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Discussion in 'General Discussion Subforum' started by Cheffo, Apr 7, 2023.

  1. Cheffo

    Cheffo New Member

    I am a long time follower of John Sarno, Steve Ozanich, etc. and a firm believer in TMS. I am looking to discuss this issue with people who have had this experience or who are knowledgeable about it. I don't have the right to tell people who can post or not, but that is my preference. Ill briefly tell the story and then talk about the TMS part.

    I took Levaquin not long ago. After a few days I started to get tendon damage symptoms. I didn't know what was going on. At first it was my Achilles tendon on the right foot, I thought I must have injured it going up some stairs but that seemed odd. It was red and swollen with tendonitis. While researching how to fix tendonitis I came across information that tendon problems (bad ones, and more) can be caused by the class of anti-biotics knows as flouroquinolones. I wondered if that was what I was taking, and it was. In the US those are usually Cipro and Levaquin, but there are others.

    Then I got the damage in my left foot. Then it spread to other places. Right now I can barely walk. My first symptoms were between and three and four weeks ago. If you go on line and look this up its' very scary, people in very bad shape. I am in rather bad shape right now. I was even having those "dark thought" if you know what I mean and they still come and go. Chronic pain, cant walk, its terrifying.

    The scariest part is that they don't know how long it will take to heal or if you will ever heal. So there is not much choice to go on the support groups, doctors have no cure. I am on a support group on Reddit, they are supposedly much more positive than the Facebook group so I stay there.

    This "floxing" as it is called - because you took a "flux" antibiotic - is very real and debilitating imo. Most people seem to mostly heal, but take a very long time. The quicker cases are in months, many (m0st) take years - it seems average is between one and two years. Some take up to four years and some just go on and on. Many, maybe most, dont ever quite get to 100 percent but seem OK with 70 to 90 percent.

    So I have been almost disabled overnight but I am in what they consider the acute stage. That would be describe as the first three or six months. After that most people improve, however slowly, but not all, and some only start to improve after a year even more. Symptoms vary with people but they are are mostly related to the tendons, but because this is the only antibiotic group that passes the blood brain barrier many have neurological symptoms as well and pscyological.


    OK so in my despair I have have been worried, obviously, about things. Primarily, will I be in a painful immobile state a long time and will I possibly have this forever.

    I was wondering about the long-haulers, the long-term people. Why are they not healing? Now there are a lot of factors here. Age, how many pills you took, prior health, etc. But still, could it be that some people - the people that have had it for five or ten years and still have not healed, could things have morphed into TMS at some point.

    And THEN I read a post from one of the members of this group. This person had it for two years, had most symptoms gone but one foot still hurt. He finally said the heck with it. He said I am just going to "go ham" on this foot, as he phrased it. and he went to the gym and stopped his foot onto the ground hard. The pain went away and he was gone for good.

    I though, my God, that is very close to Sarno right there. He told his brain that he is done with the pain and it listened.

    Now I think this condition is very real, I have it. Its a nightmare beyond anything ever in my life. Hell.

    Having said that, isn't that enough to cause enough anger to fuel TMS and to keep it going?
    TMS is so common, the cases that go on and on for years, can't we at least suspect TMS?
    Apparently there is SOME healing mechanisms going on somewhere, so if one basically never heals, doesn't that bring TMS into the picture as a possibility?

    Any hope would help. It's hard enough thinking I might be messed up for six months to two years or so. It's almost unbearable to think it won't ever heal. Perhaps the long haulers are part, mostly, or all TSM. I mean they are the minority to begin with, it would be nice to know that its even a smaller minority than that, and also perhaps some of those long haulers can avail themselves of TMS theory.

    Thank you
  2. miffybunny

    miffybunny Beloved Grand Eagle

    I wrote to Dr. Schubiner about this issue on behalf of my client and he confirmed that these "post- fluoroquinolone syndrome' and "post finasteride" syndromes are totally made up. He asserted that there is "absolutely no ongoing harm or disability to these medications, even if they took them for a long time." You already know this all tms, so don't fall into the trap of the fear mongering propaganda. Our beliefs are very powerful so choose wisely.
    Ellen and Cactusflower like this.
  3. Cheffo

    Cheffo New Member

    Yes, “the reign of pain is mainly in the brain”, Dr. Shubiner.

    I have chased TMS all over, I think this one would take a Wizard level TMS rating to beat. I don’t know about the acute phase of this, it does not look or feel like it. My tendon has physical damage I could see. I mean tearing a tendon, hmm. Lots of people have very specific and damaging symptoms with this, sometimes deadly, that’s usually not TMS. Because tendons are in eyes many get permanent eye damage, mostly floaters in visual field but permanently, also detached retinas. And heart damage.

    These types of symptoms seem way beyond TMS. And the people I read about seemed mostly good/great lives not going through divorces etc like Steve Ozanich says. My life was ok. And I did not know about the Achilles tendon thing until after, so it could not have been in my unconscious, or unlikely.

    These symptoms are so powerful and so specific. Look, these drugs are not like penicillin, that’s just bread mold. These are powerful synthetic drugs literally designed to kill. The companies literally acknowledge that, and the FDA also hence the black box warnings.

    Shubiner is smart and awesome and I am sure you are too, but I don’t think my brain is capable of this level deception. And it does not seem to match up with typical theory imo. I hurt in tendons I never heard of or knew I had.

    So at present, I still think I have been poisoned, if you will. It feels like I have been chemically injured, all due respect to you and the good doctor. It’s been bad, I have been thinking “those thought” if you know what I mean. Very tough time. I am almost disabled, like I said if it’s TMS it’s beyond me.

    Having said that, I do think TMS can keep the situation going, like I said. I certainly hope I’m wrong, and you are correct.
  4. miffybunny

    miffybunny Beloved Grand Eagle

    It's common for people to sustain a real injury or side effect from a drug, along with actual physiological changes, but what happens is the brain takes the baton and maintains the "chronicity". Very often people get medicalized , are given confusing and contradictory messages of danger from specialists or online message boards, or google, or well meaning friends, which just adds fuel to the fire. They find themselves in a morass of fear and "what if" questions, which serves to perpetuate the tms strategy. The more these signals and pathways get reinforced, the more they alter a person's physiology over time. Having painted that dire picture, however, the good news is that most if not all of this can be reversed. The body is a self repair organism and those drugs are long out of your system. It's quite possible that the only emotion at play here is plain old fear. I think your best bet is to make an appointment with Dr. Schubiner or Dr. Stracks so that they can dispel your fears and answer all of your questions. The solution is clarity imo.
    JanAtheCPA and Ellen like this.
  5. Cheffo

    Cheffo New Member

    Thank you. This is such a powerful message. Fear can take over. I think, as you said, the initial shock or injury may be "real", but then the healing mechanisms ought to take over.

    Perhaps TMS plays even a more prominent role, as Dr. Shubiner thinks - who I am to rule that out, TMS has been a mind blowing theory from the start. Such profound things it can do. It's good to hear that perspective as well. I will try to keep my mind open to TMS with floxing, whether on the level of generation of symptoms or maintaining them, I will keep those arrows in my quiver, Thanks again.
    miffybunny and JanAtheCPA like this.

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