Is it bad to seek an apology from someone?

Mala said:
Totally agree. You can't change people, you can't change the past. The only thing you can change is yourself & your reactions to the external world.

This constant over analysis & dwelling on the past just makes you feel like a victim all over again. Your brain can't discern whether you are processing a past thought or event & thinks you are still stuck unhappy in the present. It will do everything it can to keep you in a TMS state of mind.

When I first started the TMS journey it was just Dr Sarno & the old TMS Forum. But it was simple & effective. Nothing today comes close to the simplicity of reading his books, listening to his lectures & then just getting back to normal activity. What was relevant then is still now & and in fact most of the success stories then & now are a testament to this fact.

If you have had yourself physically checked out & you believe you have TMS then you must move forward believing that your body is fine & not broken. This is the first premise towards recovery.

Next think psychologically about what is bothering you. Address the anger & the rage. Done? Now journal for a while. Feel slightly better? Good now move, get up, walk, cook , dance , paint your house, ski, do whatever it takes to make your mind believe you are OK. Better still find things that you enjoy doing.

And keep telling yourself that your body is fine. Remember the first premise.
Much of the discussion here on this forum has now become about less moving without fear & more about what’s going on in the mind, about the past & traumatic events.

Journalling will help but up to a point. It’s ok to write about the present but how reliable are your memories of your past.

Journalling or constantly thinking about certain events in the past can in fact do the opposite of helping. When Sarno said ‘think Psychologically’ I really think he did not mean for people to become self indulgent to the point where they are obsessing about it.

Would you rather keep delving into the past or would you rather get on with enjoying the present & the remaining days of your life by choosing not to live in fear.

Remember that not engaging in normal physical activities gives your unconscious mind all the more reason to reinforce the fact that you are broken.

'Overdwelling' reinforces feelings of fear. Its keeps you trapped, many use it as a crutch to not get physical coz its safer to dwell in that realm. So much of this forum is now about the psychology, the therapy which Sarno said not everyone needs. In fact he gave the number of 15 % as an example if I'm not wrong yet there are fewer & fewer posts about getting physical, moving & getting back to normal activities & more 'psychoanalysing' going on.

Most of our pain is rooted in unhappiness with OURSELVES whether that is a result of past events, more recent ones or even thinking about a future that has not manifested itself. The self is the only thing you can change. You can’t change the past, you can’t change who your parents are, your siblings, spouse but you can recognise certain behaviour patterns that arise as a result of your interaction with these ppl, get out of 'victim mode' & move towards a healthier mind & body.

I hope 2025 brings you all peace & happiness but most of all I hope its brings wisdom & clarity.

Mala
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Whilst I agree with much of what you have written here, I do wonder why you chose to talk about 'over dwelling' etc., about the past on this particular thread and didn't start a new thread of your own to impart your experience and views. I say this because in this thread @HealingMe wrote about one particular hurtful comment from when she was a teenager (or that was made to her about when she was a teenager, I'm not sure which) that she rightly or wrongly decided to seek an apology and perhaps an explanation for from her mother. Imo there was no indication that she was being 'over indulgent', 'obsessing' etc.

Relationships are all about communication. If @HealingMe had received the kind of response from speaking to her mother as I did when I spoke to my father about a past hurt (as I describe above) this would have been healing for @HealingMe and good for their relationship. And time will tell, but if @HealingMe's mother were to respond to her in future in a more circumspect and respectful way - like my mother did towards me after I brought up my past hurts with her (also as I describe above) - then that could make for a better relationship between them (if @HealingMe's mother isn't already now generally circumspect, respectful and kind to her as an adult). (And, yes, I do recognise, as I have also said in my posting above, that getting a helpful response is often not forthcoming and therefore might well prove to be a waste of time, but personally I think, from my own experience, it can be worth a try at least once to see if it makes a difference to a relationship.)

Also, I have to say that I have read a lot of the postings on that original TMS forum site that you mention and imo what an absolutely awful atmosphere, for the most part, there was on there! If anyone dared to say that they were improving or they had gotten better through using different techniques in addition to or instead of purely with what Dr Sarno advised, they usually received some very unpleasant and often quite nasty responses. There were a lot of imo Sarno 'zealots' on there who didn't care who they upset and seemed imo to get their kicks out of upsetting people, which I am certain will have put a lot of people off from going down the TMS/mind/body route. That site may have helped a number of people but will have put off many more. I therefore hope the forums on this Wiki never go down that route.
 
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I’m going to throw in my 2 cents here. First, I appreciated the article on forgiveness posted by @Duggit Thank you!

@Mala - I agree. I have discovered that over-dwelling on the past has harmed me at times. But it’s also difficult to tell where that line is sometimes, especially when you’re in the thick of it. In the end, it’s still a process of experimentation to find that right balance.

Overall, I feel this forum is absolutely about facing emotional and psychological issues and having the vulnerability to discuss them in the safe environment of the forum. Healing from TMS is foremost a psychological process. Personally, sharing about relationships and past hurts here has greatly helped me gain insight, healing and has helped me move forward. Of course, anyone not interested in these topics can obviously skip reading my posts. But I don’t believe these topics should be banned. I’m disappointed that @HealingMe met with anything less than complete support for sharing her thoughts, life and feelings. Even if you disagree with her process, and would like to counsel her otherwise, it can still be done in a compassionate way.

Everyone has SUCH A UNIQUE journey and experience with TMS. Different symptoms, different causes, different pasts, different circumstances. It’s not as easy for some of us to just “get physical” and heal. For some of us, we can barely move. (That’s me!) And there are lots of barriers to movement that I have had (and still have) to overcome. But I don’t give up hope. Many here have clawed their way out of worse circumstances than mine.

I think when offering advice, we shouldn’t assume that whatever worked for us is going to work the exact same way for someone else.

That said: we are better together!!! All advice is so useful here. Each person can weave that advice together into a successful path of their own. ❤️
 
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@HealingMe
Why should this situation be a “mistake”?
It’s learning, and we all learn by doing. Yes, I think seeking out apologies can backfire.
It did with me. Last year, around this time, someone messaged me to tell me I was horribly mean and a judgemental person. This stemmed from a conversation, where I posed the question asking if forgiveness would help them move on from constant rage and obsessive fixation on dead relatives, and that she could not control the living relatives to behave or think the way she wanted. I explained inner rage.
Of course that ended up festering because at the time I did not realize that her multiple diagnoses probably included narcissism (or should have).
Well, at first I apologized but then things went on and on…seeking more apologies. By then I saw it all clearly and ended the relationship.
Their seeking an apology really ended up in smoke because it was about them.
But.. the whole situation was a great way for me to deal with many emotions (and recognize how some relationships are just way too stressful to keep). I wrote an unsent letter, dealt with occasionally guilt by feeling the emotions and moved on.
Journaling is not a bad thing. One person’s experience and view is not that of others. I personally don’t journal much but have a book and space ready when I need to. Journaling as you know helps us express the emotion and learn to feel it and not have to constantly confront others about our emotions (learning to do this is such a fine balance). But people who deal with TMS the best seem to be folks who never stop utilizing TMS practices while they live life.
And I’d like to point out that this is exactly what you are doing. Living life isn’t just doing. It’s being in relationships full of goodness and of the guck of life and navigating it all.
You are doing it!
 
Diana-M said:
I’m going to throw in my 2 cents here. First, I appreciated the article on forgiveness posted by @Duggit Thank you!

@Mala - I agree. I have discovered that over-dwelling on the past has harmed me at times. But it’s also difficult to tell where that line is sometimes, especially when you’re in the thick of it. In the end, it’s still a process of experimentation to find that right balance.

Overall, I feel this forum is absolutely about facing emotional and psychological issues and having the vulnerability to discuss them in the safe environment of the forum. Healing from TMS is foremost a psychological process. Personally, sharing about relationships and past hurts here has greatly helped me gain insight, healing and has helped me move forward. Of course, anyone not interested in these topics can obviously skip reading my posts. But I don’t believe these topics should be banned. I’m disappointed that @HealingMe met with anything less than complete support for sharing her thoughts, life and feelings. Even if you disagree with her process, and would like to counsel her otherwise, it can still be done in a compassionate way.

Everyone has SUCH A UNIQUE journey and experience with TMS. Different symptoms, different causes, different pasts, different circumstances. It’s not as easy for some of us to just “get physical” and heal. For some of us, we can barely move. (That’s me!) And there are lots of barriers to movement that I have had (and still have) to overcome. But I don’t give up hope. Many here have clawed their way out of worse circumstances than mine.

I think when offering advice, we shouldn’t assume that whatever worked for us is going to work the exact same way for someone else.

That said: we are better together!!! All advice is so useful here. Each person can weave that advice together into a successful path of their own. ❤️
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I couldn't agree more, Diana-M!
Diana-M said:
I think when offering advice, we shouldn’t assume that whatever worked for us is going to work the exact same way for someone else.
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Indeed. In support of this one only has to read the success stories on the success story forum and to watch/listen to the success story testimonials on Helmut's and also Dan's YouTube channels to realise that people lose their TMS pain and other symptoms in all manner of ways, using and often combining all kinds of mind/body approaches and techniques.
 
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Inded, @HealingMe, your post really sparked an interesting discussion!

I had two thoughts when I read your post, and since they've been covered above, I'll just state here that they were, in this order:

Unsent Letter!
Expectations (and the internal pressure to have them met). Possibly related: the role of victimhood when developing expectations

Perhaps this is a good time to post an article that's been hanging out in my browser tab for a while - it's surprisingly profound for how short it is, and maybe it's relatable as you continue to process this incident: Regret can be all-consuming – a neurobehavioral scientist explains how people can overcome it (It's from The Conversation - a really great site for thoughtful articles on all kinds of topics).
 
And @Mala - my dear, I get where you're coming from, and I agree that the abundance of different resources is pretty overwhelming for our brains which want simplicity and certitude - but I have to accept the truth about reality and admit that that ship has sailed.

I'm also wary of so-called "Sarno purism" because there are a LOT of people who just can't go that route purely via self-help techniques. Do not forget that Dr. Sarno himself REJECTED many people who wanted to be in his programs, because he deemed them incapable of benefiting. I know for sure that he assessed some people as too psychologically impaired to be able to do the work without psychotherapy. We see people here all the time whose level of early trauma is so extreme that they don't just have walls between their rational brains and their unconscious irrational brains - they have 6-foot-thick cement vaults. And yet we still have to try to work with them as best we can.

Additional, we have the VAST majority of people out there in the world, who simply have absolutely no clue what any of this means. I believe that this is why some of the original practioners (like Alan) and a lot of new ones, are attempting to reach more people with more pragmatic and scientific (eg, neuroplasticity) information, rather than the emotional and psychological knowledge. The ultimate goal for all of us is to completely change the symptom-focused and alarmingly ineffective approach of traditional medicine in the face of what Nicole Sachs refers to as "an epidemic of fear and pain".

I will personally always go for the emotional/psychological approach (it's why I recommend Nicole and know virtually nothing about Dan) but there has GOT to be room for us to steer people towards the other approach so they can at least get started, and hopefully experience some change, even though our experience is telling us that it doesn't necessarily last - but even the amount time it takes before someone comes back to do the emotional work is wildly different for different people.

Anything that gets people out of the medical/pharmaceutical/surgical/physically-focused traditional model is the goal. I'm optimistic about the growing signs.
 
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JanAtheCPA said:
Inded, @HealingMe, your post really sparked an interesting discussion!

I had two thoughts when I read your post, and since they've been covered above, I'll just state here that they were, in this order:

Unsent Letter!
Expectations (and the internal pressure to have them met). Possibly related: the role of victimhood when developing expectations

Perhaps this is a good time to post an article that's been hanging out in my browser tab for a while - it's surprisingly profound for how short it is, and maybe it's relatable as you continue to process this incident: Regret can be all-consuming – a neurobehavioral scientist explains how people can overcome it (It's from The Conversation - a really great site for thoughtful articles on all kinds of topics).
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Thanks Jan!

I ended up using the Unsent Letter idea which felt good to address everything toward my mom. I'm relieved and I'm choosing to let things go and move on with my life. I'm choosing to be happy/create my happiness.
 
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