Fear, placebo, nocebo, manifestation etc

[Soph1802]

Hi everyone

I've posted a bit recently so I'm sorry to monopolise but an interesting thing has come up for me and I'm wondering how others have understood and reconciled with it.

TMS talks a lot about the power of the placebo, nocebo etc and how the brain causes symptoms to communicate with us and distract us. I'm wondering how this crosses over with fear of specific symptoms that haven't happened yet.

I'm working on Dan Ratner's columns approach and looking at Doubt, and I've realised that one of my biggest doubts/fears is that the symptoms could progress to something worse. I have heart symptoms, and I'm specifically afraid of more severe arrythmias that could cause stroke etc. I'm afraid of not fearing my symptoms, and thus, beating doubt and fear, in case my symptoms progress to these scarier, more dangerous symptoms that could harm me, via the symptom imperative process. I'm not afraid of my current symptoms, but of the potential of what they could become. I'm also worried that all of this fearing these potential scarier symptoms will, via the placebo process, end up with me having those exact symptoms. I worry that because my fear is so intense, my body will know that progressing in the way that I fear it will is a good way to distract me and keep me in this place, so it will know to do it so that I don't beat it. Does this make sense?

The ways I've been challenging this so far include reminding myself that fear is different to belief, that fear is not certainty, and also that my body isn't working against me, so why would it do something that could hurt me unless there was a genuine problem? I.e. TMS could never evolve into something dangerous because it is there to help us, not hinder. Is this true? So if we did get something more sinister, it would be because something is genuinely wrong? My issue with this theory is that so many people have heart attacks etc due to stress, so I'm not sure I believe it.

I'm feeling very shaky about this, I don't feel settled on a position at all. And whilst I know it is just fear, I think I'm conflating it with some form of manifestation and it's holding me back.

Has anyone overcome a similar thing, had the same experience, or does anyone have any advice as to how to work through this?

 

[ARCUser831]

Hi Soph182, I have definitely been down that train of thought. I know how you feel. My symptoms are pelvic pain, urinary urgency, and persistent "discomfort" as it can only be described in my genital area... when I was first dealing with these symptoms I was deathly afraid of PGAD (don't look it up, it's awful). I had at times convinced myself that I was surely headed towards that progression. It never happened.

Another time, I was worried that I actually did have a UTI that was just hard to detect, and because I didn't catch it and treat it properly that I was developing a kidney infection. I was so afraid of it that when I actually started to get the key symptoms that indicate a kidney infection, I went to the doctor immediately. I left the doctor's office with a clean bill of health...again. Basically, I do think to an extent I had created the symptoms that mimicked kidney infection - severe flank and abdominal pain - but the key thing to call out here is that even though the symptoms were there, the infection wasn't. That is what TMS does -- as far as I've come to understand it. All of us here are symptomatic for physical issues we do not actually have...

Going to the doctor and getting that confirmation helped me get past my fear in that instance and the pain went away within a day or two. That was early on...before I even knew about TMS. I think the key to overcoming those fears now is realizing that with the understanding that our minds have great power to produce pain and fear, also comes the understanding that our minds are the answer to healing those things. The more fear you put towards the "What If's" -- which BELIEVE ME I get how hard that is, it is my hardest thing to overcome -- the harder it will be to heal. My mom, who is very similar to me, once told me that every time a "What If" enters my mind, respond with an "Even If" ... "even if the pain that I am worried about occurs, I know it is symptomatic, I know it is TMS, and I know I can heal" ... think of all of the fears you have had to date, how many have come true? For most of us, the answer is next to none. Use that awesome success record to give you confidence that what you fear today will not come to fruition tomorrow. Your fears and fixations are TMS at work. Good luck!

 

[TG957]

@Soph1802 , your post describes a generic fear of any pain that is typical for those who have suffered a long time. Dr Sarno described the symptoms that may occur and possibly be worse than your current symptoms as "extinction bursts". Extinction bursts happened to me many times, and scared me more than once as they in fact occurred more than once. What saved me from being thrown back into the cycle of pain-fear-pain-fear was warning from Dr. Sarno. Since I knew that extinction bursts were common, I was patient to stay the course and they all eventually went away. Fear is your worst enemy, but recognizing them and confronting them is the best and most courageous thing that you can do. Go for it and not let them set you back!

 

[JV63]

I'm going through something similar in terms of nocebo. For the first time in my life I have to take medication for a high blood pressure and after living 60 years and being blessed without any health issues, other than on and off anxiety, it has sent me into a downward spiral. I don't fear the diagnosis, I fear the medication and it's potential side affects. Right now I have tinnitus and what feels like Eustachian Tube Dysfunction but that's not even a side effect of the medication. So I have to ask myself why am I having this symptom. What do my ears don't want me to hear? That I'm mortal and as I age things can start to go wrong? That is what I'm trying to figure out.

Unfortunately when you feel it in your ears it's a constant reminder because it's always there. The odd thing is I've have had no other side effects that could be common with such medication but since I fear the ear thing the most TMS seems to have manifested there. One of the worse things I did was read about all the potential side effects. It's one thing to be educated but also not good to go down that rabbit hole. I was on some Facebook groups for Eustachian Tube Dysfunction but drop out of those after reading many posts here about not going down that rabbit hole either. There's rarely any positive stories in those types of groups.

Hope you find your answers soon