Fasting & Emotional Healing

[Benjiro]

Hey All.

Wanted to briefly share on a healing modality that has benefited my mind and body quite a lot over the years: Fasting. Fasting, as it turns out, was routinely prescribed to treat a host of mental and physical illnesses in ancient times. Many people, including myself, still practice it for that same reason today, especially in Eastern cultures.

I’ve fasted rather extensively over the years (nine 3-day dry fasts) as well as intermittent fasting a routine basis. One of the first things people notice when undertaking a fast is the emotional impact. You experience anger. You experience irritation. You experience sadness—all in waves that can be quite intense at times. You think about unresolved emotional issues that had escaped your conscious intention. And in my case you routinely dream about the past in the days that followed.

Fasting is strong medicine, in my opinion, because it facilitates access to, and processing of, unresolved emotions. It should be undertaken with care and common sense, because there can be risk involved when we deprive ourselves of food and water, especially for a lengthy period of time.

I could say a lot more about this, but I’m making this initial post to get a conversation started and perhaps prompt people to think outside the box of 21st century cultures deeply rooted in consumerist values.

Has fasting ever been an item on your healing agenda?

 

[miffybunny]

Some people fast for spiritual reasons or for health reasons (autophagy) but I think it could be extremely problematic and stressful for many. I've read the science of fasting by Dr. Jason Fung and I did the 16/8 hour window for a year straight. Fasting can be very stressful both mentally and physically. I would not recommend it for the average person or someone struggling with TMS. Basically I would compare it to going on a meditation retreat and not talking for 10 days. Some people may love that but it would be my idea of hell lol! Also a lot of people with TMS are dealing with medications and other variables . To me it adds another layer of stress. If a person enjoys it and finds it beneficial than do it but if they think it's going to speed up the process of healing, it doesn't work that way. You can still heal without going to these extreme measures. My philosophy, is to make your life easier and less stressful. Food is a basic need....it's not like shopping or over spending. If someone has issues with food etc., fasting is just a set up for more distraction, anxiety and TMS. That's just my opinion but I think what you are describing would be unrealistic and too advanced for the average person in western culture who does not have certain spiritual beliefs and has work and family responsibilities.

 

[Benjiro]

I agree that no one healing modality is for everyone. And if someone has an eating disorder, that adds a new layer of complexity. Or if someone has very little fat on their body that would otherwise fuel the body in a fasted state. Maybe these types should avoid. But in my experience, fasting can absolutely promote emotional and physical healing. That is, in fact, what it tends to do. It makes sense since most of our ancestors had to go extended periods of time without consuming—or many of us wouldn’t be here.

The way I see it lifestyle is often a reason why people are sick to begin with. People have to make time for any therapy and fasting here is the rule. I like to remind myself while fasting or meditating or exercising or experiencing emotional discomfort of any kind that sometimes it gets worse before it gets better.

I wouldn’t say I enjoy fasting. It’s a discipline to me. Some months I’ll fast a lot, other times I’ll go months without fasting. And it does put stress on the body, especially multi-day fasts. But to me that stress is comparable to the stress of exercise or weightlifting. The idea is to break yourself down to build yourself up even stronger. And the benefits aren’t mechanical. Fasting while going 100 mph is very different than fasting in a relaxed conducive environment.

Intermittent fasting is just the tip of the iceberg. I don’t intermittent fasting to heal emotions—that’s more of a convenience thing. I have found fasts of longer duration (~1 day+) to be the most effective. Whenever I feel emotionally disconnected, fasting is one of my many recourses. It’s amazing what the human body can do when we get out of its way.

 

[miffybunny]

I think it's an advanced modality and not for the faint of heart. I also think you have to be in a good place mentally to do it...or at least you need to have some kind of foundation. Most people who are starting the TMS journey would not be ready for that I don't think. Of course everyone's journey is unique but most people who are in the beginning of the journey are already overwhelmed with pain and fear...so adding hunger to the equation is not a good mix. You have built up your discipline but 99 percent of average people can't last 2 hours without eating lol. 99.9 percent would not do extended fasts if you paid them. I'm just being realistic here. I think in Eastern culture, people build up habits for disciplines because it's built into the culture or belief system. Without the desire for that type of spiritual journey, you are left feeling "hangry " . I recovered from TMS without meditating or journaling....I just read what I needed to and did the boring work. I read some of the Eckart Tolle type stuff but it's not my cup of tea, I'm not on that type of spiritual journey and it's not even necessary to heal. Healing from TMS is a much more banal, less mystical process than people think but I do agree with you, you have to get out of your own way.

 

[Andy Bayliss]

My philosophy, is to make your life easier and less stressful. Food is a basic need....

Yes. I really get this. Why add any extra stress. I think for many battling with TMS, we already push on ourselves to "do well" etc. Fasting could be another way of pressuring oneself at the same time the basic biological needs are getting slightly stressed.

Fasting is strong medicine, in my opinion, because it facilitates access to, and processing of, unresolved emotions.

I never heard anyone put it this way, but I guess I would agree. In this there could be some good applications for emotional work. The way I experience fasting is that it greatly increases awareness. Clears my head. And with this there is usually emotional stuff coming up, "purification" if you will. Clarity and immediacy of experience seem to come with fasting. I've only done it for 1 to 3 days, but each time found the same results.

 

[Hedger]

I have before done intermittent fasting a month just for health benefits, like 16h fast 8h eating window every day. I´m now trying a longer water fast (0 cal).

I´m on 26h right now aiming for 36-48h. I would describe it as very helpful emotionally, and that the mechanism is this: addiction. Ever since hour 16 or so I find myself getting irritated, anxious or whatever, and I immediately start thinking about eating something as a distraction. Its not hunger. It´s distraction, like gambling or shopping or whatever. And I´m a fit, sporty person. Still I do this. And its very automatic. I don't want to feel this unease and my mind automatically wanders for the food solution. And I can't say I´m that particular hungry. Sure I´m hungry now and then, but not THAT hungry that I should have to think about food so much.

Fasting is strong medicine, in my opinion, because it facilitates access to, and processing of, unresolved emotions.

I agree! We use food as a distraction from our feelings way too much instead of just fuel and enjoyment.

 

[Younameit]

I think it's an advanced modality and not for the faint of heart. I also think you have to be in a good place mentally to do it...or at least you need to have some kind of foundation. Most people who are starting the TMS journey would not be ready for that I don't think. Of course everyone's journey is unique but most people who are in the beginning of the journey are already overwhelmed with pain and fear...so adding hunger to the equation is not a good mix. You have built up your discipline but 99 percent of average people can't last 2 hours without eating lol. 99.9 percent would not do extended fasts if you paid them. I'm just being realistic here. I think in Eastern culture, people build up habits for disciplines because it's built into the culture or belief system. Without the desire for that type of spiritual journey, you are left feeling "hangry " . I recovered from TMS without meditating or journaling....I just read what I needed to and did the boring work. I read some of the Eckart Tolle type stuff but it's not my cup of tea, I'm not on that type of spiritual journey and it's not even necessary to heal. Healing from TMS is a much more banal, less mystical process than people think but I do agree with you, you have to get out of your own way.

it's funny you say that because with me it was the opposite, fasting (particularly dry) is what healed 70% of my condition, 10 years with lyme (which I'm convinced it's just TMS as well) and since year 2 I lost my appettite, but of course I was resistant throughout all these years, until on year 8 I watched a video by dana ashlie where she talks about fasting and it resonated with me

then I went on the literature to read the books (herbert shelter, arnold ehret, jason fung among many other authors) and they all say that when animals are sick, they naturally fast to recover, not because they're consciously thinking that, but because there's no instinct, no visceral urge to eat, it was the same with me, so I agree that healthy people would never be able to go 12 days without food (I did 12 dry, yes it's advanced but doable, there's a blueprint for everything) because they don't need to, their bodies don't shutdown their hunger because they're fine, but in my case with more than 30 symptoms, physical, neurological etc, my body shutting down my hunger was a sign I should've payed attention to since the beginning, but again, I had to change my paradigm which was flawed, it's actually well known that our mithocondria obtain only 30% of its energy from food

 

[Sita]

Hey All.
Has fasting ever been an item on your healing agenda?

Hi,

I agree with all you wrote.

I used fasting in the past because it's healthy to do it. I know that animals fast when they are sick and they recover faster. I also do it myself when I'm sick and yes, I do recover much faster. I don't eat anything when I travel by plane for instance. I fast and only drink water. Usually I eat before the trip and then when I reach my destination...and since I travel to Europe (from the US) I do not eat for more than 14-15 hours. Nothing. The jet lag is minimal. But if I eat the jet lag is terrible. When I have a cold - again - I don't eat and I recover faster.

This idea that the majority of people would not resist without food for 2 hours is inaccurate. It's not like that. Maybe for some people living in a first world country. But not for the rest of the globe. I'm serious here. Imagine someone in India or Poland or...thinking of food every 2 hours. It's not at all like that. No way.

I used to fast every Friday. This some years ago. I did it for 9 months or so. And I would fast for 2-3 days in a row once a month. Every month. It's very healthy for the body, it helps clean the cells. I can do it but I don't do it anymore because I'm anemic and it's not recommended in my case. But...I like to fast for 1/2 day. This, I can do. I also eat in a shorter period of time, 6-8 hours/day. I've always done it. As a child, teen, young adult, adult etc. Always. It's very normal for a person living in a second or third world society to eat like this. I was born and raised in Easter Europe/a former communist country. No one in my country would eat when they are not hungry. OK? Why would they eat, just because? This was in my time, now it's getting distorted there as well a little bit gradually. They eat to stuff their emotions, out of boredom or for other reasons. Sad. In the US and a few other more advanced societies this abnormal relationship with food appears to be very unhealthy and it's been here for decades. I noticed this when I moved here, more than 20 years ago. Diet books everywhere, desperation with staying young and thin, crazy articles in teen magazines or women magazines/books about this subject, working out to stay thin, advertisements for different crazy tools, very intense in my view. I found it very weird, no offence. I'm honest here. I used to live in Germany, UK and near France at the border with Switzerland. They are not obsessed with food, no.

I don't want to get fat, of course I don't. But it's normal to gain some weight in time while advancing in age. You just have to pay attention to your diet and move a little more to keep your weight down. Simple and natural.

I'm into yoga, I've practice meditation for more than 30 years and first I read about fasting in spiritual books. My brother fasts (only water) every Friday. He's vegetarian and he's been fasting on Fridays for more than 30 years. He's not into spirituality at all but he likes fasting and does it for health reasons. I admire him for it. My husband fasts for days as well. Again, he does it for health reasons.

 

[miffybunny]

This is an old post but my opinion about these modalities as being methods of coping (carnivore diet, gut healing protocols, detoxing, cold water plunges etc etc etc) has not changed. If anything, I've seen just how ineffective they are long term and how much bypassing occurs. They are often performative and coming from the place of the ego, and therefore just another defense masquerading as spiritual enlightenment. You can dress it up however you like but it's more intellectualizing, more pathologizing and focusing on the body, more doing, more fixing, more resistance. If a person enjoys these things and would be doing them regardless, have fun with that, but it's all antithetical to Sarno's message. You're still on the hustle to engineer and micro manage. True healing is to forget about healing.

 

[Sita]

Hippocrates must have been a moron then.

 

[miffybunny]

Hippocrates must have been a moron then.

Hippocrates wasn’t trying to get rid of tms symptoms.

 

[Sita]

I don't think the original poster was talking about tms. Just fasting in general for mental health or other issues. Maybe I misunderstood.

 

[miffybunny]

Regardless, it's problematic and paradoxical because the person is trying to "heal" from the place of the ego, which just becomes yet another defense...more suppression, more externalizing, and more resistance. If one is using fasting as a strategy to heal or fix or integrate trauma (tms symptoms or any other form of anxiety), they are actually reverting to the same consciousness that created their issues to begin with. Imo, based on what I've observed (especially in those who are reading in a tms forum) these kinds of strategies or protocols interfere with (rather than promote) letting go and surrender.

 

[Sita]

I understand what you are trying to say but there are cases, where the person is mentally ill for instance, and cannot function properly in society. A keto diet for instance can make him functional.

I know a woman like that. It's not that she could not let go to remain mentally ill for the rest of her life...she did let go. But then she wanted to fight with her last resources and get well and had the willpower to do it by changing her diet. It was a miracle for her...finding the information that a ketogenic diet has been used for more than 100 years in medicine to treat epilepsy. And she tried the diet for her mental illness to see if it works for her as well. And it did!

So no, not in all the cases what you said is valid. Some forms of anxiety can also be treated with a strict ketogenic diet. The last studies have shown this as a fact. Maybe you are not aware of this, and it's fine. My point is that there are circumstances when medicine can help, diet can help, other factors/life changes can help.

 

[miffybunny]

It's not the diet or fasting that is the issue. it's the mentality and intent behind it. A hammer can be used to build a shelf and it can be used to bludgeon someone for ex. My son has epilepsy so I'm not saying that food can't be medicine etc etc. My concern is that for 99.9999 percent of the people who are reading on the TMS Wiki, it's a whole other ballgame. We know the personality profile of the TMSer, and all of these "tools" have done more harm than good. They overcomplicate and convolute Sarno's message. They cloud the picture and take the sufferer back to the physical once again. If this were an epilepsy forum or a schizophrenia forum, I would have a neutral opinion but since it's the wiki, I'd rather spare people of rabbit holes.

 

[Younameit]

Regardless, it's problematic and paradoxical because the person is trying to "heal" from the place of the ego, which just becomes yet another defense...more suppression, more externalizing, and more resistance. If one is using fasting as a strategy to heal or fix or integrate trauma (tms symptoms or any other form of anxiety), they are actually reverting to the same consciousness that created their issues to begin with. Imo, based on what I've observed (especially in those who are reading in a tms forum) these kinds of strategies or protocols interfere with (rather than promote) letting go and surrender.

I get what you're trying to convey here, but you're completely mistaken, dry fasting was what healed my after 10 years of intense chronic symptoms, resistance and ego is to seek for cures outside ourselves when we know that everything we need is within, ego was me eating when I didn't feel hungry (my appetite shut down on the 2nd year of symptoms) and dry fasting releases stored emotions, trauma, tension, negative feelings etc, it's an ancient millennial practice, there are great resources out there, august dunning's book, michel deladoey and of course Filonov's two books. I also recommend the channel/website dry fasting club and the youtube channel fasting with trevor, he also had hardcore chronic illness for many years and he healed with dry fasting (both trevor and the dry fasting club guy), dude got so addicted that last year he was doing a 20 day dry fast every 2~3 months, can you believe that? Now think about that, if it was something dangerous he wouldn't do that every 60 days, I'll do my maintenance fast of 10~11 days every year now as an act of gratitude. There are many ways to skin a cat, I've done many dry fasts to get to this level, it's a gradual step climbing of course, I started with water fast and transitioned to dry fast, so I had a learning or adaptation curve, but it was definitely worth it.
Fasting is surrender, all the stuff that got stuck in your nervous system will come to the surface and you'll feel everything in its most pure, subtle way, you're healing at the most deep level when you're fasting, it's actually a form of ego death, for me, even doing IF in 2017~2018 was difficult (I thought IF would be enough...) because before my illness I was a gym rat, and an ectomorph so skipping a meal would kill me, I thought I was catabolizing, but my body was sending a clear message, me continuing to eating was the resistance, I thought my blood sugar would drop and I would faint, nothing could be further from the truth lol, humans before agriculture didn't eat every 2 hours, we didn't have fridge and we had to hunt our prey, so we would fast for many days, fasting is actually natural and very healthy, the whole fasting literature stresses how animals fast (dry!) when they get sick or ill, nature has been showing us the way forever but we've been brainwashed into thinking we need something outside of ourselves. Fasting (particularly dry) follows all the fundamentals of a Mindbody treatment and healing, when we reach a fasted state and go many days without eating/drinking we tap into our inner healer, the body starts multiple process of cleansing, detox, neurogenesis, neuroplasticity, autophagy, repair, RESET, this is the best way, we reset our bodies to to the cellular quantum level, and it's a beautiful thing, for me it was DRY FASTING first, then the rest (somatic tracking/somatic experience, bioenergetics, TRE, meditation, raw journaling, breathwork, brain rewiring etc etc, all those things work and are wonderful, but nothing trumps dry fasting, the miraculous way)

 

[Younameit]

I understand what you are trying to say but there are cases, where the person is mentally ill for instance, and cannot function properly in society. A keto diet for instance can make him functional.

I know a woman like that. It's not that she could not let go to remain mentally ill for the rest of her life...she did let go. But then she wanted to fight with her last resources and get well and had the willpower to do it by changing her diet. It was a miracle for her...finding the information that a ketogenic diet has been used for more than 100 years in medicine to treat epilepsy. And she tried the diet for her mental illness to see if it works for her as well. And it did!

So no, not in all the cases what you said is valid. Some forms of anxiety can also be treated with a strict ketogenic diet. The last studies have shown this as a fact. Maybe you are not aware of this, and it's fine. My point is that there are circumstances when medicine can help, diet can help, other factors/life changes can help.

Yes, in his book august dunning presents a list of diseases that dry fasting can treat and heal, and it has a 95% success rate which is mind blowing. Many of those are chronic conditions like thyroid dysfunction, mental disorders like anxiety depression, chronic pain. Jordan peterson and his daughter had food sensitivity and they solved that by doing a keto diet as well (carnivore) although it's probably TMS too in their case, they just need to work on it.
and what does a keto diet do to our bodies? It puts us in ketosis meaning the body switched from carbs to ketone bodies (aka fat as fuel) and that has wonderful health benefits, any mental fog is immediately lifted, we feel a sense of presence, well being, more grounded, many of the carnivore doctors say that carbs are actually dangerous and cause most metabolic diseases nowadays, and I tend to agree with them, I reduced the amount of carbs that I eat and I only eat low GI carbs, no sugar or processed crap anymore.
when a person starts a keto diet it takes about 2 weeks to enter into ketosis, with a water fast it takes 3 days and with dry fasting is in less than 36 hours, so imagine being in ketosis on steroids, that's why dry fasting works so well (one of the dozens and dozens of benefits, not just ketosis!)

 

[Sita]

Yes @ Younameit. Good for you!

I also follow a very low carb diet. I've been in ketosis continuously for the last ... I forgot...6 years or so.

 

[miffybunny]

I get what you're trying to convey here, but you're completely mistaken, dry fasting was what healed my after 10 years of intense chronic symptoms, resistance and ego is to seek for cures outside ourselves when we know that everything we need is within, ego was me eating when I didn't feel hungry (my appetite shut down on the 2nd year of symptoms) and dry fasting releases stored emotions, trauma, tension, negative feelings etc, it's an ancient millennial practice, there are great resources out there, august dunning's book, michel deladoey and of course Filonov's two books. I also recommend the channel/website dry fasting club and the youtube channel fasting with trevor, he also had hardcore chronic illness for many years and he healed with dry fasting (both trevor and the dry fasting club guy), dude got so addicted that last year he was doing a 20 day dry fast every 2~3 months, can you believe that? Now think about that, if it was something dangerous he wouldn't do that every 60 days, I'll do my maintenance fast of 10~11 days every year now as an act of gratitude. There are many ways to skin a cat, I've done many dry fasts to get to this level, it's a gradual step climbing of course, I started with water fast and transitioned to dry fast, so I had a learning or adaptation curve, but it was definitely worth it.
Fasting is surrender, all the stuff that got stuck in your nervous system will come to the surface and you'll feel everything in its most pure, subtle way, you're healing at the most deep level when you're fasting, it's actually a form of ego death, for me, even doing IF in 2017~2018 was difficult (I thought IF would be enough...) because before my illness I was a gym rat, and an ectomorph so skipping a meal would kill me, I thought I was catabolizing, but my body was sending a clear message, me continuing to eating was the resistance, I thought my blood sugar would drop and I would faint, nothing could be further from the truth lol, humans before agriculture didn't eat every 2 hours, we didn't have fridge and we had to hunt our prey, so we would fast for many days, fasting is actually natural and very healthy, the whole fasting literature stresses how animals fast (dry!) when they get sick or ill, nature has been showing us the way forever but we've been brainwashed into thinking we need something outside of ourselves. Fasting (particularly dry) follows all the fundamentals of a Mindbody treatment and healing, when we reach a fasted state and go many days without eating/drinking we tap into our inner healer, the body starts multiple process of cleansing, detox, neurogenesis, neuroplasticity, autophagy, repair, RESET, this is the best way, we reset our bodies to to the cellular quantum level, and it's a beautiful thing, for me it was DRY FASTING first, then the rest (somatic tracking/somatic experience, bioenergetics, TRE, meditation, raw journaling, breathwork, brain rewiring etc etc, all those things work and are wonderful, but nothing trumps dry fasting, the miraculous way)

It was not the fasting that "healed" you physically and emotionally. It was your thoughts in general and your thoughts about the fasting.. It's totally unnecessary to follow any protocol, much less such an extreme, obsessive one (which is yet another defense and another form of resistance dressed up as a "treatment". Orthorexia is a huge problem now in society, even in males. Dr. Sarno is probably rolling over in his grave at the moment, and it's s a pity that all of these forms of "trying" have infected the mind body world. tools can easily turn into traps. Even if one were to just use this as a "tool" , the average person who has responsibilities, children. jobs, ,menopause etc etc etc, would only be adding more stress and resistance into their life. Not everyone can be a Tim Ferris bro and follow this lifestyle, nor should they. Nor is it remotely necessary. If you love it, knock yourself out, but for the average person this sounds about as enjoyable as living in North Korea, and it is NOT the "cure" for TMS. TMS means that there's nothing wrong with you to begin with. Tms is not cancer or epilepsy or diabetes or schizophrenia etc. , so it's a straw man argument. No need to extol the virtues of it. Someone with tms symptoms, neither has a disease pathology, nor are they damaged or less whole as a person because of past trauma. Emotional healing arises with acceptance and allowing and you don't need to fast in order to allow or to get our repression mode. Diets in particular become methods of coping and controlling so I think it's important to caution TMSers reading here.

 

[Mala]

Very interesting discussing here.

Fasting does have its benefits as do certain diets. BUT @miffybunny has got a point in that these may be detrimental to recovery especially for many TMSers as they could be fuelling more obsession & preoccupation in people who are already struggling. Especially when done to an extreme degree.

It's not that fasting & diet do not have a role in our overall well being but excessive focus on various diets, fasting, exercise etc. can lead to disordered eating, nutritional deficiencies & other mental health issues.

I come from a culture of fasting. I have been fasting every Monday since I was 16 & occasionally during some religious festivals. It simply makes sense to me.

Food is a big part of our lives. It should be enjoyed, it needs to be understood. It's very personal & its also very social. To say that our ancestors ate a certain way & so we should eat the same way doesn't make sense because well they didn't live very long did they? To deprive oneself of the bounty of good food that is available to us is counter intuitive.

Do your own shopping, cook your own meals, eat seasonal, eat a varied diet, engage in all your senses, eat to get all your nutrients, eat in moderation.

Not extremism.