How far we have gotten from Sarno

If I may, I would like to add my 2 cents to this discussion. In my almost 9 years on this forum, I observed three methods that seem to work for people, in their pure form or in combination.

All three method are based on the same foundational premise that chronic pain is a psychosomatic condition generated by a traumatized brain. How they achieve the goal of restoring the brain to a normal state of mind is different, but it does not mean that they are not consistent with the main concept of brain plasticity that is both a cause of a problem and a solution to it.

Here they are:

1. Classic Sarno method based on Freud's theory (book or lecture + therapy as needed). Tried, tested, proven. Works for many, probably majority.
2. Just Do It. Start walking, running, lifting weights or whatever else your pain prevents you from doing, and force your brain to give up and cooperate. Works for very few in it's pure form, but is employed by nearly everybody is some form, because we all have to decide how to stop limiting ourselves in movement.
3. Neuroscientific method. Practiced by Schubiner, Moseley, Gordon etc. Uses a more neuroscientific explanations of the chronic pain mechanism but employs therapy, meditation, tapping, pain reprocessing and various other ways of calming down and healing the brain that have not been used by Sarno.

Important to note that when Sarno developed his method, neuroscience did not exist, so he used a more simplistic language to explain why his method would work. His students like Schubiner and Schecter sought constructs that would be consistent with the scientific knowledge that was acquired in 1970es-1990es. It would be very interesting to find out what was Sarno's own reaction to the works of practitioners pursuing this path. I would not be surprised if he was fully receptive to it. After all, he was a scientist, through and through, and based his work on observation and proof. Science is not a set knowledge, it stands on the shoulders of previous scientists.

In my very humble opinion, it does not matter how people get rid of their debilitating symptoms, as long as they accept the foundational premise. Even more so, I encourage every person to chart their own path, because what works for some may not work for others. I used a mix of all three methods, but it was the neuroscientific explanation that helped me build up my confidence after Sarno showed me the path.

I think we need to encourage all success stories, all non-orthodox techniques people used, because this is how science is being made. I feel very proud of this community because without us agreeing to experiment on our own brains, without us raising funds, without us providing our success stories and sharing our experiences, our TMS doctors could have never produced their now famous Boulder clinical study and all of their statistics that proves them right.

None of the later developments can diminish the value of Dr. Sarno's genius to develop the method that went against the orthodoxy, of Dr. Sarno's courage to defy the pushback from establishment, of Dr. Sarno's persistence to not give up. May his name never be forgotten.

 

There will always be arguing because there”s no exact formula for getting better. There is no way to prove which way works better than another. People are always doing multiple things and judging recovery on a timeline is impossible because factors like age(young brains under 25 change easier), how long someone has had symptoms (neural pathways get stronger through myelination), severity of symptoms(sarno himself stated multiple symptoms like fibro are more severe states of tms) and others affect someones recovery. Ive seen many people state their way is the best because of their recovery time then i find out they had symptoms for only a few months to a year. Someone who has had symptoms for decades and is now severe with many crippling symptoms isnt changing neural pathways in weeks. Which is my other point - people say everyones the same and dont make it like youre worse than someone else but its not correct. Some people are worse than other people. I think if you”re looking for the key ingredient to getting better it is persistence. And its good to make your own way in the end. You will trust your decisions with everything else in your life.

 

I'll just say I'm sorry and leave it there.

 

Thanks for this really important discussion. I appreciate everyone’s comments. I also regret deleting my responses—not because I regret what I said—but because I let the hostility make me feel vulnerable and sorry for sharing my thoughts here on the forum, at all.

So, I took a little time to think about it. And I’ve decided I’m going to keep sharing. Somatic tracking and meditation IS helping me. Why wouldn’t I want to share that? Unless I’m told otherwise, I never understood this forum to be intended to discuss Sarno exclusively. Please let me know if I have this wrong.

I also think a lot of people don’t really understand what somatic tracking is. I might start another thread on it. It’s not about focusing on your pain. It’s actually a tool to help you detach from your pain. But I do think it’s not easily understood unless you’re a person who needs it and has legitimately tried it.

This forum has been SUCH a lifesaver for me. It’s impossible to even say how important each and every post has been for me. Thanks to all of you—sending out love to all. ❤️

 

For the sake of continuity on this thread, here’s what I deleted. Luckily, I happened to draft it off-line before I posted it.

Since there’s no definitive method of healing from TMS, all we can do is use the information from each of our journeys to piece together a story of how recovery is possible.

I agree that ignoring symptoms can help. I did that many times in the past and my TMS subsided.

I had one Sarno book cure in 2017. I read Sarno, did the journaling and the studying he recommended— and my symptoms went away within a couple months. (I also was laid off of a very stressful job. So I’m not sure if it was leaving the job or doing the Sarno method, or both, that did the trick. I think it was both.)

My most recent TMS is by far my worst. I started with 17 symptoms. I verifiably have a disregulated nervous system to go with it. When these symptoms came on, I went immediately to Sarno. I vigorously did his methods again, to no avail. I then went to psychotherapy as he advised. I spent 3 years in that, but I didn’t get rid of my TMS.

Personally, in my heart, I believe everything I’m doing, or have done, is going to make me better at some point. I’m already better on the inside, psychologically and emotionally. At least half of my symptoms are gone now. The ones left are pretty stubborn. On bad days, I can most consistently get relief from meditation and somatic tracking. Somatic tracking takes away my fear of the symptoms because I’m just looking at them objectively, like a scientist. For some reason, this really helps me. Regular frequent meditation calms my nervous system on a deep level, and my body lets go of some of its tension.

I’m using about 8 to 10 methods to go after my TMS this time. Sarno is certainly part of it. And I don’t think I would get better without what he teaches. But the other methods are also equally important to me. More than anything they give me hope. Others have shared their success with these methods, and it gives me a path to follow.

I think it’s unfair to imply that every single person can get better quickly from reading Sarno. This is just not true, and it makes people feel worse when it doesn’t work for them. You could argue that they need to dig deeper into their rage-filled subconscious. And that certainly wouldn’t hurt. But, I don’t think there’s an “aha moment” that heals everyone. I chased after that for a long time, and I think it was a waste of time. It also built up my frustration.

 

I couldn't read the entire thread yet but felt like replying this because it's something I usually think when I see this Sarno evangelism. He was a science guy and changed his approach several times. I can only think if he was somehow still alive, he would have kept this up and updated his own concepts, all in favor of science. It's been more than 20 years. He gave us brilliant input and it'd be a shame to leave it there as the perfected truth. Schecter, Moseley, Schubiner are all hard working inteligent people who understand pretty well Sarno's concepts and are taking the hellish work of making sense of the human brain.

 

Absolutely - his later books reflected this change.

I respect Baseball65's opinion and his posts have helped me several times, as they have helped others. He believes fervently in his method as it worked for him, so I get it.

But I see this a little like this: Imagine if all of the "book cures" from Sarno's days showed up to denounce the ones that Sarno had to take in for his multi-week seminar study method? If they showed up at the door and said "all you need is the book! what's wrong with you? why would you pay for this seminar when the book is cheap/free?"

We know why. Sarno himself knew that not everyone could recover just using one method and therefore needed extended study. And he amended his methods as a result too.

 

I wish I could use the blaze through method. I was for a while. Unfortunately I'm paying for it now.

 

Ok, I've read all the messages that survived the thread

Seems to me it was very much about the classic Freud/Jung clash on the unconscious.
The freudian side being Sarno's approach of identifying and expressing hidden emotions, with focus on the reservoir of rage. The jungian being incorporating the trauma through somatic tracking, meditation, parts work etc.

And the discussion about book healing. This one is such a mystery to me. Has anyone come up with a satisfying explanation about it?

Yeah, I agree. I imagine the majority of people here went for the Sarno approach, had some success, and then stalled in some way. Trying desperately to find this aha moment will only bring frustration, and if you don't go for an acceptance oriented technique, you're toasted. We're not somatic tracking because we enjoy the pain. We're doing it because it refuses to go away and we need to start seeing it with better lens. It's a sanity issue.

 

I know. He's great. I'm getting my Sarno's book out again.

Thanks man.

 

Sometimes human brains are wired in such a way that the brains become more unconsciously committed if a payment is made.
Also I have an analogy for this Sarno vs. other methods:

In China high schoolers need to take national college entrance exam. It used to be the most critical exam and the results determine the colleges one goes to and future employment opportunities. So this kind of like we need to jump through the hoops to reach a cure of chronic symptoms.

The Chinese department of education wrote detailed instructions and made previous years exams available for everybody to study without charge. Students and teachers will get a feel of what the exams would be like and prepare for them accordingly. They need to really learn the basic knowledge very well so they could adapt to different exam questions. So to me that is kind of like Dr. Sarno's books, he lays the foundation and the exams we need to pass to achieve cure. It is also up to us to do the emotional work ourselves, like the students need to learn all the maths, physics, chemistry etc.

For some students, who could grasp the concepts really well and with a very good knowledge base or intuitions, they would not need to much other study materials to succeed in the exams. However, for a lof of others, they need interpretations of the national guidance and previous national exams to understand and practice better, and the interpretations are not free. Kind of similar to the other TMS methods available these days and it helps in a way that the users need to constantly go back to Dr. Sarno for basics.

So students could succeed in whatever they or their mentors choose but nothing could replace the self work. One could have all the best materials available but if the hard work is not put in, no results are guaranteed. And even if the best results are not achieved yet, one already tries their best and could enjoy whatever improvements they could make.

It is a journey because we are humans.

 

Are you talking about going for the exposition work, carry-on-with-your-life style?
This one is pretty much about finding the goldilocks zone, right? Stepping out of comfort zone, but not too much that'd make the symptoms go haywire... I could use some advice with that.

Since I haven't been able to identify any new emotional scars, and can express all of them without barriers, my TMS work now is more oriented to exposition. The thing is, after about 2 hours of walking (or some time running) there's this moment where my back feels strange. There's always a fear sensation. Not structural fear, it's more about the anxious place my mind is stepping into. I talk to my mind, tell it it's okay to be fearful, but I'm in control of the situation (which is true, I always manage to go back home and rest). Bolts of lower back pain come in waves, and there's nothing I can do to lower this. Only lying for at least half an hour.

So my exposition training is getting close to this moment, without triggering the nasty pain, and then relaxing.

But it's a slow process and I wonder if there's something else I could do in order to my limbic system start realizing there's no danger involved. Thoughts anyone?

 

Yes. Continuing to exercise with no limits, really, was what I meant. That method didn't work for me, though.

 

I think you can “just get it,” and still not get better fast.

 

I think it depends on what is meant by "just get it". I don't think "getting it" intellectually results in recovery. "Getting it" has to occur on a deeper level. Perhaps it is a process of receiving the information consciously and it penetrating and aligning with the unconscious, thus impacting the autonomic nervous system and its generation of symptoms.

That's my theory of the quick "book cure" at the moment. But I think the connection between the conscious and unconscious is tenuous in the beginning and needs to be strengthened and solidified through ongoing "work" on an emotional, cognitive and behavioral level. Add spiritual level also. There has to be a shift in one's world view.

 

This. I knew 100% i had tms and i was recovering at my 4 year mark and it still took 2 more years to fully recover and my recovery rate didnt change. Please read or watch material on pain neuroscience to learn how slow it takes neurons to change. Think about putting on muscle - you will only put on a max of 5lbs of muscle in a year and 10 if you”re new to exercising. It doesnt matter if you consume 1000g of protein a day and exercise to failure with perfect recovery. You will only gain 5 lbs of muscle in a YEAR.

 

Sorry but I don't fully agree with that idea John. I had CRPS for about 5 years and had a spinal cord stimulator that never worked as well as later on thoracic outlet for two plus and got better from both rather quickly once I deidentified with them and stopped paying attention to them. I had always gone with the just get on with it and not really done much else. I had done the same for some horrid knee pain. I don't want people to be set up that this has to take years even if it can. Each timeline is individual and I do believe things can change quickly. It's also okay if you are slower on the process, there's no right or wrong to this

 

Sometimes ...for me...it works fast, other times it takes time. So...I don't really know why, how etc. That's the way it is.

 

Yes, and the ones that just get it and cure fast may have a harder time explaining it to the ones who seem to get it but not quite produce the same results. We can't transplant brains. Another analogy here, the same coach trains a whole team of players, after one demo usually one or two of the players get it and put it in practice without too much explanation, and there would be a bigger portion working on it but just not quite there yet. As long as each player keeps working on it following the right principles, each player would improve in their own pace.