Is it safe to assume all new and mysterious symptoms are TMS?

[AlexandraJ99]

Hi All,

I am a TMS success story, having recovered from chronic hand pain and stiffness that I had suffered from for years. I have been recovered for a year.

Recently, I also recovered from some facial pain that had developed due to my fear surrounding rosacea (which have since treated and recovered from).

I had a week of basically not worrying about my body/skin since I treated the underlying cause of the rosacea and my skin was finally looking back to normal, and BAM out of nowhere burning type of pain on my wrist/palm/upper arm.

Per google it appears to be called allodynia or neuropathy. This is definitely unlike any TMS symptom I have had before as the stimulus is touch, if touch my skin it burns. I am going to be honest, this one scares me. And naturally when if first googled it things like CRPS and fibromyalgia came up which of course made me spiral.

I initially thought I should go to the doctor but I don't know if I want to medicalize this symptom....

Am I better off assuming this is just another weird manifestation of TMS?

 

[Cactusflower]

Hello @AlexandraJ99
Welcome
besides "not worrying about my body/skin" what are your experiences with knowledge of TMS? How did you initially overcome your symptoms?


Any major symptoms should be checked by a medical professional, you haven't mentioned if you've seen anyone, but it's always a good idea.
It's also best to stop googling and trying to self-diagnose yourself - that leads to more stress and fear.


We’re here to provide support and answer your questions!

 

[AlexandraJ99]

My first TMS experience developed after the covid vaccine. I had a vaccine related injury that turned chronic due to my fear around the injury. I had a whole host of issues post-vaccine, which all resolved over time, with the exception of my hand pain and stiffness. I had endless doctors visits and bloodwork and nothing was ever found. After more than a year of dealing with it I stumbled upon Sarno's book, still didn't believe it, and then finally a year later a PT suggested it was TMS. I then worked with a chronic pain PT and ultimately realized my body had in fact healed and there was nothing wrong me.

Since the vaccine however, I have become very health-anxious. I am constantly scanning my body for symptoms which is something I never did before. If I feel the slightest twinge of anything, I immediately jump to the worst.

With my facial pain I went to a derm and he suggested neuropathic pain. The pain increased after that visit, I ended up praying about it, and I had one entirely pain free day the next day which was proof enough to me it was my brain creating it. After that, it slowly disappeared over several months.

I don't want to go down the rabbit hole of going to the doctor with this because I have ZERO symptoms of anything else, I am healthy and active. This seems like just a very strange symptom. I had been having twinges of of hand stuff before this came on for several days, and instead of my brain giving me my old symptoms I feel like it just gave me some new ones. I fear that if I go to the doctor they will give me a name for this condition and I don't know if I want a name for it if that makes sense?

It seems as if my brain has developed the habit of needing to fixate on something surrounding my body. My skin had literally JUST gone back to normal the week prior when this popped up. I was like yayyyyy my skin looks amazing I don't need to worry about anything anymore, and then suddenly I get burning sensations on my palm and wrist.

 

[Cactusflower]

So, to answer my question:
You've read a book by Dr. Sarno
You worked with someone who was a chronic pain PT who was TMS informed. I'm not sure exactly what that means. Did they take you through Dr. Sarno's work, or did you actually do physical therapy?

I'm not concerned about your fixation with symptoms. They are pretty irrelevant here except for the fact that they are "speaking" to you, that there is something going on. This is absolutely the basis of Dr. Sarno's work.

You mention fear and an actual increase in fear, and fixation.
Which indicates that there is definitely more going on.

My suggestion is to re-read your Sarno book and note where he talks about personality and thought patterns.
Note where he suggests making three lists of things that are stressors in your life, and to write about those stressors. Here are three links about writing (or journaling):

The TMSWiki’s guide to journaling: https://www.tmswiki.org/ppd/How_do_I_journal%3F (How do I journal?)

Nichole Sach’s method of journaling is called Journalspeak. Many people find it effective: https://www.yourbreakawake.com/journalspeak (JournalSpeak)

Expressive Writing is also another method of journaling: https://backincontrol.com/the-4-stages/stage-1-laying-the-foundation/begin-expressive-writing/ (Expressive Writing - Back in Control)

Alternately, the free program available at this website, will take you through the journaling and teach many more methods including many more methods: https://www.tmswiki.org/ppd/Structured_Educational_Program (Structured Educational Program) You'll notice the program starts at day 0, and suggests reading Sarno. I'm not sure your mind is fully grasping all his concepts at this time, so once again, I'll recommend you read his book again.

Your fixation with symptoms may simply be a form of anxiety, for which Claire Weekes offers amazingly precise advice, her methods are not a substitution for Dr. Sarno's methods, they work together in tandem.
You can find more here: https://www.tmswiki.org/ppd/Overcome_Anxiety_with_Dr._Claire_Weekes (Overcome Anxiety with Dr. Claire Weekes)

The fact that you have symptoms roving around that seem totally unrelated is a sign that they aren't physically related, they are psychologically related to your stress level. One of Dr. Sarno's first tenants is to think psychologically. You currently aren't there. You were for awhile, but the brain can really slide back into old habits, and sometimes we need a refresher.

 

[AlexandraJ99]

So, to answer my question:
You've read a book by Dr. Sarno
You worked with someone who was a chronic pain PT who was TMS informed. I'm not sure exactly what that means. Did they take you through Dr. Sarno's work, or did you actually do physical therapy?

I'm not concerned about your fixation with symptoms. They are pretty irrelevant here except for the fact that they are "speaking" to you, that there is something going on. This is absolutely the basis of Dr. Sarno's work.

You mention fear and an actual increase in fear, and fixation.
Which indicates that there is definitely more going on.

My suggestion is to re-read your Sarno book and note where he talks about personality and thought patterns.
Note where he suggests making three lists of things that are stressors in your life, and to write about those stressors. Here are three links about writing (or journaling):

The TMSWiki’s guide to journaling: https://www.tmswiki.org/ppd/How_do_I_journal%3F (How do I journal?)

Nichole Sach’s method of journaling is called Journalspeak. Many people find it effective: https://www.yourbreakawake.com/journalspeak (JournalSpeak)

Expressive Writing is also another method of journaling: https://backincontrol.com/the-4-stages/stage-1-laying-the-foundation/begin-expressive-writing/ (Expressive Writing - Back in Control)

Alternately, the free program available at this website, will take you through the journaling and teach many more methods including many more methods: https://www.tmswiki.org/ppd/Structured_Educational_Program (Structured Educational Program) You'll notice the program starts at day 0, and suggests reading Sarno. I'm not sure your mind is fully grasping all his concepts at this time, so once again, I'll recommend you read his book again.

Your fixation with symptoms may simply be a form of anxiety, for which Claire Weekes offers amazingly precise advice, her methods are not a substitution for Dr. Sarno's methods, they work together in tandem.
You can find more here: https://www.tmswiki.org/ppd/Overcome_Anxiety_with_Dr._Claire_Weekes (Overcome Anxiety with Dr. Claire Weekes)

The fact that you have symptoms roving around that seem totally unrelated is a sign that they aren't physically related, they are psychologically related to your stress level. One of Dr. Sarno's first tenants is to think psychologically. You currently aren't there. You were for awhile, but the brain can really slide back into old habits, and sometimes we need a refresher.

Thank you for providing all of these resources.

Somehow I forgot to mention I also joined briefly Dan Buglio’s Pain Free You group coaching program and religiously watched his daily videos for about 6 months. That in conjunction with the graded exposure exercises my PT gave me were what helped me overcome my symptoms.

Through Dan’s coaching he taught you didn’t have to directly fix the emotional stuff as symptoms are connected to fear keeping them alive and as along as you can train your brain to stop fearing the symptoms you can end them. But now that this might be my third mind-body symptom popping up I’m starting to wonder if maybe I do need to address the emotional stuff.

That is almost why I feel like this new and unusual symptom is coming up, because I have so successfully taught my brain that the other symptoms are not a physical problem so rather than giving me a flareup of those old symptoms it knows it has to give me something new. But I wonder if I don’t address the emotional stuff will this be the rest of my life? My brain always trying to come up with novel things so I fixate on myself. And I guess where I struggle is I don’t feel like a particularly emotional or stressed out person, EXCEPT when it comes to stuff related to my body. I am actually generally quite relaxed and happy although I did have a traumatic childhood with a dad with bipolar disorder who also fixated on his body, I’m sure where a lot of this comes from.




I have not gone through the program you linked. I will look at that one and also Nicole Sach’s as I keep seeing her name come up.

 

[JanAtheCPA]

But now that this might be my third mind-body symptom popping up I’m starting to wonder if maybe I do need to address the emotional stuff.

Indeed, I'm going to say this is a big old capital letters YES.

Dan B is super-popular and I suspect it's because people get great results with his de-emphasizing of the emotional work. Until they don't.

In my rather lengthy experience on this forum, the one thing I see over and over is that someone with adverse childhood experiences (referred to as ACEs) is much more likely to find that the non-emotional methods to control TMS symptoms only go so far.

As you make a commitment to doing the work, it might be helpful to take the well-known ACEs "quiz" that we often recommend (second time today for me!) and which I've described on this thread with a good link:
https://www.tmswiki.org/forum/threads/aces-quiz-online-printable-versions.27061/ (ACEs "quiz" - online & printable versions)
The quiz helps you to recognize the childhood experiences which are causing you to suffer in adulthood. It's a good starting point for "doing the work".

 

[AlexandraJ99]

Indeed, I'm going to say this is a big old capital letters YES.

Dan B is super-popular and I suspect it's because people get great results with his de-emphasizing of the emotional work. Until they don't.

In my rather lengthy experience on this forum, the one thing I see over and over is that someone with adverse childhood experiences (referred to as ACEs) is much more likely to find that the non-emotional methods to control TMS symptoms only go so far.

As you make a commitment to doing the work, it might be helpful to take the well-known ACEs "quiz" that we often recommend (second time today for me!) and which I've described on this thread with a good link:
https://www.tmswiki.org/forum/threads/aces-quiz-online-printable-versions.27061/ (ACEs "quiz" - online & printable versions)
The quiz helps you to recognize the childhood experiences which are causing you to suffer in adulthood. It's a good starting point for "doing the work".

I just took the quiz and not surprisingly I have ACE’s.

How is doing the emotional work from a chronic pains lens different than say, just going to therapy? I am genuinely curious. Over the years I have gone to therapy and done intensive journaling where everything gets dredged up and I basically cry for a month but I’m never left feeling any better.

Honestly, I have a deep resistance to “going there” again but I would be willing if it were to teach me to fundamentally react differently in these situations of a symptom popping up and to just have less fear of my body being my enemy. I really do want to change this part of me and while Dan’s work has been immensely helpful I guess it hasn’t taught me long-term coping skills.

I sincerely appreciate your insight on this topic, Jan!

Also, do you have any insight on Nicole Sach’s course? That is the one I would be leaning toward.

 

[Cactusflower]

The difference between TMS emotional work and some forms of therapy is that the TMS work is mind/body related. Your emotional state is looked at through the lense of your learned coping mechanisms and the ability to be vulnerable and to see the fact that you may operate in one way but your subconcious operates in a conflicting way.. which creates a deep and unrecognized anger.
There are many types of therapy but only a few types have been shown to be effective for TMS. CBT the most common form of therapy but is not shown to be effective.
No matter what form you use, you must also do the TMS work.
Few things I note in your posts: you feel you need support of someone or something. I believe you’ve learned much, and can do this on your own. Do you? You need to deeply understand that nobody else can “fix” this, and that you have it within you to do the TMS work yourself. All the courses in the world will just teach you skills, you need to employ the skills over your lifetime to deal with the internal stressors.
Seeing that you have Ace’s -you may also need therapy and that’s ok. ISDTP, IFS and EMDR are three forms of therapy that are considered effective for TMS in tandem with doing TMS work. Dr. Schubiner and his folks have created another successful therapeutic method which is currently available just through his services. I myself did EMDR with a therapist who also used ISF - she was not TMS informed but has worked extensively with chronic conditions and PTSD. It didn’t resolve my symptoms, but ended my suffering so that I continue to do the TMS work on my own with more confidence and less fear and anxiety. The PPD Association website has an excellent set of links for TMS informed therapists which would give you a combined approach if you’d prefer that.
Nichol’s program is self directed (it’s online content) although you can get access to some groups.
She hosts a podcast that may help.
I also suggest looking at YouTube videos from Tanner Murtagh and Pain Outside The Box - they both mix pain reprocessing with a psychological approach and a lot of the skills people like Dan Buglio teach. Might help you get an idea of what resonates with you.

 

[JanAtheCPA]

@AlexandraJ99, your response is so genuinely open and honest! And really helpful.

I should say up front that my only professional credentials are as a retired certified accountant, while my unprofessional credentials are based on 13 years of participation and observation on this forum. I have a number of thoughts for you, but it may take awhile to get them all out. @Cactusflower has given you some valuable things to look into based on her own experiences.

How is doing the emotional work from a chronic pains lens different than say, just going to therapy? I am genuinely curious. Over the years I have gone to therapy and done intensive journaling where everything gets dredged up and I basically cry for a month but I’m never left feeling any better.

Those of us like myself, with typical, not-perfect but reasonably functional childhoods, still come out of those childhoods with emotional brick walls in place. Nicole Sachs actually says that nobody escapes childhood unscathed. And here's the difference... Over the years of interacting here I've developed a visualization that individuals who are suffering in adulthood because of ACEs in childhood are not just facing an emotional brick wall - they are living within the confines of an emotional 10'x10' cement vault with 6 foot-thick walls, floor and ceiling.

A brick wall can come down with the help of anyone with a sledgehammer and good upper body strength. The cement vault requires a professional with a jackhammer.

Honestly, I have a deep resistance to “going there” again but I would be willing if it were to teach me to fundamentally react differently in these situations of a symptom popping up and to just have less fear of my body being my enemy. I really do want to change this

I have faith that it can be done. It's going to take longer and you'll have to work harder and it will take resolve and you'll really need to love yourself fiercely. The cement is there to protect you from being vulnerable to emotional pain, but you're going to have to be willing to be vulnerable, which, to your locked-down emotionally resistant brain, is the most terrifying thing there is.

In addition to finding the right kind of therapy, I think you might also really like Nicole's work as an everyday resource, and the best way for that is to go to her newly updated website where her podcast archive is now easy to find and supposedly search but I couldn't figure out how to easily get back to Season 1 Episode 1, which is from way back in 2018, so you can find that here: https://audioboom.com/posts/7051500-my-story (The Cure for Chronic Pain with Nicole Sachs, LCSW / My Story) or subscribe on your own podcast app.

Also listen to her recent episode S3E95 which is one of her member Q&A sessions to get an idea of what those are like. For the revamped website she's having a 30% off sale on her programs and membership in the community (normally only $99/month, cancel anytime and that might be worth checking out for a mere $69) but I think the sale ends today (July 31). In any case, the podcasts are always free, and I've always felt that listening to Nicole is like getting a personal therapy session with her, which she doesn't do anymore because she wants to spread the word to more people, and she seems to be succeeding.

More later, @AlexandraJ99. We're here for you.

~Jan

 

[Diana-M]

I did have a traumatic childhood with a dad with bipolar disorder who also fixated on his body, I’m sure where a lot of this comes from.

Hi Alexandra,
You are right to suspect your TMS is coming from emotions. And probably to start with, a bipolar Dad.