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Help Needed

Discussion in 'Support Subforum' started by NIClubber, Dec 23, 2014.

  1. NIClubber

    NIClubber Peer Supporter

    I am definitely thinking psychologically, but can't seem to beat this excruciating back and hip pain. It's driving me insane.

    I discovered TMS by accident in mid February, and started journaling at the beginning of March. I had a minor success at the start of September. One Wednesday evening I was on the phone to my brother talking about soccer, his two young children and when we would be seeing each other next. I thought nothing more of the call and went to bed a couple of hours later.

    When I woke up the next morning, the pain had spread to the top of the back of my thighs and I was crying in pain just trying to tie my shoe laces. I eventually figured out on the Friday afternoon that it was caused by TMS and was actually because I have been insanely jealous of my brother as he's a straight A student and has had three or four long-term relationships (while I've had none, and have struggled to get B and C grades). Within five hours of speaking to a senior manager of my office about this for about five minutes, the pain in the back of my thighs disappeared within five hours.

    I have now read about a guy called Monte Hueftle, and wondered if anyone else had completed his programme??
    North Star likes this.
  2. Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)

    Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021) Beloved Grand Eagle

    NIClubber, I haven't looked into Hueftle but have heard his program is good.
    But I think you are solving your pain problems yourself. You apparently have had years
    of repressed anger being jealous of your brother. He may be bright and get good grades
    but he's been in three or four long-term relationships and none of them has worked out,
    why be jealous of him?

    Talking to your office co-worker relieved your pain, so you can talk to others about it
    or just to yourself. You can journal about it or talk into a voice machine.

    Think better of yourself and don't be jealous of anyone. For all you know, your brother
    may not be as happy or content as you think.

    You may be able to find reviews of Monte Hueftle at amazon.com books.

    Have a happy holiday.
    donavanf likes this.
  3. donavanf

    donavanf Well known member

    I really understand this, NIClubber, the jealousy issue is big with me too. I get very jealous of my sister at times (she leads a very privileged life and has had a lot of financial support that I have not in recent years, as well as having a rich family life), but then I remember the quote of Hugh MacLeod, "Don't Compare Your Insides to Somebody Else's Outsides". In other words, as Walt said, your brother may not be as happy as you think. I have recently realized that while my sister has a lot of good fortune in her life, she also struggles with a lot of emotional issues and TMS (Fibromyalgia, Anxiety Attacks and Neck Pain) so she and I share a lot of similar challenges and struggles. As I have learned to see that we both have more similarities than differences, I have become (a bit) less jealous, or at least I am quicker to realize when I am feeling jealous and I allow the feeling, rather than let it get into my body and erupt as symptoms. I still get triggered by her, but I am happy to report that today, I spent Christmas with her and my usual holiday TMS flare up (last year was rough) was a lot better than usual. I just tried to enjoy my time with her, realized that she is human, I am human, and that we love each other despite our differences and everything needn't hold so much emotional "charge". Much luck to you, in your ongoing and evolving relationship with your family, and with your TMS recovery. You are on to your own mind's tricks, and that is the first step!
    North Star likes this.
  4. Andy Bayliss

    Andy Bayliss TMS Coach & Beloved Grand Eagle

    I have engaged with Monte Huffle's program, and find parts of it very good.

    Part of his key, as discussed in this thread and video is emphasizing the now, now the total of our history and personality acts on us in-the-moment. http://tmswiki.org/forum/threads/tms-is-not-about-deeply-repressed-emotions.1624/
    This thread is a discussion about the validity of Huffle's approach, so I encourage you to see the comments too.

    For this, I agree that the action of tension, pressure, repression, super ego, and needy child are all happening in the moment, and most would probably agree.

    He goes on to urge TMS sufferers to "have a more open approach moment-to-moment." Monte asks us to respond to life and feelings differently that we typically do. This directive to change, rather than simply observe our patterns may diverge from what helps me. My background in doing inner work is more about the "pardoxical theory of change," which is a more gentle approach, and helps me unravel the perfectionistic, pushing and self-rejecting parts of myself. On the other hand, if we see what we are doing to ourselves in a habitual TMSing, non-attuned way, I think we need to take some counter action. To me this is a very fine line between pushing ourselves in an old pattern way to change, vs taking right action. Very subtle.

    His program gives you practices that distract you (that require your concentration) and he keeps reminding you that the mind is the problem and you should "think clean." That is, he keeps urging you to associate physical symptoms with your mental outlook at all times. He drills this in many times, and this is obviously a key to success, ala Dr. Sarno.

    Another thing I like, part of his approach to work in the now, was a note to subcribers (I think posted in this forum too?) awhile back about really feeling our feelings. Or this was the way I read it. So I have added that as a specific practice to my TMS work: spend a few minutes a day with a timer to simply allow feelings in the body. I think it sends a message to the subconscious that my inner doors are open to feelings: "you don't have to repress."

    Search the forum here for more entries about him, or by him, and make up your own mind. This TMS stuff is about individuation at its heart! One way to see this is that any action you take to address your pain as TMS is sending the right messages to your mind-body, so keep applying anything that motivates you, appeals to you.
    donavanf likes this.
  5. Back-To-Golf

    Back-To-Golf Peer Supporter

    I am curious. If one is aware of the emotions that causes TMS, is that enough to get rid of the pain? Or do I need to 'get over' the emotion as well?

    For example in NIClubber case, now that he is aware that jealousy might be the cause, is that enough, or he needs to get over the jealousy as well?
  6. Andy Bayliss

    Andy Bayliss TMS Coach & Beloved Grand Eagle

    In my experience, Sarno did not say "get over your rage." He said understand and learn and contemplate that rage is so threatening to your sense of who you are, that it is repressed and pain arises to distract you from the rage (or other difficult emotions). In my experience, and reading Dr. Sarno, he does not suggest any of these emotions should be "got over." Just pull the curtain back and the distraction is not effective any more. "I know I have jealousy, so what?"

    My perfectionistic, super ego ideal driven selves can't understand that learning and awareness can undo the pain, without any of the difficult emotions getting "fixed" or "rooted out and eliminated." However, this is my understanding, and direct experience. Others here might disagree, who focus on relaxation and forgiveness and so on...with apparent good effects.

    If I try to eliminate and fix deep emotions, that is only going to create more inner tension.
    North Star, Ellen and donavanf like this.
  7. Back-To-Golf

    Back-To-Golf Peer Supporter

    Cool. I can live with that. "I feel resentment and anger sometimes in office over politicking pricks, so what?" :)
    Btw, someone share a quote (modified) with me once, "Don't suffer the fool, make the fool suffer!" :p

    North Star likes this.
  8. NIClubber

    NIClubber Peer Supporter

    I have been writing and talking about both deeply/historically repressed emotions from my childhood AND the emotions I've repressed since the pains started. Some of the 'stress symptoms' have started to ease - especially the RSI - but the back pain is still just as bad, if not worse.

    I have been concentrating more in the last few weeks about some of the more emotionally painful topics and it seems to be helping.

    I wonder if I am actually repressing one specific emotion or is it just that I need to generically talk about emotions. In saying that, I'm seriously starting to run out of emotions to talk about .....
    North Star likes this.
  9. North Star

    North Star Beloved Grand Eagle

    NIClubber - You're doing awesome. I know it doesn't feel like it right now but that victory you had with the increase in pain and subsequent decrease after talking is HUGE!

    I really like what you said, Andy about trying to eliminate those deeper issues only creates more conflict. We recently moved to AZ where 3 of my siblings live. It's the first time we've lived near each other for many many years. Talk about an opportunity to recognize some of the conflict. Like Donovan, I've struggled with the apparently "easy" life my sisters have had.

    I am learning that it is okay. I can recognize those feelings and still accept myself. And my family members. And regarding those feelings, like it's been said…you don't need to excavate every emotion or traumatic experiences. It ain't gonna happen! For me this translates to simply being honest with myself. Eg, when my sis says something ignorant and hurtful and I say it doesn't bother me…a backache will speak up for me. Instead, I am learning to journal or talk to a safe person, discharge the frustration and move on.

    I have had years of being a good girl though and each time I respond in this new, more healthful way, I celebrate a victory.

    Oh…and one more thing! Are you engaging in things that nourish your soul, make you laugh or just plain ole FUN? I think that is huge too. :)
    nowtimecoach, Ellen and donavanf like this.
  10. Andy Bayliss

    Andy Bayliss TMS Coach & Beloved Grand Eagle

    You are doing the correct basic approach. You are thinking psychologically rather than physically.

    Your journaling and inquiry into emotional stuff over many months shows powerful steadfastness. You may just need to broaden the approach. I think you are covering the emotional part pretty well. I personally don't find I need to find a particular emotion that causes the pain. It is just the process of contemplating, like you're doing that has most of the positive effect, probably.

    Besides the journaling are you doing other Sarno type activities? I recommend a broad spectrum approach. Use the 12 daily reminders, read some Sarno daily, consider starting the Wiki study program. The education cure needs to go deep, and it needs time, and each person finds the right keys...


    You have challenged TMS at its core. Your mind-body has had a sort of awakening/awareness.

    This part is huge, and one technique is just to read what you wrote here once a day, and feel this certainty in your body. Recall the understanding and relief, and ask your mind-body to "stop the pain, I'm willing to feel my feelings!"

    Good luck and try to remove doubt about the pain being based in anything except your psychology, in any way possible...
    nowtimecoach, North Star and Ellen like this.
  11. nowtimecoach

    nowtimecoach Well known member

    What a beautiful gift to give oneself... full allowance and acceptance of the feelings that exist in the moment! Thanks for the tip Andy B!
  12. NIClubber

    NIClubber Peer Supporter

    I have just joined a local gym and have started to go to the gym and swimming. It'll probably end up being two or three times a week.

    I have a few people I can talk to, and maybe I'm one of the people who has to talk about emotions, rather than just write about them.

    I believe also that my mum, one of my aunts and my mum's cousin PROBABLY also have TMS, as well as my cousin's wife (who is heavily pregnant). The guy who sits next to me in work also has TMS, but is just back from six months off on sick leave, and seems to have had no TMS related treatment, even though I told him about the condition just before he went off. I am starting to analyse them, but still can't figure out what emotion(s) I am repressing.

    I think it all links back to my relationship (or lack of) with my mum, hence why the pains have increased over the last six to eight weeks ..... my dad died nearly six weeks ago after a short battle with multiple advanced cancers.

    I have been talking a lot about anger, and my RSI seems to have reduced significantly.

    My mind is still going to really dark places as the back pain is not reducing, even though I am talking about my emotions more than ever.

    Every so often my mind will think of what else could be the root cause of the pain, but I always end up at TMS/MBS/PPD.
  13. Andy Bayliss

    Andy Bayliss TMS Coach & Beloved Grand Eagle

    You are doing the inquiry to convince yourself, at deeper and deeper levels that you have TMS, not structural problems. And you are finding ways that work for you: talking about your past. You are doing the basic work. Keep it up.

    The passing of your father is huge. I am sorry for you and your family. This goes very deep in us, that loss. At a deep level losing a father is perceived as a very deep loss of support. I know because my father died.

    As I see your life from so far away, there is ample reason for TMS symptoms to distract you. My observation is that you may be getting caught up that you have to find the exact match between symptoms and feelings. In my experience this is not needed. You may be, in your pain, pressuring yourself too much for the "cure." Try to continue to do what works for you, find ways to lovingly distract yourself, and be patient if you can.
    North Star, Dahlia and Ellen like this.
  14. North Star

    North Star Beloved Grand Eagle

    NIClubber, I too, am sad for you at the passing of your dad.

    Be extra kind and gentle with yourself. Hugs - NS
  15. NIClubber

    NIClubber Peer Supporter

    I have continued to talk about my hatred of my mum. None of this has reduced my pain significantly.

    Is it possible that I would want my mum dead, as she has been such a negative influence on my life???
  16. Peggy

    Peggy Well known member

    Hi NIClubber, sorry to hear about your Dad. A parents death can be a blow for a long time.

    I think we are capable of thinking some pretty heavy dark thoughts, that's why we are here, the divided mind so to speak. I used to wish my Dad was dead often.

    My Dad was the negative influence in my family, as an alcoholic he emotionally abusive (especially to my Mom) when he drank (not so bad the rest of the time). I went to Al anon and ACOA (adult children of alcoholics meetings) for over 5 years and talked about that part of my life. One day (maybe 5 years after his passing) I started my group talk about how much I disliked my Dad and had wished he was dead so many times while I lived with him. I was feeling some guilt about these feelings. I had also started counselling/therapy around this time due to stress and was getting used to talking about my feelings, maybe that helped me get the courage to bring up the topic. There were about 5 maybe 6 of us in this round discussion group on this one day. To my surprise each person also had these feelings, I wasn't the only one. There was this one lady who had this thing that whenever she said something it happened. I call it heavy words (I made up that term), but some people have it. Anyway, this lady wished her Dad was dead as well, and about 2 weeks later he died. Wow, I thought, I don't have it that bad, I don't have to live with that particular guilt. But I was also relieved and happy that I wasn't alone. I felt less guilty, and that maybe my feelings were normal. Truth be known, Dad smoked and drank all his life, didn't let things out, and died of cancer, didn't have anything to do with me. I went to therapy, 12 step program and retreats for 5 years around that time. It was very helpful in processing Dad stuff. I think because of that time, I don't have nearly as much Dad stuff to process now.
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2015
  17. NIClubber

    NIClubber Peer Supporter

    My dad died of cancer on 9th December, after being a smoker for 30 years + and drinker for 40 years + ........... I think that's possibly part of the reason my pain has become more intense over the last 3-4 months.

    Bizarrely enough, I believe my mum MIGHT have TMS, as well.
  18. Jaxson

    Jaxson New Member

    Is it possible that I would want my mum dead, as she has been such a negative influence on my life???[/QUOTE]

    I would say....YES! I'd go there... Then ask how you feel about having that thought or feeling. Stephen Conenna's healing came when he stopped judging himself for feeling guilty or wrong about the rage he felt towards his father. He says..."the combination of uncovering, confronting and accepting suppressed emotions and the hidden "emotion about the emotions", leads to the relief of psychosomatic pain"...

    I'm not a TMS guru or anything...I'm on the path...but I thought I should share that with you because it could be a key for you...and it's something I try to also look at...it takes it a step further...
    Ellen and Peggy like this.
  19. NIClubber

    NIClubber Peer Supporter

    I have now had temporary success with talking about anger towards my mum for bullying me from a young age, but still no permanent relief from the TMS pain.
  20. Andy Bayliss

    Andy Bayliss TMS Coach & Beloved Grand Eagle

    Well this is very good news isnt' it?! You have a real guide for what is needed, untangling the personal TMS mystery in you.
    Andy B

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