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Hysterical vs psychosomatic!?

Discussion in 'General Discussion Subforum' started by thecomputer, Dec 8, 2016.

  1. thecomputer

    thecomputer Well known member

    I have just been reading the divided mind by Sarno.

    He describes a symptom I had for years which has now progressed into something different in my throat.

    Globus hystericus, the feeling of a lump in the throat. He writes that it is clearly a hysterical disorder rather than psychosomatic. I don't quite understand the difference. I read back over the section in the mind body prescription, but still feel confused.

    Can anyone clear up what the difference is between psychosomatic, hysterical, tms, and tms equivalents. Are they all not physical problems that originate in the brain/mind?

  2. Gigalos

    Gigalos Beloved Grand Eagle

    I don't have this particular book and I don't understand what he means by a hysterical disorder.
    What is the difference between psychosomatic, hysterical, tms etc.?? I don't know and when I read about it, it doesn't become clear either. Like many other "disorders" that have a psychological interaction, there are many theories and explanations about what is really happening. The DSM is in many places nothing more than the momentary (or economically driven) opinion of the majority of "experts" (in my opinion :) )
    I see it as unnecessarily complicating things, so therefore I think you are 100% correct by saying that they are all physical problems that originate from the mind. I would rather say psychophysiological symptoms that originate from the mind, because many symptoms are a mixture of both.

    The globus hystericus, which I think is a poorly chosen name because it suggests that you have to be hysterical to suffer from it, is driven by emotions and is often seen with people who suffer from anxiety or depression. I know the feeling personally from when I suffered from mild depression many years ago. When you keep focusing on it, you can become so anxious that you might even enter a state of panic. Maybe this is why he uses the word hysterical, because to an outsider it looks like you greatly overreact to something benign ????

    I read something that the muscle in play mainly is the one that keeps your throat closed so you won't drown when submerged in water. So it has its function in survival-states (fight, flight).
    the mechanism: initial onset (something that initiates a survival reaction; brewing emotions like in the TMS theory or a real threat that is consciously or unconsciously perceived) -> lump in the throat from tightened muscles (survival reaction) -> hyper-vigilance (hyperfocus on the survival reaction) -> fear or even panic (about the initial survival reaction) ......you have now entered the vicious circle ........-> lump in the throat stays around or gets worse -> hyper-vigilance continues -> fear or panic continues -> .....etc. etc..
    and if you follow Sarno, you are now fully occupied by the symptoms instead of possible emotions that are brewing in the background.

    treat it like any other psychophysiological symptom: don't worry about it, just accept the lump to be there, because it is benign and it is generated by emotions. Once your mind learns that you won't fight or fear the feeling, it doesn't see it as a threat anymore (or it acknowledges that it has lost its function to distract you from brewing emotions) and the physical reaction will subside (or changes to another location in your body).

    easily said, doing it is something that can be rather difficult... but always keep in mind that, unless a doctor tells you otherwise, the lump-feeling is caused by a benign reaction to some sort of threat.

    eager to learn what other have to say about this, hope it helps you.
  3. thecomputer

    thecomputer Well known member

    Hi thanks for your reply. It doesn't seem very clear cut, yet Sarno seems to say something js quote obviously hysterical as opposed to tms etc.

    Quite confusing!

    I don't have Globus hystericus anymore, but I have a chronic problem with my throat related to speaking or voice use.

    I'm more interested in filling in the many gaps in my understandong of tms and sarnos ideas so I can fully embrace the diagnosis. I'm too logocal and sceptical to just skim over it!

    So yeah if anyone else has anything to add? Especially regarding the sentences I've mentioned in the book

  4. thecomputer

    thecomputer Well known member

    Ok I just read anotger bit in the divided mind.

    So it seems that hysterical refers to pains etc that are created on the brain/mind, wuth no change to tissue. Where as with TMS, apparently the change is a reduction of oxygen in tissues, which seems to be up for debate in itself. ?

    But what's strange is he says Globus hystericus is obviously hysterical, hence the name....but from what I know certain muscles and the sphincter that stops food going down your windpipe is contracting. So maybe not a lack of oxygen, but muscles are moving, and being controlled by the brain. Is that still hysterical?

    Can anyone clear this up!
  5. JanAtheCPA

    JanAtheCPA Beloved Grand Eagle

    Hey there robodelfy - and welcome to the forum.

    Look, we're talking about the human brain, here. That mostly-still-unknowable mass of neurons and what-all made of of very high grade protein. All we know for sure is that on some level, whether higher-order consciousness, or lowest-level autonomic, the brain is in charge of every physiological process in your body. And it is a fact, becoming increasingly more established by scientific study, that our thoughts - both conscious and unconscious - affect our physiology in ways that are really quite astonishing.

    In other words, I don't believe that these fine distinctions you are trying to grasp matter one single bit. Obsessing about them is a distraction. This obsession is just another indication that your negative brain is continuing to repress what is REALLY going on in your emotional unconscious, in favor of distracting you with word games about neuro-physiological phenomena.

    Unless you are a researcher in neuroscience, I guarantee you, IT DOES NOT MATTER.

    If you have a condition that is related to some kind of emotional stress, usually the result of emotional repression, then it is a mind-body symptom. Proceed accordingly, and start working on your hidden repressed negative emotions.

    It's time to start thinking psychological, and let go of the physical.

    Forget about this question, start doing the SEP, and good luck on your new journey!

  6. thecomputer

    thecomputer Well known member

    Thanks for the reply Jan and the firm direction!

    Younarr right, it's just hard to read in sarnos book a sentence that I can't understand and then not get some clarity about what it means. But I think ive got it now anyway!
  7. Steve Ozanich

    Steve Ozanich TMS Consultant

    When you get to a certain depth of understanding TMS you will see that these types of questions are a defense mechanism, after a certain point in understanding.

    In the beginning however they are normal and part of the gathering stage of the first pillar. But then at a later stage they become a means of avoiding healing. Dr. Sarno clearly stated in DM regarding hysterical and psychosomatic that "the psychology of both is identical." So he put that debate to rest within the same sentence. He is a great writer in many direct and subtle ways.

    I believe the "difference" between psycho and hysteria could be defined by the depth of fear, across the limina. That refers to McKenzie's brilliant work on the Two Trauma Mechanism and the helplessness at the time of separation. Globus is a reaction to loneliness as I described in GPD. But any equivalents that arise can be further divided into the states of helplessness that McKenzie has brilliantly identified, like losing the ability to speak, paralysis, asthma, etc. The further back you go in time the more "infantile" the equivalents because of the brain development (the child is more helpless). But this all means nothing as far as your healing, Jan said it well, it does not matter, and she said it in all caps so that means trust her. I do.
  8. thecomputer

    thecomputer Well known member

    Thanks for the reply Steve. I will take what you say on board! I plan to start the structured educational program today, and the next book after the divided mind is yours.

    Yesterday I had the best day with my voice and throat problem for 6 months. I had the first proper conversations I've had in so long. I had just been on a raw fruit and veg diet, and normally would attribute it to that as it's kore 'physical'! But deep in me I feel it was reading the mind body prescription and learning more and more about tms. A good sign!

    It's strange, because I have been a practising Buddhist for years and read and felt I understood so many similar concepts, but something is changing now it seems, and I have to put it down to the books!

    I'm also apprehensive about even writing that as its only been a couple of days of relative ease, and I don't want to speakd to soon.

    Thanks again guys :)
    JanAtheCPA likes this.
  9. Steve Ozanich

    Steve Ozanich TMS Consultant

    I remember an interview Dr. Sarno was doing when he was talking about how his voice would disappear when he was stressed and his voice suddenly disappeared for a few seconds during the interview. It's all about obsession, energy and focus. And if the driver of those is fear instead of love the results are unpleasant.

    It's wisdom that will heal you and the pathway to wisdom is knowledge. Everyone heals who "fully" accepts TMS. Give it time and remember the #1 mistake made in healing.

  10. thecomputer

    thecomputer Well known member

    Thanks again Steve! You speak the truth. I'm just starting your book :)

    I feel some progress since reading the Sarno books. I have a lot of faith in this diagnosis for many things, even though a few weeks ago I had never heard of it.

    But part of my problem is physical, in that I can see it in my throat. This is making it much harder to believe it's TMS, even though I'm sure it could be. If you get a chance, maybe you could look at this thread I made, and say whether you think chronic granular pharyngitis could be TMS. ? It's not mentioned anywhere online or in the books, but many skin conditions and things like ulcers are, so surely any chronic inflammation could be? I'm a bit confused

    http://www.tmswiki.org/forum/threads/chronic-pharyngitis-tms.14379/#post-76139 (Chronic pharyngitis, tms?)
  11. Steve Ozanich

    Steve Ozanich TMS Consultant

    I'm probably not the best person to answer this question, but you are. What do you believe?

    I had chronic everything, sore red throats, swollen knees, swollen glands, rheumatic fever, constant colds. I've seen people heal through TMS healing who had lifelong infections, bumps, lumps and stumps. They have healed from itching, twitching and some bitching. Many had severe redness and heat/cold, weakness and numbness. They tell me about every imaginable physical issue such as ankylosing spondylitis and MS, and from cramping prostates to vibrating vaginas. The brain will do anything it can to block the truth and it has carte blanche to do so from superego (at the behest of ego itself).

    I'm of the belief that everything is TMS until proven otherwise. But I can't just say that or someone may get hurt, or die. We have to be responsible for our own health. Some have such deep issues that they will die; even though it will have been mindbody they simply couldn't overcome the rage and shame. Not only because they don't have the proper tools or support they need, but they also don't know the problems even exist because they cast their fear into their shadow. The symptoms are messages to you from yourself.

    Everything is TMS with a rare few exceptions. Talk to Evy McDonald, Dr. Sarno and Gabor Mate, Stephen Flynn, and watch The Connection. I've had people email me that healed from cancers including stage 4. So why would yours be "real." By real of course I don't mean yours is imaginary, but why wouldn't yours be driven by the unknown? Consciousness and energy?

    Get tested by modern means and if you're not in danger then jump with both feet onto the TMS rollercoaster and hang on for life, yours.

    So what do you believe? Whatever you believe "in your heart" is what will happen. If you believe there's something physically wrong with you then your brain will adapt to your belief and make it so. If you find a placebo cure that pleases you then you may heal, temporarily.

    I hope that makes a little sense, in time you may see clearer, but you have to want to heal, few do. Jungian Analyst Paul Benedetto, RP, gave me a great quote for my new book, "Shadow is the unknown, there are few things more frightening, and therefore resisted." People have to want to heal, and a few that do want to heal are not yet ready. What is one sign that they're not ready? They try to exclude themselves from TMS by every means possible.

  12. thecomputer

    thecomputer Well known member

    Hi Steve

    Thanks for detailed response. I appreciate it, and it makes a lot of sense. Just remember that a few weeks ago I knew nothing of tms and even though I've tried many alternative routes other than western medicine, I never truly believed an unconscious process could be the sole cause for a physical problem. This is where tms came in and started to blow my mind.

    I am a cynic, a sceptic, and a doubter, so treading carefully is my usual approach which I know may hold me back a bit. But I am truly open to possibilities and not hoping for a miracle cure.

    It seems very possible that a load of red bumps and soreness in my throat with no apparent cause could be tms, especially as we know skin conditions can be. I think it's just easy to think something is TMS if you can't see any physical symptoms of it. It just stretches your mind a little further, but it's no less plausible in a way.

    I'm keeping reading. Doing the structured program, and posting doubts here every so often, as they get softened by other members which ja really helpful.

    I like that quote....I always remember Jung saying 'neurosis is always a substitute for legitimate suffering'.

    Neurosis or TMS maybe!

    Thanks again, and I hope this helps the next person in my position, as I didn't see another thread about this subject
    Asherman27 and JanAtheCPA like this.

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