meantime.
  12. stradivarius

    stradivarius Peer Supporter

    I went to see a physio who specialises in mindbody disorders and they told me that I have central nervous system sensitisation and that it affects all systems of the body, including menstrual stuff. Apparently I am a textbook case as I have nerve symptoms, ectopic heart beats, slightly irritable bowels plus gynaecological symptoms. I have had spotting between periods for years and now also my periods last longer than before, just as nerve symptoms have worsened . I also have so called vulvodynia which can make sex a bit sore but manageable, but I reckon it's all part of the same thing. I reckon even if there's a structural problem you can reduce pain by trying not to focus on it. Best of luck, hope you find relief soon x.
    plum likes this.
  13. stradivarius

    stradivarius Peer Supporter

    The only other thing that occurred to me after re-reading your post is perhaps having one last go at testing for endemetriosis and if there is still no result maybe it will be easier to believe 100% in TMS.
    Time2be likes this.
  14. ladyofthelake

    ladyofthelake Peer Supporter

    If you have been cleared of dangerous health problems with extensive work-ups I'd try going all TMS with your approach. What one doctor says is irrelevant and probably based in our culture's believe in tangible and measurable tests/causes etc.
    I found that if I entertained ANY ideas of physical causes/cures I would be in more and more and more pain. When I decided to NOT CARE (fake it until you make it) about the pain it went away. It lost its purpose.
    It is very counterintuitive but the not caring and refusing to pursue any physical cause is what worked for me.
    plum, Ewok and readytoheal like this.
  15. ladyofthelake

    ladyofthelake Peer Supporter

    Pelvis exploratory surgery is the test for that. She had that.
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  16. stradivarius

    stradivarius Peer Supporter

    Lady of the lake, that is a good point, thank you.
  17. Cgmeiner33

    Cgmeiner33 Newcomer

    hi! Have you seen weird menstrual irregularities with this diagnosis? I’m scared I have uterine cancer...

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