I was going to post a success story on an anti-depressant withdrawal forum

[JanAtheCPA]

Is it a daily coming and going, or less freequent like monthly?

Now, come on, Irish, you're a smart TMSer. This question means that you are falling into the trap of obsessing about details. That's your fearful brain - it's still doing a good job of distracting you from what's really important.

The answer is that I have no idea, because I simply don't care anymore. Also, I have other symptoms which disappeared completely back in 2011 and did not return. You can read my profile story if you want details.

I don't find this frustrating, because it has become clear that this is a totally normal aspect of how TMS acts uniquely for for each unique individual.

If you want to look at Dizziness-as-TMS, here is a thread for you: https://www.tmswiki.org/forum/threads/psycho-physiological-dizziness-syndrome-ppds.4599/ (Psycho-Physiological Dizziness Syndrome (PPDS))

 

[Dorado]

The dizziness and balance PT that I consulted in 2011 wanted me to go on the "migraine diet" so I found a forum discussing migraines and diet - and none of it made any sense. I was ready to laugh by the time I read the post from someone who was convinced that she stopped having migraines when she stopped eating avocados. But then I read a post from someone who said that he stopped having migraines when he read The Divided Mind, by, of course, Dr. John Sarno.

The reason I quoted you, Dorado, is that the poor guy who posted about Dr. Sarno was seriously abused in many subsequent posts by people who were highly offended that he would DARE to suggest that their migraines were anything other than pathologically-based, but it was the first thing I had read on that forum that I was able to take seriously. I switched over to my public library website, downloaded the book, and never looked back. I also didn't go back to the dizziness clinic.

The elimination of avocados eliminating migraines? Wow, talk about one heck of a placebo effect. It's like when someone goes to a naturopath for fibromyalgia, takes a few herbs, and claims they're cured. I always hope they find out the real truth one day. I guarantee these people are going to develop different mind-body/TMS symptoms because they still need some sort of distraction. Fibromyalgia forums one day, chronic Lyme forums the next. The cycle will repeat until they understand the mind-body connection.

I'm so glad you picked up that Sarno book!

 

[Duende]

Oooh, I can't do this anymore.

Excuse me I do not want to live like this. Constant symptoms everyday. I'm so fed up, I want to return to home I understand everything, I have read already everything, a shelf full of books, my therapist "unofficially" TMS but deep down she is proposing exactly the same thing in other words... but I'm so uncomfortable with my symptoms and I'm so afraid that it's always this way...

I'm sorry for this negativity, I know you've been in this place, and sometimes I see light, sometimes I do not see any hope, one day yes and another day no, in a cycle without end. I feel trapped, completely stuck! I had minimal control of my life even when I was anxious and depressed, but now I have no control, I can start shaking and crying in the middle of the park with my children, and I feel shame and feel guilty.

I am going to post my story, I think it's a story with nothing special, and surely I'll delete it, I'm so ashamed :drowning:

 

[Rosebud]

Please don't be ashamed.

 

[Dorado]

@Duende, I promise you are not alone. You will prevail. I know you don’t want to live like this - and you don’t have to. Trust me, I’ve been there and know exactly what you’re going through. Please do not feel ashamed. We are open to everybody’s story and want to help you. You belong here as much as everybody else and we are glad you’re with us.

I really do know what it’s like. My withdrawal symptoms were a nightmare, but they only ended when I stopped being afraid of them. I know it’s hard, but the fact that they make you so uncomfortable brings you fear, which makes you obsess over them. And the more you obsess over them, the more they come on. You have to break the stress, fear, obsession cycle. This can be done and is absolutely possible for everyone!

It took a major life event for me to stop obsessing over my withdrawal symptoms. Sometimes I’d have good days where I thought I was totally healed; other times I’d have bad days where I’d wonder when it was all going to end. I was so upset by the fact that they weren’t completely gone. But then the event happened, and I suddenly had no time to fear or obsess over them... until one day I realized they were gone. Because I stopped being scared of them throughout the day.

You said you were previously on withdrawal forums. That is why you’re scared - you’re still thinking this is permanent and dangerous because you’ve been reading that for a long time. But rest assured it’s neither permanent nor dangerous. I promise you’re going to be OK. I have spoken to so many experts on withdrawal being mind-body symptoms/TMS, including Dr. Howard Schubiner and Steve Ozanich. Permanent withdrawal is a myth. Your brain is highly plastic and heals itself!

You have nothing to be ashamed of. Life can be really tricky and we all need support sometimes. It can take time to reach your goals. It’s important to be patient, as hard as that may seem right now. Stick with mind-body/TMS.

 

[Dorado]

OK, I just read the story in your profile,@Duende. You’ve been through so much. It’s clear that your sympathetic nervous system was in overdrive before the SSRI and Valium, and the medications calmed your nervous system down. However, going off them was a shock because withdrawal can temporarily (not permanently!) make your sympathetic nervous system sensitive again. This is what happened to me with Cymbalta withdrawal so I 100% understand. This does not mean you have to take medications forever!

Remember what I said about one of the few doctors who studied withdrawal noting that although patients’ serotonin receptors had recovered, their sympathetic nervous systems were still stuck in overdrive, driving their symptoms and making it feel like they never recovered? This is the mind-body connection/TMS. Nothing you are going through is permanent. You’re just in fight-or-flight mode right now, and you can turn it off! It's not forever.

Before taking the medications you were incredibly stressed out. This stress made your sympathetic nervous system go in overdrive, which causes all types of (temporary!) symptoms. The symptoms made you fear you had MS. But your doctors gave you the clear after performing the appropriate testing and said there is no MS present. This is common - stress is responsible for an endless list of symptoms! Then the symptoms went away with the medications because they soothed your sympathetic nervous system.

So what happens now? You need to calm your sympathetic nervous system by relaxing and enjoying life. It’s all about managing powerful emotions and the desire to achieve perfectionism, and getting back to fully living your life again. What makes you happy? Reading with your children, petting a black cat, smelling some flowers, listening to music, closing your eyes and envisioning happiness while taking some nice deep breaths, etc.?

Your story is anything but shameful. In fact, we can all relate to it on here. Perfectionism and being highly analytical are extremely common TMS traits. So many of us are successful business professionals, athletic, living lives others may envy from the outside, etc. We are quite often so good and so sharp, we drive ourselves into the ground. But we can get back up and have incredible lives again. Read the success stories and don’t go back to the withdrawal forums.

Also, your MS symptoms disappearing while on medications proves that it was all mind-body/TMS. Once you relax again, you’ll be free of this. And I mean it when I say you will overcome this!

Thank you for sharing your story with us. We are here for you.

 

[Duende]

Oh thank you very much, Dorado. I appreciate your effort to explain everything so well.

I was always a girl who understood everything very quickly. Without a doubt I am still that person, so: yes, I have understood everything perfectly, I have caught the idea. After all, this is what all the great religions of the world have been saying for thousands of years: don't worry, have faith, trust, focus on the good and live, because you are well cared for and safe.

So, I got the idea, now I need to get to the task, and it will be, by far, the hardest thing to do in my whole life, and look: I've done difficult things huh.

I stick with TMS, as you say. That's for sure. But I feel like I have to disconnect a bit to focus on what's important. Thanks to everyone here!

 

[Dorado]

Totally understood about needing to disconnect for a bit. We’re always here for you when you need us! Remember that the body is designed to heal, and symptoms that don’t seem to heal after the body typically would means an emotional process is keeping the symptoms around. I will reiterate that I’ve had this validated for me personally by the best of the best (multiple doctors at the best top-ranked hospitals you can find, Steve Ozanich, TMS doctors like Dr. Howard Schubiner, etc.), and know it to be true for a fact.

Go do something you enjoy! And remember that many of us have been where you are today and are now feeling amazing.

 

[Dorado]

Slightly off topic: You know you've made progress with your hardcore perfectionism when you don't berate yourself for putting a hyphen in the word antidepressant out of habit for whatever reason. I think I've been making some improvements. Two years ago I would've never been able to look at this thread again.

 

[NameK]

Glad I stumbled across this post I know even though there are success stories on health fourm websites I need to stay away from them. While it's great to read about a positive story on how someone overcame tinnitus you still see people being negative on a success story post.

And I've quickly learned that every fourm like that has the same type of people (overly anxious/ depressed people who dont have hope that it will improve or get better and they think they have it for life etc) it also becomes their life.

and I've thought that way too but where does it get you ? No where it just makes it worse.

Thnaks to another member on this fourm I also stumbled across a guy on YouTube who had an overcame tinnitus ( even noise induced) so I'm not going to believe the people who say ph if its noise induced it doesnt leave. How do you explain the people who recovered then?

I've learned alot about it and the best advice I've gotten is to simply ignore it which is like every tms symptom but with the way my brain works its easier said then done of course. But with time I'm sure I will get there.

 

[Dorado]

@NameK, you're one of us! By that I mean we all understand health anxiety on TMS Wiki. And we've had incredible success stories happen on here. You are not alone, and as I always say, you're going to be OK. You will not be another horror story on a health forum.

Thnaks to another member on this fourm I also stumbled across a guy on YouTube who had an overcame tinnitus ( even noise induced) so I'm not going to believe the people who say ph if its noise induced it doesnt leave. How do you explain the people who recovered then?

You are 100% correct to be suspicious. That dude is straight up wrong. Whether tinnitus is noise induced or not means nothing. Some of my nerve symptoms didn't happen until I was drinking, vaping, or smoking - but it was still psychosomatic. The sympathetic nervous system responds to stimuli, including sounds and countless other things, when it's stressed out. Some people even develop certain allergies or multiple chemical sensitivities when they're going through a lot emotionally, and then realize the symptoms subside when they finally relax.

One of my neurologists told me that my body was so stressed out from my emotional stress, it was responding to all chemicals like they were attacking to my body. I thought he was full of it until I relaxed and healed, and now I'm able to have my favorite champagne again without any nerve pain.

Look at this - it's not specific to tinnitus, but emotional exhaustion literally leads to sensitivity to noise (and this also applies to men, so forget the focus on women): https://www.everydayhealth.com/depression/emotional-exhaustion-can-lead-to-noise-sensitivity.aspx (Emotional Exhaustion Can Lead to Noise Sensitivity)

The dude on YouTube could learn a thing or two! Some people on TMS Wiki didn't have back pain until they lifted something heavy. For this reason, they were convinced the pain was real. But in many of these the cases, the emotional stress was what made them so sensitive to lifting. Had they not been stressed out, they wouldn't have had the reaction they did to the lifting. Walt Oleksy is just one of many great examples of this.

I've learned alot about it and the best advice I've gotten is to simply ignore it which is like every tms symptom but with the way my brain works its easier said then done of course. But with time I'm sure I will get there.

It's all about not fearing the symptoms and recognizing them as harmless and temporary. As long as you aren't afraid and truly believe you're safe, the symptoms can't win. This is more important than ignoring the symptoms.

 

[NameK]

Yeah honestly it's crazy what chronic anxiety and stress can cause our bodies to feel,do etc. But most people wouldn't put the two together.

Like my mom has psoriasis that is stress induced. My brother has ibs again stress related.

But something's aren't always like gout if I'm not mistaken which can be stopped by not eating and drinking certain foods.​

 

[Dorado]

Believe it or not, even gout can be affected by stress. Stress can affect uric acid levels in ways that are very similar to certain foods and drinks. The mind-body connection affects even structural illnesses. I've spoken about this as an Ehlers-Danlos patient. I absolutely have the disease - it's congenital and never going away, but stress can make some of the symptoms come on and/or feel a million times worse, especially symptoms tied to autonomic dysfunction. People with Ehlers-Danlos tend to have autonomic dysfunction, and you know what aggravates an already sensitive autonomic nervous system? Stress because it activates fight-or-flight (sympathetic) mode!

No, managing my emotions won't prevent me from dislocating my shoulders or help me make collagen correctly, but it does help with many other Ehlers-Danlos symptoms for me.

Look at this: https://www.urmc.rochester.edu/encyclopedia/content.aspx?contenttypeid=85&contentid=p00053 (Gout - Health Encyclopedia - University of Rochester Medical Center)

It says: Gout attacks may be triggered by any of these:

• Drinking alcohol
  
  
• Eating a lot of protein-rich foods
  
  
• Emotional stress
  
  
• Tiredness (fatigue)
  
  
• Illness
  
  
• Minor surgery

That's why my icon is a self-proclaimed AIDS poster boy from the very early 80s. He spoke many times about how positive attitudes affected AIDS and its opportunistic infections. He was from a time when there were absolutely no medications for HIV/AIDS. If he can have a good outlook, why shouldn't I?

 

[NameK]

That's crazy and very true I used to be like that so why can't I be now?

I have read that some EDS patients dont experience symptoms (mostly the pain ones etc)as if most of them didnt know they had it until later on in life.

That's the thing about us humans is nobody is 100%percent we all have our genetic differences that make us unique.

I didnt need glasses full time until I 17 my vision isnt tms it's not gonna magically get better unless I maybe get laser eye surgery down the road. But glasses dont bother me enough to risk that lol

 

[Dorado]

I do suspect that many symptoms of Ehlers-Danlos are caused by stress. Again, when you have a disease where the autonomic nervous system's sympathetic response is heightened, you're going to be affected by stress. I can't believe this connection gets missed all the time on Ehlers-Danlos forums (which I no longer visit)! It's interesting to me that many Ehlers-Danlos stories are from young women who started developing pain in college (a very stressful time for many people). It's common to hear about people developing nerve pain, POTS, worsened mast cell disease, etc. during periods of stress such as the college years.

Antidepressant withdrawal is an example of something the body should heal from, and when it doesn't, it's stress and powerful emotions. The forums love to post scientific articles on how antidepressants physically change the structure of your brain. Well yeah, so does learning how to speak a new language, exercising, going through a stressful time, etc. The brain is changing all the time because of how incredibly plastic it is. You can change your brain doing many things. And the truth is that people heal all the time from antidepressant withdrawal - it doesn't have to be a permanent issue.

Those forums are not a good place to be. I do debate all the time whether I'll create an account and share a success story, but I'm just not sure it'll be worth it given the negativity. I've already had several people reach out after coming from antidepressant forums and reading this particular post of mine - I'll just have to hope more people keep finding TMS Wiki!

 

[NameK]

Yeah you'll probably receive alot of backlash because people are stuck in their ways and unfortunately believe it's another snake oil / if it worked for you it wont work for me kind of attitude.

And yeah your right it seems to be alot of people in their early to mid twenties who discover they have ot because they dislocate their arm and find out they have it.


It's no different when I was having chronic pelvic pain symptoms. Half the people swear you have to stretch everyday twice a day for months and or see a pshyiotherapist who specializes in that area (but for men it's hard to find and expensive) plus I'm pretty sure there was a study done on it and I think it proved to mostly be placebo.

But some of those poor people end up going to the wise Anderson clinic in California. Which in my opinion is a RIP off but people get desperate. That costs $6000 not including your plane ride and they give you a wand to use and teach you how to use it etc you work with their specialized pshyiotherapists and then therec is also the pshylogical part which isnt much different then tms in anyway it focuses on relaxation techniques and distressing etc

And in my opinion that's the part that actually helps but you cant really make money of just that part. And for some people it didnt even work.

But one good thing about being on one of those fourms is thanks to ezer and carbonevo I found this site

 

[winterprev]

Hello Everyone.

I am so glad you have started this thread. I have been weaning off of Lexapro for over a year now. Started at 15mg and now I am down to 0.50mg. I was dropping really slow then I said screw it and dropped about .25mg yesterday during a discovery period in the middle of a flare up of my TMS. This time around I think I have a better handle on it. I have realized that everything I have done is from fear. Fear of what foods I eat, fear of withdrawal symptoms, fear of what my wife will think, fear of what other people will think (not about antidepressants but just in general). Every little thing was about fear and my body has been protecting me from it. Then my mind would always try and find a solution why things are happening. Ohhh I have some anxiety its because of the medicine drop or its because I didnt take my vitamin B5. Screw that. I am so sick of it.

I have really started using outcome independence to get a handle on this as well as other things. Another interesting thing is I had bad pelvic pain issues when i started the antidepressant (thought I had cancer or who knows what) and they all resolved once I started the antidepressant and I didn't care. Lexapro made me not care and not worry. Great drug but I dont want to live my life on it. When I didnt worry I had no problems. IBS really went away, I enjoyed my life alot more. Albeit I drank alot more booze but i was okay. I didnt constantly beat myself up over things. I was better.

My point to this, is that before I started withdrawal symptoms I already learned about them because I googled every little darn thing about antidepressants during when I was taking them. Because I was still living in fear. In the back of our minds we never forget that fear and how it has a hold on us. Someone would say they felt great when stopping the medicine then after two weeks they will get all sorts of symptoms. I would remember that and then BAM, same stuff happens. Maybe there is truth to that but I find it utter crap. I am not going to live in fear and I am going to drop this antidepressant quicker and stop living in fear. I have weaned so slow so far that I am ready to do it and I dont care what comes. It may suck but I am going to fight it and use mindfulness and support from this site and TMS healing. its time to step up and fight. Instead of being in this trance of fear, anxiety and everything else that keeps us from living in the now.

It would be nice to keep this discussion alive for others that need it.

 

[music321]

Thanks for this topic. As someone that's been affected by chronic withdrawal issues, I'm starting to realize that I really can put all of it behind me and get back to normal.

 

[NameK]

Yep I'm feeling the same way about tinnitus the less I worry about it the better and I'm not purposely going into quite rooms to listen for it anymore.

That being said I still want to protect my ears in environments where its necessary (concert, loud bar and or club) as I dont want to be deaf by the time I'm 60 aha.
I have faith it will eventually fade over time. Since my fear I think is starting to diminish about it.

 

[Chache55]

Hello i have no clue how i came upon this forum i was just searching online about anxiety and panic attacks and came upon this post and share so much in common with the post i am a perfectionist i have been on every anxiety forum and message board, this post insipired me to sign up i have no clue what tms or what this message board is about, not sure if its aloud im sure someone will delete it but i was diagnosed with panic attacks and anxiety and depression when i was 14 i am 39 now have had bad months days good months days for years lately though have been struggling really bad, i stopped going to work july 2017 because of my anxiety and panic attacks this was a union job that i had been at for 15 years, at the present i have applied for disability and basically dont leave my house anymore at all, cant remember the last time i was happy or excited about anything even while i was working... i have been on different meds the only one i havent stopped taking was clonzaepam that i have been on since i was 17 i take that daily i struggle with meds my doc prescribes i dont take was prescribed other ssri even did a gene test to find out paxil was not good for me i had taken that off and on for years recently stopped that cold turkey, always wonder the effect the clonazepam has had on me for all these years taking it, just wanted to share my brief story and thanks for the post found alot of similarities to myself, im in the midst of trying the DARE program i remember claire weeeks when i was younger the name was familiar to me