How far we have gotten from Sarno

[JohnDellatto]

Sorry but I don't fully agree with that idea John. I had CRPS for about 5 years and had a spinal cord stimulator that never worked as well as later on thoracic outlet for two plus and got better from both rather quickly once I deidentified with them and stopped paying attention to them. I had always gone with the just get on with it and not really done much else. I had done the same for some horrid knee pain. I don't want people to be set up that this has to take years even if it can. Each timeline is individual and I do believe things can change quickly. It's also okay if you are slower on the process, there's no right or wrong to this

How long did it take you to get better? If someone has only had chronic pain for 5 years then i wouldnt be surprised for that person to even take 6 months. People with decades of pain and its all over their body arent getting better fast. Its hard to find stories of people in that state as it is but then finding a recovery story where it even took them a year is impossible. The fastest ive seen was someone with cfs who had it for 20+ years and she got better in a few months.

 

[Recoverytime2024!]

I don't know to be honest, once I started telling people was pretty much gone went fast. Maybe a few months. I was in the middle of PA school and had a broken bone my brain also deemed more important. Was most likely around 3-4 months. Once that healed and I saw the change I knew and has not tricked me since. I think there are plenty with years of pain who get better fast and plenty who takes longer. Not sure we can ever fully explain individual recovery rates

 

[Rusty Red]

Sorry but I don't fully agree with that idea John. I had CRPS for about 5 years and had a spinal cord stimulator that never worked as well as later on thoracic outlet for two plus and got better from both rather quickly once I deidentified with them and stopped paying attention to them. I had always gone with the just get on with it and not really done much else. I had done the same for some horrid knee pain. I don't want people to be set up that this has to take years even if it can. Each timeline is individual and I do believe things can change quickly. It's also okay if you are slower on the process, there's no right or wrong to this

And I've been trying the just go on with it approach and I'm in the worst pain of my life and can no longer run or lift. It just doesn't work the same for everyone.

 

[Recoverytime2024!]

I would agree, different approaches for different people, and at different times. Not saying that's the only way at all! You can get there, some is trial and error!

 

[Diana-M]

Yes, and the ones that just get it and cure fast may have a harder time explaining it to the ones who seem to get it but not quite produce the same results. We can't transplant brains. Another analogy here, the same coach trains a whole team of players, after one demo usually one or two of the players get it and put it in practice without too much explanation, and there would be a bigger portion working on it but just not quite there yet. As long as each player keeps working on it following the right principles, each player would improve in their own pace.

I guess I disagree with the concept that someone is “good” at doing this—and thereby better than those who take more time. We are talking about an ocean of subconsciousness. It’s not understandable. Nobody understands their subconscious. Not even those who get a book cure from reading Sarno. Someone might have unspeakable childhood horrors, for example, hidden in their subconscious, and maybe their subconscious is so protective of them that it vaults up tight. This is actually a superior action by the subconscious. Maybe someone else has TMS, but didn’t have the same causes behind their TMS. Their subconscious cooperates easier. Now, let’s take into account personalities. They say 2 kids from the same abusive family will weather the experience differently. My younger sister was always angry as a child. She reacted with aggression to things. Her therapist said it saved her. I was passive and helpful. My sister doesn’t have TMS. I do. This is just a small example. And then there’s how long you’ve had TMS. Catching an episode early is like using a paper towel to wipe up a spill. Trying to repair a disregulated nervous system after literally a lifetime of fight or flight and TMS symptoms for decades is like salvaging a flooded house after a hurricane. You can’t even compare the two. These are only theories (mine) as to why Sarno methods don’t work immediately for some people. But it doesn’t mean Sarno is wrong or the slow healer isn’t smart enough to grasp what to do. This is ALL mysterious. And that’s why it’s so essential we have each other. We are pioneers in this process. We can help each other.

 

[JohnDellatto]

I don't know to be honest, once I started telling people was pretty much gone went fast. Maybe a few months. I was in the middle of PA school and had a broken bone my brain also deemed more important. Was most likely around 3-4 months. Once that healed and I saw the change I knew and has not tricked me since. I think there are plenty with years of pain who get better fast and plenty who takes longer. Not sure we can ever fully explain individual recovery rates

True, there's no way to explain recovery rates. There are too many factors involved that professionals know about and then all the factors they don't understand because there is so much they don't know about with the brain. I harp on giving it a lot of time because people get anxious and scared when they aren't recovering on a timeline and this only makes it worse for them because of the increased fear. If someone sinks the information into their head and they are using their body and working on their fears it's inevitable to me their brain will calm down to a point where it would be impossible for it to produce symptoms.

 

[louaci]

People who get Sarno book cure may score that one more easily but may struggle at other aspects in life. It is not better than because we are our own judges and we also don't need to be judges even with comparisons.

Each one's experience is unique and valid. I guess the reasons people don't get Sarno book cure could be many folds as many people already chime in. And yes the words may be harsh, but when we look internally, the question would be are we truly honest to ourselves? No matter what we do, whatever methods we use, it always comes back to this question.

 

[Diana-M]

are we truly honest to ourselves? No matter what we do, whatever methods we use, it always comes back to this question.

Yes! I agree. And that’s hard sometimes and takes a lot of work.

 

[feduccini]

By the way, there are techniques to accelerate the neuroplasticity. Ketamine infusion is one of those. It's pretty expensive though and needs a very good therapist to bring the patient's mind to the right place during the infusion. And we don't have data about long term effects yet.

 

[BloodMoon]

But it's a slow process and I wonder if there's something else I could do in order to my limbic system start realizing there's no danger involved. Thoughts anyone?

Ages ago I tried talking to my brain (à la Sarno) to little or no avail. However, recently I decided to talk to my brain in response to symptoms and tell it that it's being "ridiculous" (I'm a Brit so I actually say to it "don't be bloody ridiculous!" or "you're being bloody stupid!")... and it's working a treat. It was worth my experimenting, trying out different intonations and things to say to it, and eventually finding exactly what my brain will actually respond to.

 

[louaci]

By the way, there are techniques to accelerate the neuroplasticity. Ketamine infusion is one of those. It's pretty expensive though and needs a very good therapist to bring the patient's mind to the right place during the infusion. And we don't have data about long term effects yet.

In my opinion, that is too much deviation from Dr. Sarno.

 

[Cactusflower]

De-identifying with symptoms is a HUGE key.
Dr. Sarno reminds us that TMS is harmless.. even if medical Doctors give it a name, a diagnoses, a label.
If you are still attributing your injury, your disc, your knee, your ankle etc to a “injury” and it’s past the healing time into chronic and you are still stuck in medical land, then no matter how much you try, you “ignore” ( which you obviously aren’t really doing) etc then your symptoms will remain.
Sarno teaches us a foot in both camps doesn’t work.

 

[BloodMoon]

De-identifying with symptoms is a HUGE key.
Dr. Sarno reminds us that TMS is harmless.. even if medical Doctors give it a name, a diagnoses, a label.
If you are still attributing your injury, your disc, your knee, your ankle etc to a “injury” and it’s past the healing time into chronic and you are still stuck in medical land, then no matter how much you try, you “ignore” ( which you obviously aren’t really doing) etc then your symptoms will remain.
Sarno teaches us a foot in both camps doesn’t work.

This truly is key!

I found that even when I had stopped Dr Googling my symptoms and had got off the medical treadmill and finally truly believed that the brain can cause a myriad of different symptoms etc (and I certainly had whole myriad) my brain would still very sneakily lead me towards thinking physical/structural thoughts kind of 'automatically' about a particular individual symptom.

Interestingly, that was always with one of the earliest onset and most profoundly extreme and debilitating symptoms from the past that had gradually become much milder; evidently, it being of a structural/physical cause was still 'ingrained' and/or my brain reckoned that I'd still 'buy it'.

I didn't notice this phenomenon happening for a long time, but once I finally realised what was going on, I've been able to stop such thoughts in their tracks.

 

[Mr Hip Guy]

I found that even when I had stopped Dr Googling my symptoms and had got off the medical treadmill and finally truly believed that the brain can cause a myriad of different symptoms etc (and I certainly had whole myriad) my brain would still very sneakily lead me towards thinking physical/structural thoughts kind of 'automatically' about a particular individual symptom.

Interestingly, that was always with one of the earliest onset and most profoundly extreme and debilitating symptoms from the past that had gradually become much milder; evidently, it being of a structural/physical cause was still 'ingrained' and/or my brain reckoned that I'd still 'buy it'.

I didn't notice this phenomenon happening for a long time, but once I finally realised what was going on, I've been able to stop such thoughts in their tracks.

I've found that achieving this kind of mindset is more key to my recovery than any kind of "tapping into inner rage" or "feeling my emotions" ever has been. Convincing my brain through and through (the conscious brain and the thick-skinned inner subconscious brain) that I know for a fact this is TMS at work is usually the magic spell that causes the pain to finally go "poof."

 

[feduccini]

Ages ago I tried talking to my brain (à la Sarno) to little or no avail. However, recently I decided to talk to my brain in response to symptoms and tell it that it's being "ridiculous" (I'm a Brit so I actually say to it "don't be bloody ridiculous!" or "you're being bloody stupid!")... and it's working a treat. It was worth my experimenting, trying out different intonations and things to say to it, and eventually finding exactly what my brain will actually respond to.

Thanks! I'll try that

 

[Cactusflower]

I've found that achieving this kind of mindset is more key to my recovery than any kind of "tapping into inner rage" or "feeling my emotions" ever has been. Convincing my brain through and through (the conscious brain and the thick-skinned inner subconscious brain) that I know for a fact this is TMS at work is usually the magic spell that causes the pain to finally go "poof."

Focusing on your inner rage and emotions actually re-focuses you away from thinking physically… so…