fear not regarding physical, just prognosis

eskimoeskimo

eskimoeskimo

Well known member
Wondering if this makes sense:

TMS treatment seems to be about combatting the fear that it's structural.

For me, the fear is that the pain is permanent, regardless of the cause. Maybe this is why I'm not having much success. I'm not afraid that I'm crumbling into disability. I'm afraid that I'll always be miserable because I'll always be in pain.
 
yep, the permanent aspect is distressing. especially when a medical specialists tells you it will never go away! this happened me in March 2014 and I had actually been doing OK having went to the Doctor in Jan 2014 and being put on Prozac. I had been running and doing exercise and had lost lots of weight and felt great. Then bam!

presented my bible of pain information to the specialist and he said give up and accept you will have pain forever, and I quote ''won't know real pain until you get a wife''

its outrageous and looking back had a massive impact on my state of mind. it is malpractice in my opinion but at the time I thought this is the kick up the ass I needed.
I was wrong , it set me back into the negativity and low mood state. I was right back at the bottom again, this time with the prognosis that I was doomed to a life of pain.

I had hoped for some answers from that session, a sliver of hope...but got nothing. I would write the guy a letter now to recommend Sarnos work but I bet he'd ignore it.

The arrogance and dismissiveness of it still annoys me
 
Yes, I totally get where you are coming from. I fear my pain will never go away as well and this gives me a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach. I think I also have the nagging sense that I have some awful autoimmune disease. I have been to many doctors and they can't find anything wrong with me, but I keep thinking they missed something. I can't go back to doctors anymore. It drained me emotionally. I think this whole pain thing has changed who I am as a person. :(
 
IrishSceptic said:
yep, the permanent aspect is distressing. especially when a medical specialists tells you it will never go away! this happened me in March 2014 and I had actually been doing OK having went to the Doctor in Jan 2014 and being put on Prozac. I had been running and doing exercise and had lost lots of weight and felt great. Then bam!

presented my bible of pain information to the specialist and he said give up and accept you will have pain forever, and I quote ''won't know real pain until you get a wife''

its outrageous and looking back had a massive impact on my state of mind. it is malpractice in my opinion but at the time I thought this is the kick up the ass I needed.
I was wrong , it set me back into the negativity and low mood state. I was right back at the bottom again, this time with the prognosis that I was doomed to a life of pain.

I had hoped for some answers from that session, a sliver of hope...but got nothing. I would write the guy a letter now to recommend Sarnos work but I bet he'd ignore it.

The arrogance and dismissiveness of it still annoys me
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Yep, these purveyors of nocebo are lining up to offer you all the doom and gloom once you get caught up in the chronic pain/condition cycle.

What I've come to realise is that when I was a kid growing up you see doctors etc as all powerful and with all the answers and this belief often holds with us as adults. You may keep this belief if you don't have any reason to frequent the medical establishment but once you become embroiled in chronic pain etc you swiftly begin to see that these 'experts' are often just regurgitating the memes and opinions that they have been taught to and these often have little bearing on the reality of your actual situation and condition.

Basically I think it is really an inside job. You have to learn to strengthen your mind and grow a strong inner belief and confidence in your ability to self sooth and heal yourself...it is so tempting and falsely reassuring to look outside of ourselves but I think that progress really begins when we start to refute/challenge the 'facts' we have received about our situation and realise that the resulting nocebo that is often planted is self limiting and often incredibly destructed.

I've mentioned this before but I always like the story of Sir Laurence Olivier who when told by his doctor that he had cancer told him "oh, I haven't got time for cancer dear boy' and promptly strolled off and lived for another 30 odd years. Obviously I'm not saying its sensible to ignore such medical advice but its a good example of how our attitude and approach to what 'experts' tell us translates into the reality of our experience and situation.
 
Yes, I understand also. I fear my pain will never go away also. Most days the pain is livable but the fear of it makes it much worse and also sends me into crying jags. Also tends to make me nauseous. I feel the same way as tgirl does about seeing doctors. It drains me plus I think in the back of my mind they are going to find something and fix it. Most days now I know the pain is 100% TMS but if I have a doctor's appointment that "hope" of fixing comes back. Trying to avoid doctors as much as I can now.
 
eskimoeskimo said:
Wondering if this makes sense:

TMS treatment seems to be about combatting the fear that it's structural.

For me, the fear is that the pain is permanent, regardless of the cause. Maybe this is why I'm not having much success. I'm not afraid that I'm crumbling into disability. I'm afraid that I'll always be miserable because I'll always be in pain.
Click to expand...
I never remember having any fear of my pain either. For me it was more this overall belief that reality is cruel, and being in chronic pain made sense with that view of life. To become pain free I've had to totally change the way I perceive life, and stop being at war with reality. That war created so much tension and stress. Still working on it.
 
IrishSceptic said:
yep, the permanent aspect is distressing. especially when a medical specialists tells you it will never go away! this happened me in March 2014 and I had actually been doing OK having went to the Doctor in Jan 2014 and being put on Prozac. I had been running and doing exercise and had lost lots of weight and felt great. Then bam!

presented my bible of pain information to the specialist and he said give up and accept you will have pain forever, and I quote ''won't know real pain until you get a wife''

its outrageous and looking back had a massive impact on my state of mind. it is malpractice in my opinion but at the time I thought this is the kick up the ass I needed.
I was wrong , it set me back into the negativity and low mood state. I was right back at the bottom again, this time with the prognosis that I was doomed to a life of pain.

I had hoped for some answers from that session, a sliver of hope...but got nothing. I would write the guy a letter now to recommend Sarnos work but I bet he'd ignore it.

The arrogance and dismissiveness of it still annoys me
Click to expand...
Did the Prozac help that much and are you still taking it?
 
Huckleberry said:
I always like the story of Sir Laurence Olivier who when told by his doctor that he had cancer told him "oh, I haven't got time for cancer dear boy' and promptly strolled off and lived for another 30 odd years.
Click to expand...
I see two sides of this story. The first is that Olivier had a tremendously positive attitude and the second is that he might not have trusted doctors. Regarding the first, how do we cultivate that positive attitude? I see people who have it and people who don't, and it seems like an invaluable part of TMS recovery.
 
eskimoeskimo said:
Wondering if this makes sense:

TMS treatment seems to be about combatting the fear that it's structural.

For me, the fear is that the pain is permanent, regardless of the cause. Maybe this is why I'm not having much success. I'm not afraid that I'm crumbling into disability. I'm afraid that I'll always be miserable because I'll always be in pain.
Click to expand...

This makes me think of some of the cases Dr. Sarno worked on, finding that the "root cause" was the fear of symptoms returning, after having success with the TMS approach. The distraction action of the pain was to distract from the experience of fear. Fear was not serving as a distraction, but rather was the feeling that was "trying to be avoided."

For you eskimoeskimo, you feel the fear, or you could call it a conviction, or doubt that you will ever be out of pain. It may help to contemplate the experience of the Inner Child in relationship to the fear itself. Or read those parts of Dr. Sarno's work to see what he said in treatment for this kind of case.

I think there was a case like this mentioned in Healing Back Pain, but I am not certain.

Andy B
 
Here are some good thoughts to drive away fear...

Oprah Winfrey: “The thing you fear most has no power. Your fear of it is what has the power.”

Jake Gyllenhaal: “Do you know what fear stands for? False Evidence Appearing Real.”

Mother Teresa: “Let nothing perturb you, nothing frighten you. All things pass. God does not change, Patience achieves everything.”

“Be happy in the moment, that’s enough. Each moment is all we need, not more… Yesterday is gone. Tomorrow has not yet come. We have only today. Let us begin.”

“Let nothing perturb you, nothing frighten you. All things pass. God does not change, Patience achieves everything.”

Queen Latifah: “You can’t let fear paralyze you. The worse that can happen is you fail, but guess what: You get up and try again. Feel that pain, get over it, get up, dust yourself off, and keep it moving.”
 
tgirl said:
Yes, I totally get where you are coming from. I fear my pain will never go away as well and this gives me a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach. I think I also have the nagging sense that I have some awful autoimmune disease. I have been to many doctors and they can't find anything wrong with me, but I keep thinking they missed something. I can't go back to doctors anymore. It drained me emotionally. I think this whole pain thing has changed who I am as a person. :(
Click to expand...

I commiserate. You've describe it well, though I'm sorry that this has been your experience. Having chronic pain is, in additional to painful, traumatic. I'm wondering if I need to do something about this sinking fear, or if it's even possible to adjust that perspective? I'm constantly confused on this point... if the idea of a life of pain makes me terrified, do I need to work more on outcome independence, or do I just keep on pushing forward with despite the fear, or what? Who wouldn't be terrified? Have you had this confusion as well?
 
Jacqui9 said:
Yes, I understand also. I fear my pain will never go away also. Most days the pain is livable but the fear of it makes it much worse and also sends me into crying jags.
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Yes, I feel the same way. The pain itself, for me, is rarely excruciating. But I can't handle the thought that it might be feel like that forever. The idea makes me just collapse. It's not even about the pain anymore, the experience is utterly disorienting. When people ask "how bad is the pain 0-10?" it's just the wrong question entirely. But, hell if I know the right question. Maybe "how much do you hate the feeling in your neck/back/etc?" >?
 
Ellen said:
I never remember having any fear of my pain either. For me it was more this overall belief that reality is cruel, and being in chronic pain made sense with that view of life. To become pain free I've had to totally change the way I perceive life, and stop being at war with reality. That war created so much tension and stress. Still working on it.
Click to expand...

This resonated strongly with me. I'm frustrated/scared/angry that the experience of chronic pain exists at all, for anyone. It makes the universe seem so bad. How did you counteract this view?
 
Andy B said:
This makes me think of some of the cases Dr. Sarno worked on, finding that the "root cause" was the fear of symptoms returning, after having success with the TMS approach. The distraction action of the pain was to distract from the experience of fear. Fear was not serving as a distraction, but rather was the feeling that was "trying to be avoided."

For you eskimoeskimo, you feel the fear, or you could call it a conviction, or doubt that you will ever be out of pain. It may help to contemplate the experience of the Inner Child in relationship to the fear itself. Or read those parts of Dr. Sarno's work to see what he said in treatment for this kind of case.

I think there was a case like this mentioned in Healing Back Pain, but I am not certain.

Andy B
Click to expand...

Thanks Andy, I'm going to search through HBP tonight to see what I can find on this topic. It seems like so much of TMS treatment is combatting the fear of structural damage... but there's so much more to combat.
 
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