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Dr. Sarno has succeeded, but he shall not prevail.

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ezer said:
I am sorry guys but I don't buy it. Accepting the TMS diagnosis and venturing into the world won't do squat for somebody suffering from debilitating pelvic pain or fibromyalgia.

I know I was there.

It is only by expending on Sarno's concepts and practicing what is recommended by some of the coaches like Abigail or Monte that I finally improved. Those coaches learned themselves the hard way that accepting the diagnosis simply was not enough to heal. They themselves got inspired by authors like Eckhart Tolle or Alan Watts.
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"It is only by expending on Sarno's concepts and practicing what is recommended by some of the coaches like Abigail or Monte that I finally improved."


That is rather dogmatic don't you think? There are many that mention the proverbial "book cure" only. Many want to complicate healing by putting an overlay of new-age or complementary medicine on-top or around their Sarno, when Sarno says it's very simple--all you have to do is change your mind about where your pain emanates from--it comes from your mind and works its way ouward. There are just so many hours in a day, so why waste your time here handing out NOCEBOS about why Sarno doesn't work unless you combine him with Abigail+Monte+Eckhart+Alan--all of whom I am familiar with, seen in person, talked to or read. You can spend your entire life searching out Gurus to follow, or you can become your own Guru, get out of lotus pose and do a head or a handstand. For first-aid I keep Sarno in my medicine cabinet. There are just so many Gurus books, gatherings and websites you can attach yourself to before you become one of those zombies being lead around by your cell-phone walking in front of cars or off sub-way platforms.
 
pspa said:
I am the one suggesting we embrace all in the mind-body field whose teachings may resonate with and help people, and not attack them for having a different perspective. And I am the one being divisive? Not.
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Are you sure?
 
Tennis Tom said:
That is rather dogmatic don't you think? There are many that mention the proverbial "book cure" only.
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Oh please! Show me one patient that suffered from debilitating fibromyalgia and that was cured by reading HBP.
 
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ezer said:
Oh please! Show me one patient that suffered from debilitating fibromyalgia and that was cured by reading HBP.
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I never said fibro, it is the most extreme form of TMS, I was referring to other symptoms. Not everyone with TMS gets fibro.
 
Tennis Tom said:
I never said fibro, it is the most extreme form of TMS, I was referring to other symptoms. Not everyone with TMS gets fibro.
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So what is a person suffering from fibro or severe pelvic pain ought to do when reading HBP and accepting the TMS diagnostic fails to work? (You do realize that pelvic pain is often present in people that suffered from sexual abuse or molestation, heavy stuff).

Why not give alternate methods a try such as what Monte or Abigail teach? Or Trauma Release Exercise. Why are you so dismissive of Watts or Tolle if it helps severe cases of TMS?
 
Don't lay a guilt trip on me. Dr. Sarno says if reading his books doesn't help see a TMS therapist. I have often recommended Abigail Steidly who specializes in TMS pelvic pain to those who come here. Don't try to make me look like I'm insensitive to people who have suffered sexual abuse. Do not put words in my mouth, I said nothing dismissive about Echard Tolle and have attended conferences where he was the keynote speaker. You are looking for a fight, I'm not going to waste my time on an internet pissing match with you, look for your fight elsewhere. If Dr. Sarno does not have your answers why do you waste your time here and place doubt in his theory in the minds of others. Go argue at Monte's site or Abigail's site or Watt's site, I'm sure there are others who want to distract from their pain with an internet pissing match at other sites. My posts are all positive with TMS solutions, you're a downer, I'm done with you.
 
Tennis Tom said:
Don't lay a guilt trip on me. Dr. Sarno says if reading his books doesn't help see a TMS therapist. I have often recommended Abigail Steidly who specializes in TMS pelvic pain to those who come here. Don't try to make me look like I'm insensitive to people who have suffered sexual abuse. Do not put words in my mouth, I said nothing dismissive about Echard Tolle and have attended conferences where he was the keynote speaker. You are looking for a fight, I'm not going to waste my time on an internet pissing match with you, look for your fight elsewhere. If Dr. Sarno does not have your answers why do you waste your time here and place doubt in his theory in the minds of others. Go argue at Monte's site or Abigail's site or Watt's site, I'm sure there are others who want to distract from their pain with an internet pissing match at other sites. My posts are all positive with TMS solutions, you're a downer, I'm done with you.
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Not sure I understand. You said first that all you need is Sarno and the rest including Abigail is new age nonsense. But now you recommend her.

You wrote that Sarno advises to see a TMS therapist. Do you think it is the answer to pelvic pain or fibromyalgia?
For the record, I had many sessions (24) with one. Completely useless unfortunately.
 
No, BeWell, it's not "medical reality," it's not gospel, it's a theory. Once again, to quote the moderator of the "other" forum" who by the way is very much a Sarno believer but has the wisdom to see the broader context:

"None of the details of Dr. Sarno's theory really matter. Much of it can be viewed metaphorically. Is there really a "pool of unconscious rage"? Is our brain really trying to "distract" us? Is the mechanism simply "oxygen deprivation"? Who knows."

To analogize to religion, one can have absolute faith in one's own religion without needing to denigrate others' religions, or needing to prove theirs is the only true one (i.e., proselytize). A shared belief in God/the divine is more important than the details. That's why, for the most part anyhow, even devout people of different faiths can live side by side in harmony, and even marry each other.

A belief in a psychogenic cause for symptoms is far more important than fighting about whose specific implementation/theory is right.

I hate to see this forum degenerate into the type of ad hominem attacks just made on Ezer, or to infighting about whether Dr. Sarno's ideas are the one true way. It doesn't help anyone.
 
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BeWell said:
I am sorry, for I never meant to put my own views in this forum, to instigate or agitate people who were here before me, against one another.
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You weren't to know the sometimes embittered backstory of the odd scuffle here or there (tmshelp). I can only speak for myself but as a tms old timer I sometimes join the fray in the hopes of finding peace and/or compromise. These hot threads can be distressing and confusing for people especially newcomers.

BeWell said:
The pain that unites everyone in this forum, or other forums that imploded as pspa mentioned, comes from one source. Unconscious emotions the mind decides to create a distraction to shield us from.

Is there disagreement about that? I don't think so.

Dr. Sarno integrated studies from pioneers in medicine and psychology and is the first to fully understand the common ailments are not exacerbated by existing structural abnormalities or by learned neural abnormalities, but are induced by psychological tension in the unconscious mind.

Dr. Sarno blames Doctors for contributing and amplifying these epidemics.

With respect to all those who cite Dr. Sarno in their own efforts to heal, or enrich themselves, I agree with Tennis Tom it confuses people to overlay the foundation of Dr. Sarno's correct diagnosis with feel good mantras or incredibly confusing feel bad ideas there are brain structural neural abnormalities that create pain.

The pain is a decision of the mind which orders the brain and the body to enact a process which creates a symptom(s) for the purpose of distraction from uncomfortable unconscious emotions.

This is not divisive! It is medical reality.
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Hand on heart I am sure most people agree and accept emotional causes, and I am equally sure everyone embraces the healing methods recommended by Sarno initially. People only start going widdershins when it doesn't help at all and after being on both forums for years I've witnessed and corresponded with many people who are simply at the end of their rope. I was one of them. Must we really be judged so harshly for seeking remedy and relief from more expansive understandings? Especially if these ways and means enable us to re-enter the emotional arena with greater forbearance.

All of us are well served by engaging in deeper listening. When someone has seen tms therapists and journalled and read the ink off Sarno and Steve O and still not healed what are they to do?

These are sincere questions.
I appreciate your words from our exchange yesterday and hope we can build more on them for the benefit of those who are desperate.
 
Have you actually read Howard Schubiner's book? Have you ever spoken to him? I will say it this one last time: he believes completely in psychogenic causes, and I feel you are doing him a great disservice by mischaracterizing him as somehow a structuralist. In other words, you are taking on a straw man here.

PS and if you want to help people don't tell them they are doomed unless they see the light, even if Dr. Sarno said it. Encourage them.
 
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"The most important things for you to realize is your pain (and any other Mind Body Syndrome symptoms) is real; that emotions are very powerful forces that can cause physical symptoms."
 
Hang in there BeWell, I'm rootin' for you! Your thoughts on "CONFIDENCE" in the TMS theory are in line with what the Good Doctor found "cured" thousands of sufferers of their psychosomatic pain in his fifty years of clinical practice--that's not theory--that's medical fact that medicine chooses to ignore. Dr. Sarno's files are full of people who were made well, after he undid the NOCEBOS laid on them by the current dismal practices of allopathic medicine. You were speaking generally, with passion and not singling out any one person. Where you unfortunately got blindsided was by mentioning anything to do with the Holy Bible. On internet forums that makes you fair game for the nattering nabobs of negativity to personally attack you, attempting to discredit anything you say afterwards--not me though.

For those who say Tolle, Watts, or Monte Hueftle , (who is 100 percent Sarno/TMS, last time I read his book), "healed" them, please come forth and quote the words, sentences, or paragraphs that resonated, turning your mind upside down, throwing away your crutches to jog down your new found path. The proof is in the pudding, show us the words that cured you! Or quit knocking those who have the courage to speak their words.

BeWell, don't feel you've said anything wrong, continue expressing your heart-felt TMS thoughts--you've been blindsided. It's like you're driving down the road, and someone brake-checks you, and then blames you in an insurance scam.
 
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